stagnation, investors and bond buyers. you hear corporate america has made the shift, preparing for a growing america again. not one in stagnation. they are going to take advantage of the growth and the stimulus. jonathan: the difference this time around and what everybody is thinking about the moment the , two americas levering up. -- at the same time -- levering up at the same time. one is corporate america, and the other is the sovereign at the same time. it could be a toxic mix. couldn't it? bob: ultimately, it could end bad. i think that some of the angst coming out of the tweets, at a time borrowing is going to go up, why would you want borrowing rate to go up? the other way to look at it is the opportunity is now. you still are at relatively low levels of interest rates. there is plentiful liquidity. you are having structural reform through taxes. , youill get a fiscal spend