stand about michael cohen's previous description of that 8:02 p.m. phone call, and that was a very very powerful and effective moment for the trump defense. >> lawrence, always love your insights, thank you so much for coming out to the camera for us. we'll see you tonight. he has a lot more observations from inside the courtroom on "the last word," 10:00 p.m. eastern right here on msnbc. >>> now i want to bring in msnbc legal correspondent, lisa rubin, and "new york times" investigative reporter, suzanne craig who are also in the courthouse in the overflow room today. about an hour ago, katy tur came out, and we were asking about sort of the mood and tenor. she said it was calm, quiet, almost serene, and i said we're kind of looking for that john grisham moment. she said we have not had that. and she texted me five minutes ago maybe, and she said we just had your grisham moment. i'm eating my hat.