what is in a leak? a leak by any other name would smell so sweet.raitor, my friend. >> i don't remember that going that way in my english class, but we'll roll with it, kate. yeah, look, you had it exactly right at the top. leaks that work for president are good, leaks that make him look bad or he thinks don't accurately portray the white house, he hates. it is a classic double standard, not new for this white house, donald trump has double standards on lots of things. i would argue this, if you want to know why there is a leaking culture in the white house, look at the guy who sits in the oval office. donald trump is someone i'll remind people in the 1980s, made up a pr executive named john miller, who allegedly worked in the trump organization and called the gossip tabloids in new york to talk about how virile, how successful donald trump was. it is hard to keep the president's aliases together, but the point is that that doesn't stop, kate, that sense of trying to manipulate the media, doing selective leaking of information to make you look bette

richman a leak." >> isn't that something? melissa: i told him about unclassified conversations with the president. were they unclassified? >> no, they were not unclassified. at a minimum there was an executive privilege that can only be foregone by the president himself. i keep thinking about brimly comment in absence of malice. every time they mention it's not really a leak, brimly said last time we had a leak like that, noah built himself an ark. that is what we have going on when you have comey, he doesn't consider it a leak. you know, in fairness to him, it's really not a leak. it's more of a flood. not just a little leak. maybe noah needs to build himself another ark. >> melissa: we'll see. congressman, thank you for your time. >> you bet. glad to be with you. thanks. >> melissa: voters head to the polls in four states today but most of the attention is on the pennsylvania primaries. how the state's redistricting is impacting its political landscape and what it could tell us about the mid-terms. plus, iran's nuclear chie

and this was a leaked comment. sure, it was leaked but the reality here is that the employee apologized herself. she called meghan mccain last evening offering a private apology. she was at work doing normal work. she was doing that today as business as usual. so an internal matter that leaked. but i was struck as we end this leak, the white house treated it as one more attack on them as opposed to what it was, an attack on john mccain. thanks so much. gloria, sarah sanders had multiple opportunities at the podium to simply say that the white house was sorry or the white house sends its thoughts and prayers to john mccain and say something, anything, yet she chose not to go there. it was very apparent, very stark. >> it was striking. she instead glommed onto the notion that this was a leak of an internal meeting. let me tell you what kind of a meeting this was. this was a meeting that kelly saddler had with congressional communication staffers. this was not internal closed door white house meeting. this was a meetin

the white house is fighting a brand-new battle to combat internal leaks. esident trump taking a twitter to blast staffers for the latest unauthorized disclosures. the leaks coming out of the white house are massive over exaggeration put out by the fake news media in order to make us look as bad as possible. with that being said, leakers are traitors and cowards, and we will find out who they are!" kellyanne conway is warning big changes are coming and these leakers could be kicked to the curb. >> there are all kinds of leaks. some exist to her colleagues. some exist because they disagree with policies. but none of them are helpful. i will say something else that's going on in this white house but not as badly as it was in the beginning. it's not so much leaking. it is using the media to shiv each other. you have the blessing of coming to work every day in this white house. >> do you expect personnel changes? >> i do. >> kimberly: strong words coming not only from the president but his staffers. he's very frustrated because at a time like this you want to be

a reporter. are there channels people have established for leaking? do they come to you. >> a lot of what we see is a lot of it is people coming to us. and we spoeb wike with people a this. we spoke with many who are leaking in the white house in the white house right now. they told us there is several difference they do this. a lot of times they want to settle a score or they have a personal vendetta against someone. a lot of times it's to change a policy. they are to the getting their side of the story out so they want to leak it so perhaps their view is shown or if there is a big policy coming up, that sort of thing they want to make sure they get their viewpoint out and maybe can hold that up. there is a lot of reasons for come out but normally it's for personal reasons and they are strategic about it. >> axios reporter elena trainer. >>> coming up, president trump rushes to the rescue of a chinese telecom company after last month the commerce department banned the from doing business with the same company. why the sudden change of heart? i'll expl

leaking in every administration. it's one way. the group decides on a policy you don't like. your last ditch effort, you leak it and hope that the blow-back out there will change the policy. this is way beyond that. >> bret: it is. there's a lot of them. it's happening with great frequency. i think to the genesis of this, one would think that there might be some issuance of an apology from the white house to just say something broadly from the podium. >> melissa: about the comment about senator mccain that was totally inappropriate. >> bret: and just move on. but we're now in the leaking of the comment and not the comment. there is a problem. she says kellyanne says there will be personnel changes. i'll be interested to see how that comes down. >> melissa: yeah. dagen, any time you work in a big organization and leaks come out and it's directed at somebody in the company, you think about, okay, who within the company hates that person? when she talks about shiving other people, this is sort of how you -- personal vendettas, how you crush somebody you don't like -- >> dagen: i

it's a criminal leak. there is a big problem with leaks from investigations.ese amounts is the size and scope of government is so big. if you want to drain the swamp, you have to deal with the size of government. everyone is acting like totally surprised this is happening, it's silly. as for the trying to link to this to the russian investigation, it's interesting that avanati was trying to link it to russia and suggested this information is part of the larger message about russia. i don't think that case was made well except russia has global interests and might have distant ties to some companies. >> bret: the nunes part and what they are not getting out of the doj yet? >> well, at this point, it's been interesting that the white house and the department of justice are on the same side. we don't see them in that position that often. the hill will push the republicans for this source to be revealed. the question is going to be -- once the president understands that this source is also somebody who has been cooperating with the mueller investigation, whether w

i think this is probably as big of a problem, but let's not minimize the leaking is a problem and a major is everybody working in the white house want to leak everything that happens here. >> and you worked in the executive branch during the clinton administration and worked in the white house, for vice president dan quayle. what would have happened had somebody said something like in thin a meeting and it leaked out, do you think? >> i hope that someone -- that that person would have been rebuked in the meeting itself. if it leaked out, i think there would have been a phone call obviously to senator john mccain and apologizing a public statement of a rebuke about the staffer and i'm not sure about being fired but as chief of staff i would have said, we regret this was said and we've -- we've told the staff this was inappropriate and we send our apologies. but not just to the particular individual but to the country. this is the tone -- this is the white house and not the republican national committee or a campaign. this is a taxpayer-funded individual employee, our employees saying this.

a year? h much of the media may be truly corrupt by the people get it. quote, the so-called leaksouse are a massive over exaggeration put out by the fake news media in order to make us look as bad as possible. with that being said, leakers are traitors and cowards and we will find out who they are. you remember the mooch who in his first days as communications director called a reporter and said this about chief of staff reince priebus, who he believed to be a leaker. >> he's a [ bleep ] paranoid schizophrenic. let me leak the [ bleep ] thing and see if i can [ bleep ] block these people. >> now, that all went down before scahe got fired. today we're learning about the lengths that the white house is going to catch leakers. according to one report, sweeps are carried out to track down personal devices that have made it past the lobby and into the building. men wearing suits and carrying large handheld devices have been seen roaming the west wing moving from room to room scouring for devices. if one is detected, one of the men will ask if someone in the room forgot to put their pho

leak is a serious crime. depending on the leaks it can violate numerous provisions of the criminal code. and there is a hierarchy of leaks. i'm not justifying it. some we can understand because they expose civil rights violations. but this is personal attacks meant to undermine the office of the president of the united states. but it's making him look like a victim of corruption and a victim of the swamp. the key is how this will be spun by the media. the trump administration can't trust doj to investigate who is doing the leak. so the house is going to investigate and the media will spin it and say it's political retaliation. kennedy: here we are talking about the leaks as opposed to the joke that kelly sadler made at senator mccain's expense. >> the joke was tasteless. but these leaks are infuriating. the white house needs smaller, tighter meetings. it just takes one person in the room to leak confidential personal information. if i were trump i would downsize my white house staff. i think the leakers are pr

i saw a reporter say no one leaked this. were just sharing a private conversation but this is another way of saying a leak. when someone says something bad and someone else goes and tells everybody it's worth asking what was hoped to be gained by this and sharing this comment that will hurt a sufficien suffering. it's an interesting media story and personal story. >> someone in the white house released this jock. i'm willing to believe the person was so offended by the casablanca yulcasual cruelty. >> it could be or an emmy of sadler. i'm not sure if the media coverage of this is calling on the calls for her to resign which has been getting ire time. whether journalist or commentators are saying it. the calls for her to resign holds her to a higher standard. who called for the president to resign when he did the exact same thing during the campaign. >> i will point out the white house isn't comet wanting because it's a leak. kelly hasn't said anything. good for fox for banning tom over this comments. torture breaks everyone.

leaks the timing with midterm elections about six months away may well be political but suing wiki leaks a news organization for publishing leaked material when it is hardly the only news outlet to do so could set a troubling precedent for press freedom in america. the us media have remained strangely silent on the implications busily obsessing over russian meddling in the election the moller investigation and donald trump's own rhetorical war against the media reporters have been taking a pass on the d.n.c. lawsuit story and the legal assault on the fourth estate that's coming from the other side of the aisle our starting point this week is washington. they're suing russia for a multi-billion dollar call this is a political stunt by the d.n.c. a claim alleging that the trouble campaign was essentially a racketeering enterprise that's a pretty serious analogy what does this mean for the farm restoration and reading in the coverage of this lawsuit through of the four principals involved are getting most of the attention the plaintiffs the d.n.c. which is the governing body of the democratic

>> i'm not going to validate a leak out of an internal staff meeting one way or the other. jonathan. >> reporter: does the president regret what he said during the campaign about john mccain when he said he wasn't a war hero, prefers people that weren't captured? >> i believe the president has spoken about that. i haven't talked with him specifically about that, jeff. >> reporter: if you won't comment on the specific comment, what does the white house believe about senator mccain? is is there a tone said where it's allowed for an aide to say he's dying anyway? >> certainly there is not a tone set here? we focus on doing things that help every american in this country every single day. if you look at the policies we put forth, you'll see that reflected. >> reporter: why not apologize to senator mccain -- >> i'm in tnot going to get int because people want to comment on leaked staff meeting. if the president no longer has confidence in a cabinet member, he'll let you go. >> reporter: what more does the president think nielsen could do now under the la that she hasn't done alre

a meeting. it was leaked. who are we in the press to tell the white house how to deal with an internal nasty joke? >> well, it's not really up to the media at this point. the daughter of john mccain, meghan mccain told the public she requested a public apology and hasn't got one and doesn't believe kelly sadler still has her job. that's a pretty important point here. cindy mccain, the wife of john mccain, weighed in on twitter about this. this is a family in a deep amount of pain and g.suffer and now you see i think a little late but republican colleagues in the sen saying publicly, wow, can't believe this is in day five and you guys aren't doing the right thing. so the pressure is coming from the allies and friends and colleagues of john mccain and that makes it a media story in day five or six. the white house made it clear we know that the culture of the white house is that you're not allowed to apologize. president trump sees that as a sign of weakness and you will get in trouble if you apologize for anyth

it's been a couple months. >> a lot of the leaks don't come from that. the president knows that because he sees who is in different meetings. >> is the president going to hire a new communications director? >> the president is a great communications director and he has wonderful people supporting him. i think you more than anybody will appreciate this. it's 2018. there's so many ways to communicate and send and receive information. the president does that through his social media platform. hundreds of millions of people see it. so you're dealing with the president himself who is not a politician at all. this is a man who is very social media savvy. he's very media centric. we're trying to build a structure. i'm trying to help out the department. we're trying to build a structure that accommodates the realities of president trump media savvy and 2018 where you just have so many more platforms with which to communicate. so fitting us into a structure that helped or benefitted the president in the past is just not a realistic view of 2018. >> the president h

that out of a private meeting. >> there is a lot of leaking going on here. a lot of laking i -- leaking in the cabinet meeting. maybe it's an intense environment. it's not guilty the first cabinet to experience that. who is getting this stuff out to people. >> happies happen all of the thyme in the white house and house of representatives. i remember talking on the phone to a colleague. i was standing at my laptop looking at a website. a reporter was reporting on my phone conversation as i was on the phone. what happened with the mccain comment yesterday or two days ago was different. this was a private meeting. the leak was designed to hurt that person. also, completely ignored the harm it would do to the family which is doubly inconacid -- inconacid rate. the press was in there for some of that meeting. for a private meeting, someone had a bad joke. that's troubling and i hope they get to the bottom of that one. >> you were right. she called megan mccain. >> which is the right way to handle that situation. >> i know you want them to makin' d

meeting. >> does the white house think you don't need to condemn these -- >> i'm not going to validate a leak one way or the other out of an internal staff meeting. >> i'm not going to get into a back and forth because, you know, people want to create issues of leaked staff meetings. >> in case you didn't catch that, white house press secretary sarah sanders doesn't want to talk about it, even though one source told cnn sadler called mccain's daughter, meghan mccain, to apologize, and still, sanders defended the culture inside the west wing. >> is there a tone set from the top here where it is allowed for an aide to say he's dying anyway? >> certainly, there is not a tone set here. we have a respect for all americans. >> sanders later conceded, president trump does set the tone. >> does he bear responsibility for the tone set here at the white house? and all of the staffers who work here, frankly? >> so what is that tone? judge for yourself. >> we have incompetent politicians not only the president. i mean, right here in your own state, you have john mccain. he's not a war hero. >> he's a war

additionally i can tell you that within the white house they actually do view this as a leak problem rather than as a joke problem. of course, there's the understanding that sadler shouldn't have said what she said but it seems to be the case that comments like this are not necessarily few and far between. and the comment itself apparently didn't cause as much consternation as it could have. that said, this white house has caused enormous problems for it 168. the leak of the comment was the political equivalent of stepping on the upturned tines of a rake. it's not the first time this white house has sabotaged itself. remember the criticism from republicans on capitol hill. there's the comment that the president himself made about countries as being s-hole nations. we could spend all day talking about examples of ways this white house has damaged itself. fact that this white house is more concerned about the leak than the joke is just another indicator that trust is a huge problem. that professionalism they view to be as a huge problem and this is a press team that's currently right no

also, you say that has been a leak and so farthe also, you say that has been a leak and so far the specialy leak—proof. you don't know for a fact it was the special counsel's office that meet the questions. 0ne special counsel's office that meet the questions. one other thing related to the story, there are quite a few grammatical errors in what has been released by the new york times. ijust wonder what has been released by the new york times. i just wonder whether they could be the same source as the person who confuses has and had, so thatis person who confuses has and had, so that is also a question about weird that is also a question about weird that the leak come from and all of this, but fascinating. let's go to the substance of this. a fascinating series of questions and it will be veered interesting to see whether donald trump wants to go before the special counsel and answer them. i would still think the burden of likelihood is that they want.l would still think the burden of likelihood is that they want. a lot of open ended questions. —— is that he will not. open-ended questions

a life of service. they are upset about the leaks. an american hero, he is a states man, and he is somebody who deserves respect. at this point, this is the wrong cross to die on. this is a ridiculous position for the white house to stick with. they need to apologize. i could hear my fellow episcopalian. >> you want to jump in there? >> there is an old rule, you have to pick which hill to die on. is this really the hill the trump white house wants to take bullets on? you just made a really interesting point, which is they're not calling this fake news, which is interesting. you know, and so i think part of it is they feel if they apologize, maybe it opens the door to having to actually be accountable for what they do going forward. and that's a hell of a prospect. >> is this possibly a situation, john, where, i mean, when trump's campaign first started everybody thought that his criticism of john mccake as a p.o.w. would be the hill trump died on. the lesson they learned, he's not going to die on this hill. >> that is absolutely right.

i don't think this is a leak for someone trying to protect john mccain at the white house. this is another internal rivalry that's a junior staffer, and after a lot of junior staffers have been fired and a lot of senior staffers have been fired after being blamed for the leaks, this is still going on. this backfighting inside the white house is still happening. >> it's not even what they said, it's how the white house is handling it. in the aftermath, you haven't seen any real apology in the white house. while this staffer did apologize to meghan mccain, where is the white house apology? the president could have tweeted about it and the staffer should have some serious repercussions. in some ways there is a doubling down of this. we'll see what sarah sanders has to say about it this afternoon, but the white house does not want to take responsibility, even with something as egregious as this. >> i think we need to look at the briefing to see if they offer anything else. so far bwe had a very bland comment from the white house last night. there has been no actual apology and t

>> from a messaging standpoint, why do you think the white house is putting so much focus on the leaksigating damage from the comments themselves. >> this president is a master deflector. let's not talk about the substance and why that was an abhorrent thing to say. deflect from the fact the young woman still has a job, deflect from the fact leadership comes to the top, said this in a room she thought would be received well or knew there would be no repercussions from it being such a vile thing. so let's deflect from that, focus on the leaks. i agree with susan, the leaks are a perfect example how we know the administration is not full of people professional in communications or politics in general, and frankly they're people that have undermined the gravity and respect the american people afford to any presidency. and we see it every day with the nature of unprofessionalism out of the white house. >> you know what, you heard the clip earlier, fox news is pushing back saying why isn't the white house apologizing. you would think the white house would say we need to put an apology out t

it is a leak. the white house needs to get a handle on who is leaking out of that place.his stuff is absolutely outrageous. >> the problem they have at the white house, the reason they have leaks is because nobody has loyalty to the principle. he stands for nothing. they are giving the country away to the rich and the powerful. you didn't see this leaking in the bush white house and the obama white house because people had a common purpose. there is no common purpose. it's a feeding frenzy. >> is that one of the problems here? >> a comment that rudy giuliani made sticks with me when he described jared kushner as possibly disposable in the russia investigation. anyone not helpful to their agenda is disposable. keep in mind the context of this discussion. they were talking about john mccain's opposition to the cia nominee who has a record supporting enhanced interrogation techniques. that is why they said he is dying anyway. he suffered through those kinds of torturous techniques and said he is disposable. >> happy mother's day to you. thank you for being here. it's mother'

sanders: i'm not going to get into a back and forth about leaks. we have said many times before, if the president know longer has confidence in a cabinet member he will let you know. reporter: what more does the president think brigitte nielsen can do now under the law, -- that kiersten nielsen can do under the law? ms. sanders: the president wants us to do a number of things. he wants us to work with we have laid out time and time again and as we have called on them to do. if democrats in congress would stop playing political games, we would love to secure the border, we would love to close the loopholes in the system, we would love to get a fix on daca. we would like to get all of those things done. reporter: this he pushed republicans to get a floor -- does he pushed republicans to get a vote on the house floor? we would support anything to fix the broken immigration system. the homeland security secretary last night said the president was rightly frustrated by congressional action. why was that frustration expressed for the secretary herself? sh

now you have a white house that leaks a lot. what is extraordinary about the leaks this time, though, is not so much how many there are. there are a lot. it's the nature of those leaks as kellyanne conway said these are done to damage other people. you think about the leak about what was said about john mccain. it can have no purpose other than to make kelly and the white house and president like mean spirited and one wonders why somebody who leaks that sort of thing is actually working in the white house. they are clearly trying to inflict damage on it. >> bill: that's an interesting point. it is so rampant it seems intentional all the time. >> yeah. it is intentional and you have to wonder. it was a cynical and unpleasant comment. we're in day five. the white house has to get better in damage control. there should have been an apology at least four days ago but the person who actually did the leak cannot pretend that they were outraged it might cause pain to the mccain family. it is only through the leak that the mccain family

whether it is a gas leak or a wire down, just having someone there that deals with this every day isy comforting. we each bring something to the table that is unique and that is a specialty. with all of us working together we can keep all these emergencies small. and the fact that we can bring it together and effectively work together is pretty special. they bring their knowledge, their tools and equipment and the proficiency to get the job done. and the whole time i have been in the fire service, pg&e's been there, too. whatever we need whenever we need it. i do count on pg&e to keep our firefighters safe. that's why we ask for their help. >>> this next item contains the word "procedure" six times because we don't know much about it and we don't really know what else to call it. but there you have it. the news is this. melania trump is recovering from a procedure this morning to treat what the white house called a benign kidney condition. the aforementioned procedure was a surprise to the public and kept under wraps by the first lady's office in the east wing. in a statement release

leaks. actually it's a favorite thing. but obviously not only is his white house the leakiest sieve ever, on other topics, this particular leak really does appear to be coming from his team and his legal team specifically. >> yeah. it's hypocritical, erin, for this president to talk about the press and talk about the leaks and how he wants to even possibly have people jailed for leaking, and then they're going to do -- they want this to play out in the court of public opinion. that's what it's interest. they don't want it to play out with mueller but in the court of public opinion that basically throws people away from any of this, any of what mueller is doing or any other investigation. and what happens is he's not only leaking, but he's undermining the rule of law, he's undermining the investigation, and he wants to throw the american public this bone so they can see that it's the same thing that we've been talking about, which in essence people are saying who are close to the white house, who are saying this is not what

trying to turn the whole thing into a story about leaks. >> if you don't -- if you aren't able in internal meetings to speak your mind or convey thoughts or say anything that you feel without feeling like your colleagues will betray you, that creates a difficult work environment. anybody who works anywhere can recognize that. >> is there any environment conveying that thought would be viewed as appropriate? >> again, i'm not going to address it any further. >> the president himself tweeting, quote, leakers and traitors and cowards and we will find out who they are. kellyanne conway telling fox news this tonight. >> and i will tell you something else that's gone on in this white house, but not as badly as it was at the beginning where it's not so much leaking, it's using the media to shoot each other. >> so the white house clearly obsessed with leaks and loyalty. but here's the thing. this is a totally unforced error. the whole thing could have been over and done with if kelly sadler, the aide who made the so-called joke, had apologized publicly, as she promised meghan mccain. so, why hasn'

this is a sorry about leaking as well. people in the white house want to leak about this white house. that is a story in itself. why they feel like they should be doing it. more than anything else a simple apology for the insensitivity for a dying man. this is not the first time donald trump or his administration essentially gone after mccain. the first time it happened, jaws were on the floor. >> lots of people don't like mccain's positions he devoted much of his life to debating thing. >> you should be decent. >> people talk a lot. u

caller: a comment regarding the questions that have been in the papers from the mueller organization about what they want to ask the president. we have leaks within the mueller team itself. is that a concern to america? guest: the new york times has not disclosed to gave it those materials, but the story have appeared on air saying the president's lawyers wrote down those questions and they were provided by someone not part of donald trump's legal team. i take issue with the premise of your question. that appears to be a leak from someone close to president trump not the justice department. brenda, one for democrats. mr. long: i wanted to say -- caller: this is the first time i heard broad rosenstein address anything going on. i am very impressed by his , andty, his intelligence the seriousness with which he took his oath of office. as far as donald trump claiming this is a witchhunt, the only witchhunt that was conducted was conducted by donald trump himself when he hired private investigators to go to hawaii to investigate president obama. i'm still waiting to be amazed by all the information is private investigators or finding out about

a never ending cycle of leaks, outrage, counter-attacks and ultimately paralysis. there is a chunk of congress that blames all of that on the president and there is another chunk that rushes to his defense. and there is the chunk of folks who seem to say just get me out of here. dozens of members of congress are now retiring. some of them already out the door. most of them republicans. and some of them not shy about saying why. >> too many republicans expect unquestioning blind unquestioning loyalty and obedience to president trump no matter how absurd or destructive the comment or may have. on the other side, too many democrats offer resistance to president trump even if they agree with him on a given policy or position. >> i'm joined now by republican congressman charlie dent of pennsylvania. you just heard from him there. that was his farewell address on the house floor. his ley last day in congress is tomorrow. we have been told this will be his last interview as a congressman. thank you for taking a few minutes to talk. let me start with what's in the news toda

big of a problem is this for the white house, when a communications staff can't have an internal meeting without information out of that meeting leakingy are already a paranoid shop. this is going to make it more paranoid. many of the sources i spoke to said sarah was absolutely disgusted and really enraged that her internal conversations were getting out. and really it's almost like an a anger and source of resignation where they say yes, i'm sure this is going to leak too. you had white house strategic communications director saying you can put me on the record here, i stand with kelly sadler knowing many subordinates would talk to some reporters including my c that is a great frustration for them. in many ways it isolates the white house communication shop from the rest of the policy team who are frustrated they're not read into major decisions and they can't answer questions whenever the press asks them. going forward, we can assume a more isolated white house shop. >> molly: it's interesting, because over the past weeks we've heard a lot of frustration that the com shop isn't getting information about everything that's going on o

does the white house think you don't need to condemn these remarks. >> i'm not going to validate a leak one way or another. again, i'm not going to get into a back and forth because, you know, people want to create issues of leaked staff meetings. >> cnn's boris sanchez is live at the white house for us. boris, what more can you tell us about what went on behind closed doors? >> hey, there. yeah, one source that was a part of the meeting indicates that sanders took exception to the idea someone leaked this information about sadler's comments to target her, to try to hurt her reputation publicly. we are noticing that sanders obviously has said less in public than she has in private about these statements from sadler. notably, no apology for john mccain, and further, her saying she wouldn't even validate this leak and address these comments further than she did from the podium. other white house officials are defending sadler, notably, mick mulvaney, the budget director, was on one of the early morning talk shows today, essentially saying that sadler has the right to be candid when she's

the heart of the administration, i started companies and run them and it's a very simple truths, in any organization, leakings a sign of a bad culture. a bad culture is a sign about management. in the end do you have to ask who is running the team. that is not the job of the president, that's the job of the chief of staff. it's quite clear that john kelly, for him all his attributes in his career, he has not put in place the professional team that delivers the president's agenda in a unified way. so he has to take some responsibility for it. >> the they now may be see it as chaotic again. >> the two things i'd say about that for us, that certainly is the case. what we saw in the early days of the administration, we are not seeing that level of leaking at this point. it's hard to remember how often that happens. but also, he and the president have grown distant recently. i don't know if that plays a role. the way that he first planted his flag as being antiestablishment and it rallied people to his cause was by challenging john mccain's war record. i don't know that this is -- that this particular thing as a

let me ask you about a report by ronan farrell in the "new yorker." he says he leaked michael cohen's confidential records. he said she or he did it because suspicious activity reports were missing. >> there is a difference between being restrirkted or missing. if someone is going to come forward leaking someone's financial information, it's not right. it's hard to look at that report and not take it at a grain of salt where he's citing somebody outright who admitted to doing something illegal. howie: discussions i have seen on the air, oh, this is fascinating, whistleblower, they were worried about corruption. it seems to me many outlets are missing the point. confidential banking records are okay to put out. guy: leakers generally aren't allowed to leak the things that they do. the problem is the person blowing the whistle was blowing the whistle with ignorance or limited knowledge about the actual facts of the case. she jumped to the conclusion because she didn't find the records here where she thought they should be. the records still exist and they have not been d

problem obviously there been politically there been a lot of leaks that didn't have anything to do with really you know showing waste fraud abuse collusion any of these things a lot of it's been politically motivated but why is there a need to cut those other sections out instead of just dealing with that one thing and do restrictions on prosecutors is that. is that really going to deemphasize like does that need to be deemphasized in order to take the leaks seriously all depends on whose ox is being gored you know the leak is that glass half empty word for whistle blower right best movie i've seen in months is the post you know tom hanks and meryl streep are you. a riveting retelling of the story of the pentagon papers what is dead and never leaked right you know some people actually here in washington still have a vertebra. and we have both of us spying. so you know acts of political courage depends on what the issue is you know it's a very so i was there something i mean obviously now we've never had a moment in this country where everyone agreed that something was great or anyt

several leakers. >> trevor: so now the leakers with leaking leaks about a meeting about what leaked. laughter ) you know what this is like? like in a relationship when you're having an argument about how much we argue. why do we have to always argue! we don't argue! yes we do! no we don't! if you can't tell people to stop leaking without them immediately leaking you're screwed. the white house may have been focused on the leak problem but the white house has another thing. >> why don't you apologize? >> why don't you say we're sorry. >> i wouldn't apologize. >> i wish somebody from the white house would tell the country that was inappropriate. >> it has been five days since white house aide kelly sadler made the morbid and awful remark about senator john mccain's failing health and still the white house refuses to apologize. >> trevor: wow. day five and still no apology. they make it sound like the white house is holding the apology hostage. day five, no sign of the apology yet. feels like if this goes on for long enough quincy jones is going to have to make a tribute song to help ge

and n named law enforcement agent told a lawyer that he or she leaked the documents because of concernst related pieces of information were starting to go flition a federal database. we talked about this on this show earlier in the week. turns out now the treasury department is saying, listen, no. they say restricting access to these kinds of records is normal procedure just given how sensitive the special counsel's investigation is. the senior law officer tells nbc news that all of the key people in the investigation have had similar files that are markeds restrict order moved from the database altogether. ken breaks it down for us. >> reporter: this document came from a database maintained by a treasury unit called the fenl force meant network. and ten of thousands of law enforcement officials across the country have access to this. and every current and former law enforcement official my colleague tom winter and i have consulted about this said it is not uncommon for certain files in this database to be restricted from viewing if they are part of extremely sensitive, law enforcement,

whether it is a gas leak or a wire down, just having someone there that deals with this every day is pretty comforting. we each bring something to the table that is unique and that is a specialty. with all of us working together we can keep all these emergencies small. and the fact that we can bring it together and effectively work together is pretty special. they bring their knowledge, their tools and equipment and the proficiency to get the job done. and the whole time i have been in the fire service, pg&e's been there, too. whatever we need whenever we need it. i do count on pg&e to keep our firefighters safe. that's why we ask for their help. most of us would believe is embarrassed by much if anything. pu according to white house chief of staff john kelly, the president is quote somewhat embarrassed by special counsel robert mueller's investigation. kelly suggested the investigation is the elephant in the room when trump meets with foreign leaders. here is part of kelly's interview that aired today on npr morning edition. >> from what i read in the newspaper, something that has g

a lack of decency. i don't think the under lying problems is leak itself. we are going right now to get to nbc's kelly o'donell because she will talk more of the situation. >> there is been a response from the white house, what can you tell us? >> one of the members of the president's staff, myck mullvaney, he was on television and asked about this and what we are getting from the white house is what you have been discussing, this sort of divide over reluctant to come out and condemn the remark and focus on the fact of what have been said on a private meeting should not have been leaked. the appropriateness of what was said and the lack of appropriateness for what was said and what it does to the reputation of anyone who works there and how it reflects to the president and very tough talks. here is the question and answ answer -- what should happen to employees. >> they said in a private meeting inside the white house. it is not like you may say something nasty about me off the air. it does not have much impact. you come on air and say it officially. this is

we heard that sarah huckabee sanders saying she's not going to talk about a leak. we've seen this from this administration, not focusing on the substantial but on the fact that it became leaked and became a public affairs problem for the white house. it not only sustainable to -- clearly not only allies of the president but opponents of the president said this is beyond the pale, you don't insult a war hero on his death bed and basically has a few more weeks or months to live. it not something you should be doing as a white house official. that's why this administration is really struggling to figure out how to contain the damage and hope it blows over and hopes something else takes over the news cycle. one controversy start and before you can even really process it, something else comes out. >> ron, it's not lost on me that comity and civility is something that john mccain talked a lot about. how much of his book centers on his prescription for improving the political environment in washington, d.c.? >> there is a specific chapter, david that is correct is devoted

you see the white house trying to make this a story about leaks. a story about the media which is one of trump's favorite topics. i think jeff bennett's reporting that this remark was meant to get some kind of reaction from the room that would have been seen as positive. that matters also. the delivery talks about the tone in the room and how aides feel and able to say something like this. >> azi, the suggestion by mulvaney that the leak was put out there to hurt sadler. what do you make of that? she still has a job. >> sources motivation for leaking can always be called into question. what is not being called into question is the atmosphere that enabled her to think this was funny. someone thought this remark would be well received speaks to the kind of team that trump has brought into the white house. obviously, the people who are leaking had a different view and there's always people who want to sort of climb up the ladder. but if this is the environment in which they're talking about behind closed doors, it sort of gives more fuel to the fire a

a result? >> i do, yes, i do. >> so kellyanne there saying she expects heads could roll over this latest leak. but the bottom line is, poppy, dozens of people speak to reporters on a daily basis. it is a way we find out what is going on inside the west wing. >> true story. you bring it to us. kaitlan collins, appreciate the reporting this morning, thank you. >>> still to come, back to the breaking news we're following those clashes that are still under way in gaza. pretty stunning images. we're on it. >>> also the first lady recuperating at walter reed after kidney surgery. the latest on her recovery ahead. [phone ringing] need a change of scenery? the kayak price forecast tool tells you whether to wait or book your flight now. so you can be confident you're getting the best price. giddyup! kayak. search one and done. ♪ with expedia you could book a flight, hotel, car and activity all in one place. ♪ >>> this morning, the president says the first lady is doing well after a medical procedure that may keep her at walter reed medical center until friday. here is what the president writes, thank yo

leaked. it was on axios. a meeting that she asked not to have leaked knew would be leaked. it's leaked by a group of people that included several leakers. i think it's just a microcosm of what happens at a lot of these meetings. it's not just the dmun indications team. you're seeing this happen with meetings in the situation room, meetings with donald trump. by the way, trump himself talks to so many people on the phone at night that a lot of leaking gets done that way. so i think one of the things that we're going to look back on 10, 20 years from now is that you really do have on thes of viz ability into the wild days of trump white house you haven't seen in previous presidencies. >> does the management style of the white house have anything to do with this extreme level of leaking that we've been seeing? >> absolutely. anybody who is a manager or has a manager, the tone is always set at the top. he doesn't care if you leak. obviously he's wildly improvisational and loves media himself and likes the game of m