and sitting across the table from them, sergey lavrov, the russian foreign minister, and yuri ushakover to president putin. now, what was notablejust as much for who was there was, of course, who was not. the ukrainians have not been invited. that was a question that i shouted to mr rubio while we were still in the room. is the us sidelining ukraine, mr secretary? what concessions will there be asked of russia, mr secretary? now he didn't answer those. it was clear at that point i think the meeting was going to last some hours and take up the best part of the day before both sides were going to give their own accounts, their own narratives of the way the meeting had gone. tom bateman in riyadh there. in a moment we'll speak to our our russia editor steve rosenberg, but first let's go to ukraine correspondentjames waterhouse in kyiv. james, in moscow, president vioscow, bleaseé president vioscn be bleaseé president vioscn be and bleaseé of this russia.?-.-, ,. * saudi yet men victory have glee; eff—222777 have gai sta -e. fizz: :——7——— have gai sta-e. e to é?:——f—r— talks the tali is:he

and one of the ones who's speaking is one of their chief negotiators, yuri ushakov, who is also a senior kremlin aide. and he used the russian words to describe it, which means not bad. that's how the russians are describing it. ushakov saying that all of the serious questions between the two countries, between the u.s. and russia, were discussed at that meeting. he also says that it's not clear that any headway was made on any of those topics. but he does say at least the two sides talked about it. so it seems as though it was a very open discussion. the other big thing, of course, that everybody is asking is whether or not any headway was made on a direct, face to face meeting between president trump and the russian president, vladimir putin. and on that, the chief negotiator for the russians, saying that it's not clear whether such a. week. so that was something that was floated. but the russians are saying they don't necessarily believe that that is going to be the case. so we're waiting to get more information. but certainly the russians are saying that this happened in a very const

behind them and on the tables were the russian delegation, sergey lavrov, the foreign minister, and yuri ushakov, one of the key aides to vladimir putin in the kremlin sitting, you know, just a metre and a half across the table from the us delegation, i asked the question of mr rubio when i was in the room, what concessions were being asked of russia? and also, were they sidelining the ukrainians? he didn't answer that. now, we expect that the meeting itself might last several hours. in fact, possibly the best part of the day here in riyadh. and, you know, as you've been hearing, we have heard from the russians that they see this or at least framing this as the sort of restart of normalised relations with the united states. as for the americans, they're trying to play down expectations that this is any sort of formal start of negotiations. i think a more realistic outcome will be their attempts to try to secure and even potentially fix a date for a summit between president trump and putin. and, tom, you're travelling with the us delegation. do we have any time frame on when that might happen? we

. >> peter lavrov, president yury ushakov. >> the russians. >> are calling these first. >> u.s. talks a huge accomplishment after years of hostility. officials from both sides now chatting across a saudi negotiating table. the u.s. says it wanted to see how serious the kremlin is about ending its brutal ukraine war. >> i came away today convinced that they. >> are. >> willing to begin to engage in a serious process to determine how and how quickly and through what mechanism can end be brought to this war, whether we can ultimately reach that outcome will obviously depend on every side in this conflict. willingness to to agree to certain things. >> withdrawal. for the. >> past three years, russia has been pounding the front lines across ukraine, seizing territory in a full scale invasion estimated to have inflicted hundreds of thousands of casualties on both sides. despite tough sanctions, though and steep losses, the kremlin has shown little sign of wavering. even now, briefing that the war is just one issue. along with restoring economic ties in the possible normalization of re

yesterday, one of the main negotiators, yury ushakov when he landed in saudi arabia, he was asked what the goals of these negotiations are, and he said that it was clearly a normalization of the relations between russia and the united states. now, of course, that could take a while, but that for the russians, indicates that the ukraine war is part of it. of course, a meeting between donald trump, between the president and the president of russia, vladimir putin, also very important for them. but they also want sanctions relief, and they also want a normalization of diplomatic and economic relations between the u.s. and russia. kayla. >> we will see whether the needle moved on any of those items during their multiple hours of negotiations in riyadh. fred pleitgen in moscow. fred, thank you. it is time now for sports. it will be team usa versus team canada in the championship game of hockey's four nations face-off. carolyn manno has this morning's cnn sports update. good morning carolyn. good morning kayla. >> so round one of the usa canada. >> rivalry was. electric this past saturday. >

but i think, you know, if you look directly at what the russian representative yury ushakov, who is a very experienced diplomat, was saying, you would have known right from the beginning that the primary thing that they wanted to do, the russians, was to to restore normal relations with the united states. and then ukraine is down in second place. i think it's really important. this is where it gets really complicated. the way the united states looks at it and it's being defined right now, is we've got to get back in communication. the previous administration, biden had no communication with the russians. ergo, we have to get back to talking. the russians look at this as not just talking. the mere fact that they are meeting. the mere fact that they are going to talk is hugely important for the kremlin, because it means russia is back on the stage. they're already talking about, you know, putting ambassadors back into the embassies, talking. et cetera. this is exactly what putin wants. the end of isolation and the beginning of bringing russia back and bringing putin back onto the world

. >> studied lavrov, president yury ushakov. >> the russians are calling these first u.s. talks a huge accomplishment after years of hostility. officials from both sides now chatting. >> across a saudi. >> negotiating table. the u.s. says it wanted to see. how serious the kremlin is. >> about ending. >> its brutal ukraine war. >> i came away today convinced that they are willing to begin to engage in a serious process to determine how and how quickly and through what mechanism can end be brought to this war, whether we can ultimately reach that outcome will obviously depend on every side in this conflict. willingness to to agree to certain things. >> withdrawal. >> for the past three years, russia has been pounding the front lines across ukraine. seizing territory in a full scale invasion. estimated to have inflicted hundreds. >> of thousands of casualties. >> on both sides. despite tough sanctions, though and steep losses, the kremlin has shown. >> little sign. >> of wavering. >> even now. >> briefing that the war is just one issue. >> along with restoring economic. >> ti

russian side, we know that russian foreign minister sergey lavrov, as well as presidential aide yuri ushakov, are going to be taking part. from the point of view of moscow now, as you mentioned, who is not there? ukraine. and that has caused a lot of consternation among those in kyiv, but also throughout europe. many of these members and united states allies who have been really putting forward a united front in how they are approaching the war between ukraine and russia. as you mentioned as well, they are going to be having an emergency meeting in paris today to discuss this. but i do want you as well to listen to what we heard from rubio yesterday. he tried to tamp down some of these concerns and argue that ukraine is going to have a big role in these talks, as will europe. take a listen. >> if it's real negotiations and we're not there yet. but if that were to happen, ukraine will have to be involved because they're the ones that were invaded and the europeans will have to be involved because they have sanctions on putin and russia as well. and they've contributed to this effort. we're ju

. >> yury ushakov the russians are calling these first u.s. a huge accomplishment after years of hostility. officials from both sides now chatting. >> across a. >> saudi negotiating table. the u.s. says it wanted to see how serious the kremlin is about ending its brutal ukraine war. >> i came away today convinced that they are willing to begin to engage in a serious process to determine how and how quickly and through what mechanism can end be brought to this war, whether we can ultimately reach that outcome will obviously depend on every side in this conflict. willingness to to agree to certain things. >> we're still. >> not. for the past three years, russia has been pounding the front lines across ukraine. seizing territory and a full scale invasion. estimated to have inflicted hundreds. >> of thousands of casualties. >> on both sides. despite tough sanctions, though, and. steep losses, the kremlin has shown little. sign of wavering. even now, briefing that the war is just one issue. along with. >> restoring economic ties. >> in the possible

we have that russian foreign minister sergey lavrov and presidential aide yuri ushakov are going to be there, representing the talks from vladimir putin's side of all of this. now, where does saudi arabia come into all of this? obviously, this meeting is being held in riyadh. we are told by a senior saudi official that they plan to have some sort of mediation role. i would note, of course, that they have been crucial. the saudis in the negotiations and talks in the middle east as well. and that conversation around ending the war between israel and hamas. but we also know that they were crucial. and wyckoff told me this himself, that they were crucial in helping secure the release of american prisoner marc fogel, who was held in russia. he said that a lot of the saudis, particularly crown prince mohammed bin salman, was very crucial and instrumental in those discussions. but john, who will not be there, that is the ukrainians. and of course, that is causing a lot of consternation, both in kyiv but also throughout europe, which are really worried about not having a seat at the table duri

actually tomorrow at the table are the russian side, led by sergey lavrov, the foreign minister, and yuri ushakov, who is a top aide to vladimir putin, who used to be an ambassador to the united states. on the american side, secretary rubio, as you mentioned. but he'll also be joined by the national security adviser, mike wallace, and the middle east envoy, steve witkoff, who is getting more and more, more and more involved in these ukraine talks because he's getting closer, uh, to the saudis, the saudis, for their part, they're not just hosting. they're going to have a role in this as well. they are they are mediating. so we can expect to see a senior, a senior team from the saudis as well. but the administration is saying these are very preliminary talks. this is why the ukrainians are not here. they have to get the ball rolling with the russians. eventually, they'll get to a point where the ukrainians, they hope, will also be at the table. so this is just the beginning. rubio saying that it's going to take weeks to figure out whether these talks are going anywhere, whether the russians are ser

those three americans i mentioned across the table from the foreign minister, sergey lavrov, and yuri ushakov who is a presidential aide. but this is as much about who is at the table as who is not. wolf, the ukrainians, most notably, are not. we heard from president zelenskyy earlier today saying quite angrily, frustrated that he hadn't been told about this meeting, saying that nothing will be decided about ukraine without them there and then. the europeans aren't there either. and we heard from trump's ukraine envoy keith kellogg, just a few days ago, saying that he doesn't believe that the europeans should be at the table. now, that was softened a little bit, walked back a little bit by the secretary of state, marco rubio. here's what he had to say yesterday. >> if it's real negotiations and we're not there yet. but if that were to happen, ukraine will have to be involved because they're the ones that were invaded and the europeans will have to be involved because they have sanctions on putin and russia as well. and they have contributed to this effort. we're just not there yet. >> the eur

from the russia side, we know that russian foreign minister sergey lavrov and presidential aide yuri ushakov will also be there. you know, the counterparts to the u.s. delegation now, as you mentioned, kate, who won't be there, that is ukraine, which has caused a ton of consternation among people, both in kyiv, but also among a lot of the united states top european allies. the president, donald trump, was asked about this directly yesterday, saying, does ukraine have a seat at this table? will they be part of this negotiations? listen to what he said. >> do you expect. >> zelenskyy to be involved. in these conversations? >> what will his. >> role be? i do. he will be involved. >> pete muntean on your timing of your meeting with putin in saudi arabia? >> no, there's no time set, but it could be very soon. >> like this this month. >> or it will be soon. we'll see what happens. >> now, that last part there, kate, is obviously so crucial. when will this meeting between president donald trump himself and vladimir putin take place? i am told that how these negotiations go tomorrow in riyadh will r

i know one of the russian, uh, likely delegates, yuri ushakov. um, i worked with him when he was russian ambassador in washington. he's a capable diplomat. putin loyalist. but he's not. he's no fool. uh, he will push hard for a bad deal for the united states, and we shouldn't take it. we need to push back. and we have cards to play. the russians are not winning the war by all that much. they're pushing back the ukrainians, but only slowly and at a very high price. the ukrainians are fighting on. we need to help the ukrainians, and we need to keep the pressure on the russians so that our hand is strengthened. president trump says he likes winning, and a win is possible if we show the stomach to get past what is going to be a very rough session with the russians. >> ambassador daniel fried, i love hearing from you. thank you so much, and thanks for taking the time. i know you're getting ready to board a flight. you're in a busy airport right now, so safe travels. >> headed to europe for talks about this very subject. >> okay. we'd love to talk to y

. >> so i have negotiated with sergey lavrov and yuri ushakov sitting right next to him for many years. i would say two things. one, they're not going to give anything in the beginning, and they're going to stake out maximalist positions. and the american strategy should therefore not be to respond to those. number two, to the best of my knowledge, i've seen absolutely no evidence that putin is prepared to provide any concessions, and instead he just waits for us to keep adding concessions. right. so no membership to nato for ukraine. give territory. there are now reports saying that we're going to lift sanctions. we are negotiating with ourselves while they just sit on the other side and wait for us to give more. and so i think they have to change their thinking about this, and they have to begin to say what russia needs to do and what russia needs to concede in order to start this peaceful negotiation. if it's all concessions on the ukrainian side or the western side, this will lead to failure. >> yeah, that has been the piece of the conversation that's missing many asking the questi

witkoff, president trump's envoy to the region, mike waltz, national security adviser. and yuri ushakovw, just a metre and a half what concessions were being asked of russia? he didn't answer that. last several hours. framing this as the sort of restart of normalised relations start of negotiations. to try to secure and even potentially fix that they say that they, see this as a first step wants to or expects to even have a summit with mr putin. but of course, it is the details being hammered out here. that might be. putin himself has said he zelefns ky. 77 zelefns ky. at 77 zelefnsky. at the zeleznsky. at the same the subject to serious time, the subject is to serious considering the discussion, considering the reality that speaks to the of ’ wofichallenging possibility of challenging the legitimacy of itself. also "’.;ls'5’;.;ia' w w ,,,,, w also said ukraine 222222 also said ukraine was within. its rights tgjgin. th2 2 22 2 2 72 2 but translation: this is right of any th2 22v2r2ig2 rig2t—2f 22:2 2 no one can th2 22v2r2ig2 rig2t—2f 222 2 no one can dictate country. no one can dictate

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