please welcome to the program matthew desmond. sir!here. >> jon: let me say this, fabulous book, filled with such interesting research and unusual and i think really interesting ideas. i mean, does america require poverty to function in the way that we do? is it a requirement of our society? >> yeah, no, i don't think so. >> jon: is the system we run, do they require, and a capitalist system, people in poverty to function at maximum profit? >> i think a lot of us do benefit from poverty in ways we don't realize. the labor market, the housing market, we continue to have a government who gives the most to families that need the least by subsidizing affluence instead of fighting poverty. we continue to live segregated life spared a lot of us are connected to that problem, but it also means we are connected to the solution. i don't think we have to live with all of this poverty in america. >> jon: you say something in the book that blew my mind. which is, there is a part in there that you talk about the tax burden, and if we just collected