. >> its lawyer night here again at the last word starting up with andrew weissmann and neil catchall. joining us later is carson been goldman, also a lawyer, and former federal prosecutor. former federal prosecutors now requirement to be a guest at this hour. >> we're just surrounded by lawyers all the time because it's indictment season, it appears. not just indictment watch. it's a potential season of indictments ahead of us. >> and since monday, since monday i have been dying to ask dan goldman about something that i heard on monday. you might remember this. it's when robert costello fights finds the manhattan grand jury, dealer lawyer who said he had discussions with michael cohen at the very beginning of the stormy daniels controversy, and michael cohen said things to him that were very different from what he has been saying to the grand jury. and he was there to contradict michael cohen. and he said that he had told a number of people, apparently, about this difference. his view of michael cohen's testimony a while ago. and the very last night he mentioned all these names. the

and still with us is andrew weissmann.low, columnist for the new york times and msnbc political analyst. charles, the washington post -- headline right now at this hour's i hate passionately. it's quoting tucker carlson about donald trump. which probably is the single shortest quote that depicts the full space between what fox hosts actually think and what they said to their audience about trump. >> right. and it is kind of in line with what we know about a lot of lawmakers too, who will say things off the record and in front of the cameras will say something completely different. -- paul ryan said pretty much the same thing, that he did not want to be disappointed -- word he used -- didn't want to do that. so he was playing along, pretending that he get along with him. tucker carlson was doing the same thing and a lot of the fox hosts were doing the same thing on the air, pretending to be journalists, and doing it to their audiences. and those audiences are still tonight in the dark, many of them. we do not have a media e

luckily, we've got andrew weissmann here and others to discuss this. and later in the hour, because i am wondering how donald trump was feeling tonight, and because everyone who works for donald trump is a liar for donald trump, i don't rely on what the trump staff says, like the new york times does, about how donald trump is -- i'm going to ask them mary trump tonight. >> oh! >> -- how her uncle is feeling as they close in on him and prosecutors, officers, all across the country. >> that, lawrence, is called a deep cut and a must watch segment. i will be tuning in for than. >> thanks, alex. >> see you! >> -- for donald trump, which involve court procedural deadlines. unlike any we have ever seen, we have an ultra high speed appeal of a ruling ordering one of donald trump's lawyers to testify to special prosecutor jack smith and the grand jury. the trump lawyers have a filing deadline of midnight tonight in the federal appeals court in washington d.c.. and jack smith has a response deadline of six hours later, six i am tomorrow morning. that is happeni

andrew weissmann is back with us. in there to testify without the protection of the attorney client privilege? >> absolutely. if the new york times were reporting is correct, this could be a huge development for the government. it goes to the issue of whether donald trump obstructed the federal investigation regarding the mar-a-lago documents. evan corcoran wrote and drafted a certification that settled documents had been returned. it's clear that certification was false. the question is, who gave the information to evan corcoran that all the documents had been returned? presumably, that's his client, donald trump. what errol howell is reporting is that that is not protected by the attorney client privilege. if a client is using a lawyer to commit a crime, whether the lawyer is in on it or not, the lawyer doesn't have to be complicit, of course, if they, are it's more serious. there is no attorney client privilege. the court ordered that he has to go into the grand jury and testify to the question of where did you get

also with us is andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel, former chief of the criminal division in the eastern district of new york. he is a professor of practice at nyu law school and an msnbc legal analyst. congressman goldman, let me begin with you and what we learned yesterday in the dominion lawsuit, which is still such a powerful piece of information that could have changed what happened on january 6th, and that was, the consideration that faded away on january 5th, right over there on sixth avenue in the fox headquarters in manhattan -- of the primetime hosts were shooing issuing a written public statement, a joint public statement of the three primetime hosts, abandoning the trump lie about the election, saying joe biden won and that there was really no function for mike pence the next day -- imagine what could have been at the capitol if those three had told the truth. >> yeah, imagine what could've been if they had made public their private text messages on january 6th and some of these other emails where they acknowledge that in no uncertain terms that the conspiracy or

andrew weissmann, let's begin with the breaking news of the night.i saw neil katyal, an appeals process experts saying and tweeting tonight he is not sure he has ever seen a midnight deadline followed by a six a.m. deadline. especially in an appeal like this. what is your sense of what is happening in that situation? >> no question, this is extremely tight deadline. this relates to the ruling that george howell issued on friday, saying, evan corcoran needs to testify, and that the documents that he has are not privileged. that if you are a client and you try to commit a crime using your lawyer whether the lawyer is winning or unwitting there is no attorney client privilege in that context that is an unassailable ruling. but usually, people are allowed to appeal and to say, to get a second bite of the apple to see whether the panel would agree with that. here at the, appellate panel has said, yes, you can specify exactly which documents you think should not be turned over, but you have until midnight tonight. the government said you have to have until

it's very bad for the country. >> joining me now is andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and nt to talk to you about the law and what you see out there, not about the politics of all of this, although the president is saying that he can go on the attacks against prosecutors as he has in the past. is there any way to judge just how close the special counsel might be in deciding whether to recommend a prosecution, and that's a recommendation the attorney general would have to follow unless it falls way outside the legal precedence? >> so the answer is we don't know. we don't know with respect to the two federal investigations, andrea, and the georgia state investigation and the manhattan d.a. all of those are pending criminal matters. i would say the one we have the more intel is the georgia state case, and that's because the d.a. said several weeks ago that a decision would be, quote, imminent, unquote. now, what imminent means is something that you and i and a lot of other people have speculated, but that could obviously be any day now, but there are state charges. i think jus

for■k making gd faith motions, but i don't think this is anything we have to worry about. >> andrew weissmannesident biden callsxd for a ban on assault weapons after six people, including three :ni■kids, three ki■ school. what will it take to get concrete gun reform? that's next.ó[■ñrl8(pr(t&háhp &, >>> it's just -- it's sick, you know? we're still gathering the facts of what happened and why, and w■ do know that asht■ of now,ok th are a number of people who are not going -- did not makes7■ it including children.r the shooter in this situation reportedly had twolp assault weapons and a pistol, two ak-47s. m■i] again to pass my assault weapons ban. it's about time that we begin to m9ñ >> president biden calls for congres six people,+■ including three children, three kids, were shot and killed at a private school in ñfinashville, tennessee. police say the shooter wasñr 28 years old and a former student at the christian elementary school. they also say the shooter was transgender and are investigating whether identity played anyxd kindÑi of factor ie motive. the shooter was reportedly armed and

i don't think there is anything that we have to worry about. >> andrew weissmann, thank you for your ppreciate it. >> andrew's new prospect got prosecuting donald trump is now available wherever you get your podcast. still ahead president -- calls for a ban on assault by police after six people, including three kids, three kids, are killed and a nashville school. what will it take to get concrete's gun reform. that is next but wow basically sitting on a goldmine? i don't think they have a clue. that's crazy! well, not everyone knows coventry's helped thousands of people sell their policies for cash. even term policies. i can't believe they're just sitting up there! sitting on all this cash. if you own a life insurance policy of $100,000 or more, you can sell all or part of it to coventry. even a term policy. for cash, or a combination of cash and coverage, with no future premiums. someone needs to tell them, that they're sitting on a goldmine, and you have no idea! hey, guys! you're sitting on a goldmine! come on, guys! do you hear that? i don't hear anything anymore. find out if you'

it is a much larger problem that we are seeing in the halls of congress today. >> andrew weissmann, what do you see when you read these revelations in this new filing by dominion in the case? >> i see something that really picks up on what dan, congressman goldman, has to say, which is looking at this as in a broader context, it's bad enough that fox is doing this, but we see kevin mccarthy giving favored treatment to fox. we see fox news leaking information to jared kushner. and so you really end up with this idea that you have a state sponsored media. the enormous power of fox news and the they have now been caught red-handed and perpetuating something they knew at the time was a lie makes them so akin to what i investigated for 22 months with the senate entail committee in a bipartisan report, which was russian disinformation in 2016 election. but here we now have it inside the house. it's not coming from outside the country. it's coming from within fox news, with the blessing of people in congress and in the white house working hand in glove with fox news. so this is an incredibly da

let's bring in andrew weissmann. let's talk about the reuben theory that laura laid out, the idea that if donald trump were to appeal this, the supreme court would get a look at what the underlying evidence was, and presumably if it was bad, it could create a bias against him for a later ruling. a prejudice. >> that is certainly possible. yeah, that certainly is a plausible explanation, and if you combine that with the fact that there is no way on god's green earth he was going to win that, the combination, i think, is the reason for them to decide it's not worth the time and money because this is going to happen. and it's not like the supreme court would have bought him months and months of delay, at most, it would have been a few days with the risk that i think wisely brings about. could i just comment a bit about the donald trump continuing the vitriolic statements, that the courts actually then can have a role in putting a muzzle on what he is doing. the same thing happened with roger stone when he issued a photo

still with us is andrew weissmann, -- charles blow, -- msnbc political analyst.rles, the washington post -- right now at this hour's i hate passionately. quoting tucker carlson about donald trump. which probably is the single shortest quote that depicts the full space -- fox hosts actually think and what they said to their audience about trump. >> right. it is kind of in line with what we know about a lot of lawmakers -- who will say things off the record and in front of the cameras, say something completely different -- he didn't want to be disappointed, he said whatever -- didn't want to do that, so he just played along. pretending that he get along with him. so he was doing the same thing. a lot of the fox hosts are doing the same thing on the air. pretending to be journalists, and doing it to their audiences. those audiences are still tonight in the dark -- we do not have a media environment in america right now where people are fox watchers, they are back and forth between msnbc and fox and cnn, because they are not, unless they are watching. so, it is a sma

it's a real serious problem for the fbi right now. >> neil katyal and andrew weissmann, thank you both very much for leading off our discussion on this important night. really appreciate it! >> thank you. >> thank you. >> you're welcome. >> coming up, today, former vice prime minister of australia says rupert murdoch has made more damage to american democracy than any other person alive today. we'll have more on rupert murdoch's lies as was revealed by the lawsuit next with charles blow. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ney. yeah. i respect that. but that cough looks pretty bad. try this robitussin honey. the real honey you love, plus the powerful cough relief you need. mind if i root through your trash? robitussin. the only brand with real honeyand elderberry. migraine hits hard, so u hit back with ubrelvy u level up u won't take a time-out one dose of ubrelvy works fast it can quickly stop migraine in its tracks within 2 hours without worrying if it's too late or where you are unlike older medicines, ubrelvy is a pill that directly blocks a protein believed to be a cause of migraine. do not take with str

leading off our discussion is andrew weissmann, former fbi general counselor and former chief of the criminal division in the eastern district of new york. he's a professor of practice at nyu law school and msnbc legal analyst. andrew, i would say as i was being at the 200 or so page filing today, i was thinking a legal terms all the way through beginning with the table of contents showing exactly what they were presenting legally today. but when i got through it at all, legally wasn't really where i was, and i knew you were coming on here tonight and you could do the job for us. what is your legal assessment of the presentation in this filing today? >> sure! i mean there's no question that you have been presenting to viewers what is the real take home here, but in order for dominion to succeed, i think it is important for viewers to understand what is required by the first amendment. because there is real protections that the supreme court has dictated for people like you and me, and even people at fox news, uhm--there's a very high standard that has to be met. so what dominion needs

andrew weissmann spent a couple of years trying to investigate the former president's ties to russia.t mean there aren't questions to be answered. as a matter of politics and policy about how donald trump relates to vladimir putin, and what he told sean hannity, and did not get aired on tv, he would have been happy to have negotiated a deal that allowed russia to take part of ukraine. that's an extraordinary thing, and something voters might want to know and take into consideration when they make a decision next year. fox tv obviously edited that out. we don't know why. we can guess, and it is important information. i think that that's a remarkable statement because basically right now, of course, all of europe, all of the united states is, you know, taking the opposite position, which is that russia should not be rewarded by taking another country's territory simply because, you know, it engages in aggression and intimidation. >> i said suspiciously edited. i should say interestingly they took it out. better word for it. peter baker, andrew weissmann, thank you very much. >>> in the

understand about what is gonna happen in the next few days >> all right, charlie savage and andrew weissmann i want you guys to stick around i am going to bring in senio capitol hill correspondent - he is in west palm beach i florida near mar-a-lago. garrett, i understand you have some new reporting >> well, jonathan, here's what i can tell you conversations with trump allies and their publi comments, and watching which i'm himself has said publicly, including on truth social an videos that his campaign has published over the last couple of days. an indictment that - is coming next - week - politically with - we - see this as -- as an attack - people even if - weaponizing the federa government, or donald trump. so if you are a desantis fan or a nikki haley fan, or jus someone who wants to maybe mov on from trump. but you are still a part o that conservative movement if you are still part of tha broader maga coalition, this i going to force you back into trump's camp, at least to some degree that is a way that trump and his allies view this and so, you see something like this truth social pos

what happens there we have to make it clear this is what the "wall street journal" said, but andrew weissmann, talk to me about what vaughn just laid out if you're looking at david pecker and the story of karen mcdougal, by outward appearance, it does seem like it would fall into this purview. >> absolutely, it's worth noting as vaughn said, this isn't actually new information, if you've been following this case closely. but it is extremely important information to rebut what mr. costello, which is the trump witness who went into the grand jury at the behest of the trump team apparently said to the jurors where he said this was really just michael cohen's idea and scheme and donald trump had nothing to do with it. the reason, as vaughn laid out, this is important is for two reasons. one, because you have david pecker saying that donald trump was in on the scheme to do a catch and kill and that there were direct conversations with david pecker, michael cohen, and the former president. so that's one incredibly important piece of evidence, and the other is that the defense that donald trump may

no regula defended he does have resources that th average person is not going to have and as andrew weissmanns also a function o status >> and i will pick up on another point that is kind o baked into those comments, i the irony, perversely, o donald trump attacking thi prosecution as inconsisten with the rule of law, given th department of justice under hi and under bill barr, you know, to be personal for a moment, but it also, is widely known - i represented michael cohen, not -- criminal case but in the successful bid to get hi sprung from prison after he wa unlawfully remanded into solitary confinement for darin to publish a book about hi experience with former president trump. i also represented michael avenatti in a very separat matter we are confluence -- whatever you want to say about him, this was in his federal - trial. he was, as a first-tim defendant and defender, pr trial, he was also - solitary confinement and so, again, this was perversion of the rule of la under the former president so, there's a lot of irony i his statements >> there's an old statements from - latin american

that, let's not bring in prosecutor former justice department prosecutor, msnbc legal analyst andrew weissmann, andrew if you could just broaden out tha discussion of what is -- what we think will be happenin tomorrow we have two more pieces of information within the las hour or two. robert costello, michael cohen appearing tomorrow what is the timeline we ar expecting to see, roughly? >> sure. if the reporting is correct, this really is something tha is relatively unique to ne york law, which is tha somebody who is the target of grand jury investigation has the right to ask the distric attorney to present certai exculpatory evidence to th grand jurors that can be in the form of a witness. what it appears is that, although donald trump wa invited to go into the granary himself and said no, sorry, i' in new york, there is a lot of background noise >> no problem. i am as well >> that witness appears to b robert costello. we don't know if he will i fact testify we also don't know if he wil be sort of the exculpatory witness. if he in fact goes into th granary and provides exculpatory evidence we

andrew weissmann is also here, former justice department prosecutor, former senior member of robert mueller's special counsel investigation. and our friend, the former senator claire mccaskill is with us tim, andrew, and claire, all msnbc contributors ross, i start with you we don't know what we don't know, right? i mean, this is ostensibly an investigation that in these final s days has at its center h hush money payments, but just take me through what that scope of inquiry looks like, as far as newness. >> well, i think what we know so far is the fact pattern is very well established that stormy daniels had some interaction with donald trump in lake tahoe, she says it was affair, he says it wasn't. at some point, she approached him, there was some meeting of the minds, and there was an agreement made that apparently, according to michael cohen, she would receive $130,000 to sort of keep this whole matter quiet. and michael cohen then paid that money personally and donald trump, according to him, reimbursed him for that money. but you're right, nicolle, the big part of this is what we don't

i need you to come back, andrew weissmann. i want to talk to you about this dominion thing. that one also seems like a slam dunk, but i don't know because i'm not a lawyer. >>> still ahead, put on your dancing shoes, everybody. a group of inmates behind bars for their alleged roles in what we talked about, the january 6th insurrection, they have teamed up with none other than an instigator in chief donald trump to drop a new track called justice for all. no, i'm not making this up. i swear it's true. stay with us. i'll explain. ♪♪ no. ♪♪ -no. -nuh-uh. ♪♪ yeah. oh. yes. ♪♪ oh yeah. yes. isn't this great? yeeaahhhh!! ♪♪ yeah, i could do a cartwheel in here. oh hey! would you like to join us? no. we would love to join you. ♪♪ [music “this little light of mine”] in the world's poorest places, children with cleft conditions live in darkness and shame. no. we would love to join you. they're shunned, outcast, living in pain. you can reach out and change the life of a suffering child right now. a surgery that take as little as forty five minutes and your act of love can change a chi

. >> and coming up, i guess tonight for the rest of this hour, will include andrew weissmann, barbarauade, senator raphael warnock, and the host of msnbc's new hit we can show, jen psaki, all coming up after this break. you add a hotel to your flight. so you can have a bit more money, to do even less. moderate-to-severe eczema. it doesn't care if you have a date,... ...a day off,... ...or a double shift. make your move and get out in front of eczema... with steroid-free cibinqo. not an injection,... cibinqo is a once-daily pill for those who didn't respond to past treatments. and it's proven to help provide clearer skin and relieve itch fast. cibinqo continuously treats eczema whether you're flaring or not. cibinqo can lower your ability to fight infections, including tb. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections and do blood tests. tell your doctor if you've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. do not take with medicines that prevent blood clots. serious, sometimes fatal infections, lymphoma, lung, skin and other cancers

andrew weissmann, why do you say that what donald trump sai in reaction to mike pence coul be exhibit a in a defendan trump trial about january 6th? >> for a whole variety o reasons. part of it has to do wit revealing why this doesn't wor as an argument is -- one, it shows a complete lac of remorse or accountability it's typical of donald trump doubling down. with no sense that people were injured or that he could've ha any possible role. just showing an ounce of empathy. but the fundamental argument is, it's like blaming the security guard at a bank saying, it's your fault that i had to shoot you to rob the bank because yo didn't just give me the money. under his theory, 60 judge ruled against him ar responsible for what happene on january 6th everyone who voted for president biden is responsible for the violence on januar 6th. it basically is like, are -- you forced me to engage in a coup because you stood in th way of - in my way, even though you are doing it to say that we're going to comply with the law so i just think, if you ar that - lawyer where they are going to be called to

. >>> let's bring in former fbi general counsel and senior member of the mueller probe, andrew weissmann andrew, always great to talk with you this is on an historic evening i do want to go back just for a moment to the dichotomy between these federal and state charges. because i think people, we talk a lot about the campaign finance aspect of this payoff to ms. daniels, to stormy daniels but this is a state prosecutor, so a federal election isn't in his purview. what we're talking about is the same fact, the same facts that put michael cohen in prison with a federal indictment, but these are state charges. so can you just talk about that dichotomy. we don't know what these charges are, they're still sealed, but it's looking more like something like falsifying business records, lying about the purpose of the funds not a campaign finance case. is that accurate >> more or less it is. the way i used to look at this when i was a prosecutor is, i think a very human way of thinking about things which is there's a set of facts somebody you can prove has done a, b, c, and d and then at a lawyer,

neal katyal, andrew weissmann, thank you both for starting us off tonight. >> you're welcome. >> thank you >> coming, up the bide administration too extraordinary, measures as the call it, to ensure that all of the depositors in two failed banks, silicon valley an signature bank, we'll be abl to get their money out of thos banks. >> we learned the problems o the, banks and the impact they could have on jobs and small businesses and banking syste overall. i instructed my team to ac quickly to protect these interests. they've done that. they've done that. >> republicans are of course refusing to acknowledge that one of the reasons behind thes failures, the twice impeache president who signed a bill, elizabeth warren was talking about in the last hour, rollin back the regulations on banks. that's part of how thi happened and that is next. what's the big deal? what's the big deal? what's the big deal? ♪marching band music♪ ♪marching band music♪ i'll get a cart. get two! scotts daylawn saving is the biggest deal of the year. stock up early and save up to $20 dollars on the best scotts produ

so -- you know, fbi my mind right now is not looking like the andrew weissmann fbi. >> we all knew about this investigation at the same moment. it was basically when donald trump told us on the day of the serving of the search warrants at his home on august 8th, i believe it was. and andrew, i remember in our first few weeks of discussing this, as i began to emerge that how long the government had been pursuing these documents that they had been pursuing them for a year and a half -- [coughs] we start to wonder why they move so slowly. why did it take them a year and a half to get to this point? one now we know why some of those months were eaten up along the way. and i do recall, before there was a special prosecutor in this, where day brad was basically the top justice department official whose name we would see on the legal filings in the case. that you shared some kind -- concern publicly here, jay brought experience for this kind of case because mostly what they do involves -- tends to involve a collective cooperation of these kinds of documents when they stumble upon these situatio

let's let's talk to andrew weissmann. ne of the senior prosecutor on the robert mueller specia counsel investigation. andrew, what a day thank you for making time to b here tonight >> you're welcome. did it make your hair stand up the wrong way or did it or acute work you otherwise when said that this is likely to be boring i believe that these charges what we expect them to be an what we have seen of other charges even brought against donald trump in a manhatta criminal court, i feel like we ought to let people know tha this might be something that i sort of like watching pain dry. it might be a little boring. as a prosecutor who has fought many white-collar cases, doe that bother you? did i offend you >> you certainly didn't offend me, rachel i think there are a couple o points one, no matter how much on anticipates a day like this, when it actually happens there is, i think, for anybody, ther is a certain amount that i sinks in what this means i totally agree with you that former president is not immune and can be subje

our friend and former doj prosecutor andrew weissmann tweeting, it makes it inevitabl for trump to be michael cohen. how are you doing? >> i'm doing well. only you, nicolle wallace. only you can get me on the phone when i just arrive home from a grand jury, two days of grand jury testimony >> tell me what you can about the level of engagement from the -- i heard you answer a question as you were walking away that each of the grand jurors asked you questions did we hear that right >> yeah. almost each of the grand jurors. they were very involved. they were mesmerized by the prosecutor it was an easy experience, let me just say that >> i know you are going to be protective of bragg's office and you will not want to betray any of the substance let me see if i can come at it this way do you believe you were the last witness they heard from? >> i know, i don't know the answer again, i'm not involved in the inner discussions regarding the completion of this case or the length of time it will take before which bragg's office makes its determination. i would suspect i'm close to the end of th

after you and your committee chair and your committee vice chair before that, he came after andrew weissmanner. before that, he went after andrew mccabe jim comey. ending up in four criminal referrals for u.s. department of justice, if you have anything sort of from the other side of that experience to share with us today. >> look, so much of what happened on january 6th was based on the lack of faith that people have in government. the lack of faith that people have in criminal justice there were so many people there that believed that the election was stolen, that they were patriots that were rescuing democracy. part of the way we get that back, we show people that our systems are durable, that democracy works is to have accountability is to have a system that actually works to me, when the facts and the law compel an indictment, and there is accountability, that has the potential to be a restoration of faith in the system and at bottom in this country, i think what we're unfortunately dealing with is a division between those that believe in systems, believe in government, believe in media

andrew weissmann, don't go far, the minute you leave, big news will break. former governor ron desantis speaking out again calling out the ex-president in an interview, set to air on fox news, how the punches are hitting down at mar-a-lago. that's next. ♪ well, the stock is bubbling in the pot ♪ ♪ just till they taste what we've got ♪ [ tires squeal, crash ] when owning a small business gets real, progressive gets you right back to living the dream. now, where were we? [ cheering ] power e*trade's easy-to-use tools like dynamic charting and risk-reward analysis help make trading feel effortless and its customizable scans with social sentiment help you find and unlock opportunities in the market with powerful, easy-to-use tools power e*trade makes complex trading easier react to fast-moving markets with dynamic charting and a futures ladder that lets you place, flatten, or reverse orders so you won't miss an opportunity a man, his family, and his tractor, penny. these are the upshaws. and this is their playground. there's a story in every piece of land, run w

andrew weissmann, there has been a lot of talk, including some people who have come on our show and said, "boy, they shouldn't have gone first with the manhattan case. they shouldn't have gone first with the stormy case. feels like old news. georgia is more important. the documents, january 6th, these are more important." obviously, these four cases are being conducted, these investigations, by different people with different sets of facts, without concern to the others. what's your sense of the way these are rolling out and how they may impact each other as they do come down? >> well, i think, willie, your point that these are different prosecutors is key. yes, you know, if this was one prosecutor, you might ask the question, why this one first? i don't think the manhattan case is negligible, but it certainly ishmp not as serious as the eve that happened january 6th. you know, the potential overthrow of democratic presidential election or the retention of highly classified documents and obstruction of the federal investigation. but these are three separate prosecutors. this is not, like

andrew weissmann, as for the legal question, let's just start with where we are right now and what we do know. there's some talk about perhaps what the republicans are calling a business bookkeeping question could lead to something having to do with the commission of a crime in campaign finance, and that would be a felony but what do we know right now, and what happens from here >> well, by all accounts, what the manhattan district attorney has charged is related to this same set of facts that led to a part of the guilty plea that michael cohen entered in a federal court. where michael cohen admitted his guilt in part of this scheme, which was hush payments, and then falsifying, covering up those hush payments, which were made to keep information, allegedly, from the american public, voting on whether to elect donald trump or hillary clinton president. so that was the purpose of the scheme this has obviously been charged under state law after bill barr forbade the southern district from pursuing individual one, the co-conspirator with michael cohen, who it was the then president of th

joining our discussion now andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel, former chief of the colonelthe eastern division of new york, he's a professor of practice that and why law school. former u.s. attorney, a law professor at the university of michigan law school, they are both msnbc legal analysts, and andrew, what does this tell us, if true, in the new york times reporting that mr. corcoran does not expect to be taking the fifth amendment? >> well, it means he does not think that he has any criminal exposure. the standard for asserting the fifth amendment is actually fairly low, i need to have is really a good faith belief that your testimony, we tend to incriminate, you i think here, what we are likely to hear, there is reporting on, this is that he's going to say, i withhold the information, and believe the information that i put in the draft certification, and then gabe, by the way, to christina bobb to sign, which is a little suspicious as to why he didn't sign it himself. when he's going to say, this is where you wanted formation, that is the critical for the u. s. -- gover

. >> good evening, we are here at the last, weird starting off with andrew weissmann and neil -- joiningand former federal prosecutor. former federal prosecutor is now a requirement to be a guest at this hour. >> we're just surrounded by lawyers all the time because it's indictment season, it appears. not just indictment watch. it's a potential season of indictments ahead of us. >> and since monday, since monday i have been dying to ask dan goldman about something that i heard on monday. you might remember this. it's when robert costello

joining me now, garrett haake in new york, phil rucker, joyce vance and andrew weissmann.'s so many moving parties. garrett, you are in manhattan. not much movement by the hush money grand jury regarding donald trump. >> reporter: yeah, it puts me in a position to say my least favorite phrase which is that we just don't really know what's going on in that grand jury room on the fourth floor of the d.a.'s office behind me. the last time we had any true insight into what the grand jury was hearing was monday afternoon when they heard testimony from robert costello. they sent michael cohen home for the day. chose to not have him rebut costello. they didn't meet yesterday. today, they are convening, we are told, on other matters. perhaps not related to trump at all. a grand jury of this kind can do other investigative work. it could have something to do with any of the other cases. we are left to speculate. it's a very uncomfortable position to be put in as a reporter. the trump team feels confident their man, robert costello, put holes in the cases, holes that michael cohen o

joining us now, garrett haake and andrew weissmann. garrett, what goes with the grand jury?i know it's secret, we don't know. now that they heard from david pecker, potentially a rebuttal witness to shore up testimony of michael cohen about what actually happened with that payment, do we think we're getting closer to a resolution one way or the other? >> reporter: let's review why we know what we think we know. this is a grand jury where the prosecutors reached out to mr. trump and his attorneys a couple weeks ago to offer him the opportunity to come and testify or provide a witness that's a relatively unique in new york law that's typically done near the end of an investigation. trump provided that witness in the form of bob costello, a lawyer who worked with michael cohen. he testified last monday. yesterday we had a second round of testimony from david pecker, the former publisher of "the national enquirer." he was brought back to clear up testimony or perhaps rebut elements of what costello said. that's to say, every indication we have is that this grand jury could be cl

i think we might see it as to some claims here. >> andrew weissmann, what is the legal battening downthere was a blistering statement that came out today from the family of officer brian sicknick about tucker carlson again targeting the officer with lies about his condition or things he couldn't possibly have known saying he was perfectly healthy. he would die from injuries sustained that day. laura ingraham has called the officers actors, given them various awards for their acting chops in her view, i guess, to the degree that she's capable of making those judgments. and i was thinking and wondering if there is any parallel or echo to the defamation lawsuit that the sandy hook parents brought against alex jones when the lies are told so often and with such knowing sort of intent to disinform an audience. >> that is a wonderful analogy. it is heartbreaking because of what the families went through. where i see it and a real similarity and i hadn't thought that until you mentioned it, is as joyce said, we could be -- we could be seeing a case where the judge said there are no issues an

. -- i asked legal experts ryan goodman and andrew weissmann -- this investigation is serious. -- ex president would like you to believe. just listen to what -- davis, the attorney for trump's former fixer michael cohen, told my colleague symone sanders-townsend earlier today on this network. >> if this case goes forward -- and that still and if -- this case is about documents and indisputable -- case -- know what i know. >> also -- the case of so-called selective prosecution by a -- progressive da. in fact, prosecutors in new york have filed more than 100 felony counts for falsification of business record since -- took office. remember -- pleaded guilty, served time for his role in the hush money scheme. so, why should trump be treated any differently? -- play out -- against trump are not -- outside the norm. -- the thing that is required by the rule of law. to sum it up like this -- quote, in short, if mr. trump was asking for special treatment, his former job does not and should not immunize him from accountability that would be sought for anyone else. joining me now to discuss fr

andrew weissmann earlier today said that maybe alvin bragg deserves an apology. all the drama around his office, people furious, that he didn't go after trump, the two prosecutors who quit, you ran for that job against alvin bragg. what do you think? [laughter] >> well, you know stephanie, i think some accountability is better than no accountability. i also think that every crime has to be considered on its own terms. so it's not particularly useful to compare one crime to another and say what should go first, we're talking about different jurisdictions. however, it is surprising to me when we think about it nationally, all the things that trump is being investigated for for incitement to election fraud, to having classified documents, to all sorts of business frauds in new york--it is surprising that this incident from seven years ago is the first thing that is being pursued against him because that's what it looks like. and i continue to think that it is surprising that here, in new york, when there has been so much public evidence of a much more serious set of

wrongdoing calling the matter a, quote, political witch hunt let's bring in nbc news lega analyst andrew weissmannhe former council of the fb and served as lead prosecuto in the mueller special counsel's office andrew, it is good to see this morning. we had barbara quit in our las hour suggesting she believes this signal something is coming, an indictment against president trump, the former president an also that often bragged is nea the end of his investigation do you agree with that >> absolutely, not just becaus it is not a good bet to be against mcquade, there is just no way in god's green eart that the da is going to invite the target to appear voluntarily in the grand jur if the da's not thinking o bringing those charges it is something that you d only at the very last stage. yes, there is always the cas for presidents legal team coul convince them they should no bring the case but given the amount of time i the caliber of the people in a office and thinking throug this issue i think that is extremely unlikely to occur. i think we are seeing, hate to use the word eminently since w heard the

. >> andrew weissmann as always, it's great to talk to you. appreciate it. >> thank you. >>> let's talk ohio, if we can for a moment. the president saying he plans to visit east palestine at some point, as anger and frustration has not subsided after that train derailment one month ago now. biden's announcement has come as we get details from norfolk southern about how it plans to clean up the hazardous soil and the debris left behind in eastern ohio. the company's plan, it's not easing the minds of the residents there who accuse officials of lying at a town hall last night. >> we're very sorry. we feel horrible about it. >> get our grand kids out of here now. get my children out. >> let's go to east palestine. nbc news correspondent jesse kirsch standing by. there were 200 people or so at this town hall. it got really fiery, which is expect, right? these folks are understandably worried about their future, worried about their health. still symptomatic, in some way, shape or form, many of them, take us through what happened and what we're hear

. >> and, andrew weissmann, what is the importance, potentially, of costello or alvin bragg and michael cohen's credibility? >> specifically, we don't know how costello will attack what it is that michael cohen is saying about these payments. the oddity i see here, andrea, is the choice by donald trump and his team to have costello go into the grand jury. one of the key advantages that the defense has in a criminal case is surprise, and the idea that they're taking a witness who would provide important trial testimony that is sort of unknown to the government, is they're actually giving the government advance notice because they will actually get to hear what he has to say now, and they can prepare for it and potentially undermine it. so it's a curious choice, unless they thought that costello, either, a, needed to be locked in, they weren't sure whether costello would be there at the end of the day, or that his evidence is so incredibly powerful that it could avoid the possibility of an indictment. the latter seems quite unlikely, because the standard for a grand jury presentation is j

well let's hope that ther isn't any -- and there aren't any protest around the united states andrew weissmann, thank you fo joining us, karen, samson, w will just see you in just little bit, stay with us after a quick break, we'll continue our breaking news coverage on donald trump and his claims that he will be arrested this coming tuesday trump's former - and former senior adviser to former vice mexit, mike pence, olivia troye, are standing b for us we'll be right back. if i hadn't seen it in person, i wouldn't have believed it. eating is believing steph. the subway series. try subway's tastiest menu upgrade yet. lomita feed is 101 years old. when covid hit, we had some challenges. i heard about the payroll tax refund that allowed us to keep the people that have been here taking care of us. learn more at getrefunds.com. i'm not a doctor. i'm not even in a doctor's office. i'm standing on the street, talking to real people about their heart. how's your heart? my heart's pretty good. you sure? i think so. how do you know? you're driving a car? you have the check engine light, but the heart do

thank you rachel laid off our discussion tonight, andrew weissmann a former fb general counsel and former chief of the eastern division, is professor practice that and why you high all school. also with, us dan harless, former manhattan distric attorney also with karen freeman, another forme manhattan chief assistan district attorney, and catherine christine is with us a former manhattan distric attorney, let me begin wit former assistant distric attorney christian, and your assessment of what we know s far about this, including th possibility that it could be a 2:15 pm tuesday arraignment at the courthouse we should one how sean presiding >> that is what the news has been mr. trump will show up. he will surrender before h shows up to 15 for his supreme court arraignment, and he will be fingerprinted, it'll be a arrest photo taken, and yo obviously have secret servic and how they determine tha escort to the court will b will find out on tuesday and then like any other defendan faced with hand-eye meant he will be arraigned on tha indictment his attorneys will be there an hopefully he'll l

here's what former doj prosecutor andrew weissmann had to say about this earlier this week, take a listener seen anything that quick. it's very hard to know why i have to say to me what i think about what can be a possible reason. and the speculation is that there must be some thing in the papers that gave the judge's concern about national security complications. because it's such a short timeframe that there insisting on having a response here. >> what kind of national security concern might concern this judge? >> well, alex, here we go again. it's always a question of what is in these documents. this we still don't know what was in the documents that trump was keeping all along. why this really matters is that it goes back to what we all was talked about. the source of the method. is there anything in there that has to do with the identities of -- their anything that has to do with election system, what we call signals. or is there anything that has to do with what trump is actually intending to do with these? so, in the national security world. what concerns a lot of people that we st

let's bring in nbc news legal analyst, andrew weissmann. he's a former general counsel of the fbi and served as lead prosecutor in the mueller special counsel's office if the boston red sox get as many wins this year as i've heard people say, the legal walls are closing in on donald trump, the sox -- through the years, the sox will have a great year probably win 145 games, win the world series my question to you, since we know that's not going to happen, my question to you is, how is this time different than all the other times we've heard over the past five years that, quote, the walls are closing in on donald trump? >> that is a great question. the analogy is also pretty great. so i think there is a big difference here. it is hard to imagine that alvin bragg, the d.a. in manhattan, would be engaging in these kind of very public steps of having -- >> let me stop you right there for skeptics that are watching, i'm so dpglad you started with that the end of the day, alvin bragg, he's a politician, he's a d.a. he has to get elected. let me as