standing by with us is gerard cassidy of rbc, sonali basak as well. succession planning. the news and how you are reacting to that. gerard: it was not too surprising. daniel pinto, when he was moved over to this officer rowley year ago from the head of -- office role a year ago, he was never considered the heir apparent. they were the leading horses. now jen will be the chief operating officer. lake runs the largest division, the consumer banking business. a couple of the other executives heading up the commercial investment bank will maybe consider heir apparents as well. jonathan: just getting wells fargo so hold on a second. i want to cross over from manus cranny. manus: a beat for wells fargo. the estimate out there was for 11.7. it's about reporting in the first series of rate cuts we have seen for five years. always an interesting one at $1.21 billion. that is there net charge-offs. the guidance for 2025 for net interest income is expected to be about 1% to 3% above 2024. that is a comfortable beat on the net interest outcome at wells fargo and

thank you, everybody. >> gerard cassidy, rbc. >> it's still probably jp morgan.the bank index, it is only four years that it outperformed the bank index. it's just a function -- just a better-managed bank. and i think generally speaking, the lighter regulation is probably more beneficial for smaller banks. jp morgan knows how to work in any kind of environment. but broadly speaking, i still think having the flexibility in this balance sheet is where you really want to be. >> regional banks act horrible. if you were getting excited about the potential for m&a. the market is telling you, that's not it. as far as the big money centers again. i say to might. it's kind of laughable. at this. maybe we're late cycle in the economy. you want to roll back regulation. go back to 2018. a bunch of the regulation that was rolled back were the very thing that failed a lot of regional banks. to me, the market. telling you, don't expect a lot of deregulation any time soon. >> by the way, we'll have more on the results of the banks, jp morgan and others tomorrow. we'll break it d

here to break it down, gerard cassidy. it is like christmas in january.reflections so far? >> you said it very well. it feels like christmas in january and you are right, the numbers are quite good. more importantly, carl, it is the outlook that they gave. jpmorgan lifted their income guidance for the year. you also saw that with wells fargo. citigroup's expense number came in a little lower than expected. a little better than expected, so not only did we see good numbers in the fourth quarter, the banking numbers of course were strong in trading, but the guidance going forward and i think sara touched on it with small business optimism index, we are setting up really well for the banks in 2025. >> are you getting a sense of some of these names getting expensive? >> carl, that is fair. particularly with jpmorgan chase. when you look at trading for evaluation and the post- financial crisis because the world has changed since the crisis at the banks, when you look at the top 20 banks trading on that two point tangible, 1.7 times tangible, so there is room o