that doesn't want their company hocked to the gills, it's for us. >> so it's a big ad why to sell to berkshire. >> it's an ad why people who don't like a lot of debt should sell to berkshire. if you want the best price, you probably get it by auctioning it off to somebody who's going to borrow as much as they can. there's nothing wrong with that. but if they don't want that we're a good place to call. >> all right. let's talk about what you had to say about investment bankers. one of the comments you made is that investment bankers being paid as they are for action constantly urge acquirers to pay 20% to 50% premiums over market price for publicly held businesses. you've had thoughts on investment bankers in the past. you don't necessarily always listen to their opinions. in fact you rarely listen to their opinions. >> they are in the business of selling companies. and therefore they see the virtues of people buying and selling them. they're very smart people. sometimes they can...