republican circles, saunders -- cumbersome michael grimm had a meeting. that might be the type of event that would cause that. does not seem like we're there yet. both sides going into this meeting sticking to their guns as if it were a week ago. gerri: what is interesting about this i think, and you mentioned this system is so eloquently, they have not been talking. maybe this is a breakthrough. it has really been both sides lined up facing each other and not having the secret negotiations that you normally expect. december ended january. they ended up working something