that includes the president's bill, which is being led by senator grassley, whi we mentioned we expect that out any minute but haven't seen it yet. the kuntz mclean bill, no other bill has 60 votes. there are small bipartisan groups meeting all across the senate and they're in such a tough position they don't want reporters saying who's meeting with who. it just shows what they're up against and they have not found a way to get 60 votes on anything. >> woodruff: so sounds like they're feeling pressure onse thes to get something done. it's pretty unusual to be in this open debate situation. >> incredibly unusual. i sat down with the senate historia for the most elucidatinconversation i had all day. she said our problem job is to look a precedent, but we're not