that's probably the next step. >> let's go to nbc news tom costello. trying to trust the russians -- and we have been through it. i remember the space program they didn't tell us there was a human being until after he came back safely. how do we get the black box back before it's been tampered with? can they be tampered with? how do we get the truth? >> i'm sorry, i missed part of your earlier conversation with mick and john are. we are told the plane went down in rebel-held territory. if rebels are the chief suspects in this case it is hard to believe they will be object sieve in an investigation here. there are some reports that they already hold the black boxes. will will they hand them over to ukrainian authorities or an international body? i don't know. i would be doubtful myself at this point. i talked to u.s. sources. the state department has been in consultation with the with ntsb