it's interesting that they would float something so serious. >> yeah. in the interview -- i'll put it up on the screen, he also told you this -- he said, no one has credibly shown any harm to national security. the president himself admitted both that changes are necessary and that he is certain the debate my actions started will make us stronger. although the president in that long interview in your magazine did say there was major damage to national security. >> he basically said that there was more damage than good that came out of it. but he has, as mr. snowden is saying, said that it has provoked a debate that has been useful in this country. and what snowden said to me was, i've brought the american public to the table. and he also said, if in fact he's smeared and his reputation is ruined, he said, if i end up in a ditch at the end of the day and reform comes out of this, it

this is the world he exists in. and he's online a lot. >> mike rogers is a former fbi agent, chairman of the house intelligence committee. for him to suggest that snowden may have been an agent working for russian intelligence from the very beginning, he must have some inkling of evidence to back that up, i suspect? >> yeah, that's why i think it's important -- this is someone with a very important title who's making these allegations. and he talked about clues, unspecified clues. i called his office to see if i could get him to explain a little bit more and he didn't want to discuss it. he wouldn't comment further. but what he is saying is not only denied by snowden, it also is contradicted by several investigations, the fbi's been investigating and the nsa's been investigating. and the cia has been investigating. they've all been looking for the possibility that snowden's working with foreign governments. and at the moment, none of them have found evidence. >> were you surprised...

>> were you surprised that dianne feinstein sort of said, i can't rule that out? she's the chair of the senate intelligence committee. >> yes. in some ways, though, when i called her office, they basically said she was just asking questions. they're not really saying she's standing by this. in some way, she was being polite and saying, who knows? it's interesting that they would float something so serious. >> yeah. in the interview -- i'll put it up on the screen, he also told you this -- he said, no one has