together is that we just didn't know or i didn't have a i think anybody had an appreciation for frank carlucci which is why i, i brought let's continue this fun so okay yeah celebrate frank lucy blame frank carlucci. he was responsible -- cheney in early on. it was really don rumsfeld, who i don't think he was. but but then you go from there, and this is one of my favorites in the story. so you ingrain that office, and then he's recruited to omb. right. just imagine everybody. the phone rings and who's on the other end of the line. it's is george shultz right? and he says, i'd like you to come. to omb to be my deputy. mm. and then what happens next? you end up working for shultz. he's he's for weinberger. shultz gets pulled into treasury, right? and then he ends up working for wal-mart. yeah. who? he had met at ohio, actually, because, you know, weinberger was with reagan. he got into a little spat with then-governor reagan right at. but he developed gloss over them. yeah. where you get that? yeah. i mean, the context here governor reagan is fighting a particular program when he wants kill a p

what does republican frank carlucci do now?e actually, before -- there was discussion whether or not he could take on a more political post. the view was that it was not going to work. guest: right. he comments that carter really likes him and wanting to work at the state department. but he laughs at them and says there is no way i'm going to get confirmed at the state department. so he goes and works for turner at the agency for a couple of years under president carter. host: president carter has a great story in the book because it wasn't his first time interacting with president carter so not only did he deny governor reagan, he also challenged governor carter when he was working as a deputy with weinberger. give us a feel -- they were slightly off. guest: they were wrong and he admits it. and i believe it was -- i think you have it in front of you but it was a head start program. go ahead. yes. host: they were going to tell carter that we are going to override your veto and push the program in. and weinberger is hesitating