i don't understand why a lack of decorum is entertainment. i don't even -- i don't get that. but in that sense, you know, donald trump is right on trend. >> well, and maybe the product of it -- i mean, he was really launched into his public career by his role as a reality tv star. >> right. >> your -- your differences with the president are manifest. there's one thing on which you agree, but maybe for different reasons. neer neither of you seem to like jeff sessions very much. you opposed his appointment to the federal bench when you were at the naacp. you were opposed to his appointment as attorney general. who say you now that he is in the cross hairs of the president? >> well, i feel for him and his position. i wouldn't wish that on any attorney general. i think he's being mishandled by his boss, and i think you know,