jerrold and 911. and i've also written a lot of essays and nonfiction for things like men's journal and mcsweeney's. and and i teach at california of the arts, which i strongly recommend people find out about art courses and programs and readings. but i love this subject and in part because when i teach my students, i really encourage them to be men and women of letters. you know, and to think about about what that means you know, because a lot of the stories, if you've got skills as a novelist i think it carries over into work of nonfiction. i also think it improves poetry out of a sense of narrative. if you're a poet, it helps with language, you know, in the other disciplines. but i'm so happy. be with these two writers, you know, in talking about, i guess, what we were talking about is how do you when it's right to write something as fiction or ndsay, you had some thoughts about that too. if you want to kick us off here. sure. i think for me, it kind of comes down to voice and when i start somethin