where we're yelling at each other. >> steve was not the world's greatest managers, in fact, he could have been one of the worst managers, always upending things, and throwing things into turmoil. this made great products. but it didn't make for a great management style. >> if you're good at everything, john abe he will is the new york bureau chief for wire.com and joins me to talk about this. >> nice to be here. >> and we're talking about the book. and i was commenting that you got the book on your ipad. so it's a full circle moment. >> absolutely. >> how this book is going to be distributed. but the book does tell a lot about steve jobs, a side of jobs that most of us didn't know. so what was most surprising to you? >> well, he was a famously secretive person. and he created a great company. he actually -- several great companies. i think the most poignant aspect of the book is his battle with cancer, his sort of refusal to come to grips with it in a precision, laser-like way that he...