to change the relationship between police and the public. joining me now, omar wasso, assistant professor at princeton university's department of politics. i know you say history shows peaceful protest are enormously effective at bringing about change. what about a peaceful police approach? isn't it a two-way street? >> i think that's a really important question, and i think it's helpful to begin a discussion about protesting with sort of why are people protesting, and there's this anger and mourning and grief at an incident like the police killing of george floyd. and for some people, that anger kind of justifies that sort of what you might caught an eye for an eye morality, that we want to reciprocate the state violence gechs us. when i look at the protests of 1960 and 1972, i found that nonviolent protests, particularly those that were met with state violence, where protesters make themselves the targets of state violence, those were very -- they created very powerful images that...