of course, we all believe in freedom as ayn rand noted in her puckish alley, if not trollish, lee titled book the virtue of selfishness. a lot of people look at obsession with your own liberty as selfish. and she tried to explain why. yeah, it is. and also that's great, but you can also frame the libertarian project as not not about liberty per se, but about the flipside of liberty, which is we are minimizing the areas in which anyone else is justified in using violent force against you in those areas where no one is justified in using it, that is area of your liberty. and i found that it's been rhetorically effective way to explain what what are you guys all about? what is it you want while we want human social relations to be based the least possible, they can be on violence. and some of us think that means eliminating it perhaps entirely, except for in self-defense, something we need a little more. i will stop ranting now and let let jean begin a conversation. you you pick up the story with the you know in the post war era and you know you said the the original proto libertarian movem