chelsea manning. he would be in an isolation cell for the rest of his life. no journalist to this day, 3.5 out, noter this came journalist has spoken to chelsea manning. no journalist has spoken to chelsea manning. not in four years. we know nothing. they will not. they are not allowed to speed her in prison. snowden had to be out of the country. he learned from that. he learns that you have to put out current documents. one reason and he was saying

of penalties -- >> snowden, i believe, he looked at these examples, he looked at chelsea manning, he looked at julian assange, and he realized that he had to be out of the country if he was going to put up this amount of information and be able to tell what he had done and why he had done it and to comment as he has been doing. 40 years ago, i was able to speak. i was out on bail throughout my trial. i was able to speak to demonstrations and lectures and this and that. there is not a chance in the world that snowden would have been allowed to do that. he knew it from looking at chelsea manning. he would be in an isolation cell for the rest of his life. no journalist to this day, 3.5 out, noter this came journalist has spoken to chelsea manning. no journalist has spoken to chelsea manning.

damn well, knowing ndam that that is not what we teach people. you are snowden's lawyer. what is your view? >> my view is that it speaks volumes that the only safe way to blow the whistle right now if you are a national security or intelligence and have that level of information, the only safe way is to blow the whistle from another country. that is a sorry state of affairs for this country to be in. whistleblowers, right after snowden revealed himself, they had a press conference to say that they understood why he had to go to another country to make those disclosures. of penalties -- >> snowden, i believe, he looked

point in my life? it made me realize that it took me back 40 years. i identify snowden. completely. i identify with chelsea manning, even with all the differences in our background and our personalities and whatever. i identify with her very strongly. they go over the same trajectory that i do. they did what i would have done. when it is patriots are traders, tors, i realize i have to explain why i am not a traitor. i've been saying for three years now that chelsea manning and now snowden are no more traders -- traitors and i am. and i am not. to make that very clear. it has taken me back 40 years. i got over fearing that question all the time. i feared it a lot at the beginning.