that would be trying to help the other side, right? it's sort of stating the obvious, isn't it? >> what i'm suggesting is that the word, "hack" in these circumstances conflates two different things -- >> you're talking about voting machine hacks and birth and death records. i'm just making it more simply. did they try to influence the election to help trump? >> try to influence by releasing propaganda, disinformation? who knows, maybe. they release it all the time about the pope, about jews. they are -- they are shameless about how much information they put out and how they tilt it toward anybody that they don't like for any reason. it's a very nasty national characteristic that the russians push on, with this disinformation. >> so are you worried with -- the bigger picture of what trump's trying to do here, right, so he is discrediting the cia, the statement put out by the transition team, i'll just read it, again. "these are the same people who said saddam hussein had weapons of...