how early wednesday negative publicity about kirsten grind and where was that? i assume publicity includes press reports. >> so wamu had kind of a big blowup in 2004 there was similarly heard about, but what happened is they are poor -- he spoke a little bit about how they basically had no infrastructure on 12 different mortgage systems. well, all of that emerged in 2004 when they began basically trying to foreclose on homeowners who would actually pay their mortgage. and the reason they did that is because they literally forgot to tell someone to go up and the security boxes and pick up the homeowners checks. this is how bad it got. all the states started soon and come all the analyst started writing reports and these guys can't run a mortgage operation. this is what in fact finally forced kerry killinger to get a president and officer, which was