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the mp for burnley, oliver ryan, has become the second to be suspended from the labour parliamentary partylth minister at the weekend and suspended from the party over messages he sent to the same group. joe pike is live in denton for us now. what has been the response to all the controversy where you are? it is re the controversy where you are? it 3 pretty astonishing, quite the controversy where you are? it 1 pretty astonishing, quite how many political careers have been curtailed by one single whatsapp group. it was set up to help local campaigners here, coordinate their activity but it seems to be a forum for jokes and activity but it seems to be a forum forjokes and jibes. there are offensive and some appear to be racist and offensive. so far it has led to one minister being sacked, a second being suspended and three local councillors being police! raids at dawn. ministers want to show you that they are visibly muscular when dealing with illegal immigration. you're under arrest on suspicion... folk in government know they have people to convince, we could have come to anywhere in the

he is of cause apologised for those comments but he was suspended from the parliamentary labour partyew gwynne and was indeed very active on this whatsapp group, whether it is going to suffer the same fate. he is not a minister of course so we can't be sacked from the ministerial position but he could be suspended from the labour party. using the chief whip later on today. the chief whip later on today. the chief whip later on today. the chief whip will then take a whip us —— will take a view as to what to do. 0liver ryan, his defence is to say he would not have made those comments now he is an mp but in addition to that he shouldn't perhaps call these comments out sooner. the comments he's made from what and has sacked and oliver ryan has deceived the chief whip. but there are rules and the code of ties—e are rules as! ties "as “5 in the ties—e are rules an;;a ties "as “5 in the labour thee as j? sea the "as a? in the labour party and conduct in the labour party and anyone this group conduct in the labour party and anyone that is group conduct in the labour party and anyone that is t

the labour party before the original story in terms of oliver ryan, the second mp, he is not a government minister, he doesn't have a ministerial if they were so inclined. as well, from the parliamentaryparty. is deciding to do.

is very difficult for two quick reasons politically, because there will be some in the parliamentary labour party in the grassroots party who will be very, very worried about this. it's also difficult from a policy point of view, because you want to encourage people back into work, but you don't want to force people into work who can't work. you don't want people ending up on the streets. >> and alice, in my experience and i do have some experience with this, i used to be a social security minister. some of the problems are practical. so for instance, a doctor does not particularly want to refuse his or her patient a sick note. if that patient comes to that person, they have to maintain a relationship. so then you try establishing panels of doctors, but that becomes very bureaucratic. and anyway, where do you find all these doctors from who are going to be on the panels? do you do you think rachel reeves has any prospect of success here? >> i think it's a difficult one, but there are 4 million people currently on sickness benefits. that's up from 1 million since 2019 to the tune of about 48 billi

i mean, i suppose this starts with the fact that within the parliamentary labour party, you're about son carrying the flag for people who've gone to reform from laboun who've gone to reform from labour, who believe in the country, who didn't favour the european union, have doubts about net zero, and actually stand up for your base vote. >> i think that's a bit extreme in terms of the vote to leave the european union. you're pretty close to being right in terms of representing the traditional labour base. the number of labour mps who basically represent the skilled and unskilled white working class has diminished, but it is still there, genuinely there, although a lot smaller than it used to be. >> but this has made room for nigel and indeed for the conservatives, because quite a lot of voters. in 2019, ex—labour voters voted conservative and then in 2024 seemed to vote to reform. so part of the issue for both the conservatives and reform is this old labour vote, which, as i say, i think you do represent, but has been less fashionable, let's put it that way. >> i agree with that. and t

. >> so this goes back to an all party parliamentary group definition of islamophobia, which long before the labour was in government, they adopted. and but the question is, will the government now adopt this definition? and if so, what are the ramifications? and angela rayner has this council they're going to consult on it. dominic grieve, the former tory mp, he is going to be one of the figures involved apparently. and i think where the debate is, is if you go back to the definition from this all party parliamentary group, at the time, there were warnings that the definition was far too broad and it would go beyond just stopping muslim hate speech and trying to clamp down on this, and trying to clamp down on this, and could actually kerb freedom of speech and become a de facto blasphemy law that therefore you couldn't really criticise religion or the muslim faith, even when it is more of a freedom of speech angle, as opposed to something that you could say is, you know, hate speech towards someone. and so if angela rayner was to bring a definition and it's not clear if it would be the definition