also with us barbara mcquade, she's a former u.s. law attorney and a professor at the university of michigan law school. she's also the co-host of the podcast hashtag sisters in law. they are both msnbc legal analysts. and andrew, then we begin with you on the first point that i was raising tonight which is the exact words, the exact words of the threats that one judge presiding over just one of the trump cases is getting. and we have those exact words because they were submitted by a court security officer as part of the file in donald trump's appeal of a gag order that was designed to ethel east reduce those threats and seem to be working at reducing those threats. jack smith now using that same document provided by that new york court security official to make the same case to the appeals court in washington, d.c., considering the gag order in that case about just how dangerous donald trump's speech is when it reaches his devoted followers who then phone in the threats to judges. >>> i think the way i think about this is i don't t

back with us, glenn kirschner and barbara mcquade.elay of that decision mean to that case? >> it means that judge cannon seems entirely willing to, sort of, casually and cavalierly let them a trial date slip. i actually think it's pretty outrageous that she would say i'm not even going to set this deadline until we meet again on march 1st. it feels like that all but guarantees the may trial date will slip. now, hopefully, lawrence, that will come as an academic issue at that point, because as we all, know in washington d. c., the trial is scheduled to begin on march 4th. and actually, jurors are coming in on february 9th to begin filling out jury questionnaires. i do think if the d. c. trial kicks off on march 4th, or it looks like it will kick off on march 4th, then on march 1st, they will all get together and probably end up picking a new trial date in the florida documents case. >> barbara mcquade, this is just one of the many examples of their countless ways in which a judge in routine decisions, seemingly routine decisions, can d

we are back with grant krishnan barber mcquade. barbaraings that could be immediately appealed. which is actually very few of them. because they want to get that's moving as fast as possible if there is going to be appeals or rulings in an attempt to not slow down the trial. >> yes, this is where the chests matchup of prequalification comes into play. and so there are two motions here that would be not subject to the normal rules that you have to wait until there is a final judgment until you can appeal the case at the end of the trial. and those are whether this case is precluded by presidential immunity or double jeopardy. i think both of those are losers, ultimately. but what jack smith is saying is because donald trump could lose in the district court, which they expect, and then appeal those before there is a trial. that could delay the trial. so judge, please decide these right away as we can just get that ruling. and that is what they're asking for here. i think if she does decide them quickly, they would be time for the court of ap

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former congressman, donna edwards, and barbara mcquade, are back with me, both. us. barbara, let's start with trump's testimony here. i'm trying to think of a movie scene that was similar to this. there were a lot that come to my mind, but just how damaging was donald trump's testimony on capitol hill? >> legally, i think it was incredibly damaging to him. it seems to me that what he is doing here is just doubling down on his theory that these properties were property valued, if anything, he said, perhaps, they were undervalued. and having these temper tantrums, i think, is really playing to the political crowd. i think he has written off having any credibility with this judge, based on the judges findings even before the trial started. and so, by going after the attorney general, and by going after the judge, and claiming bias and unfairness, he will preserve his own reputation among his followers, even after, as expected, the judge rules against him in this case. it's all about preserving his political capital, and as opposed to worrying about his legal consequ

barbara mcquade.i heard this, i mean, other than being angry, you know, of course the legal part of it kicked. and i, thought i have to ask barb about this. barb, straight to the point, is this possible? can lawmakers divest jurisdiction from the judiciary branch over something like this new amendment? >> not legally, katie, but of, course if it's a legislature, they can pass laws that do this, and then it would require a court challenge to strike it down. as you know, from the first day of law school, there is a case and constitutional law called marbury versus madison, right? i'm sure every lawyer remembers that fondly, or with nightmares. that's the case that says that it's the courts that interpret the law and decide what the law is. that is the structure of our government. i think, ultimately, this would be struck down as unconstitutional within the state of ohio. at the moment, they have the power in the states, in the gop has, the control of the legislature. they can create their own mischief i

joining me to talk about all of it is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney and university of michigan law professor. lisa rubin has been reporting on the civil fraud trial day in and day out, both are msnbc legal analysts. we have to go now, though, to the apec summit, that is where the president of the united states is with mexico's president. they have just sat down. let's listen. >> mexico and the united states stand together and work together as we've been doing. we see it in our security cooperation, we're working side by side to combat arms trafficking, to combat -- tackle organized crime, and to address the opioid epidemic and including fentanyl, which when we talked privately i want to tell you about my great conversation with xi jinping on that issue. and our economic cooperation, we're growing our economies from the bottom up and the middle out, so not just the wealthy benefit, but all our citizens benefit from our economic growth, and we see it in our work in strengthening supply chains including through america's partnership for economic

attorney barbara mcquade. thank you, barbara. we'll talk to you again soon. >>> we turn now to news overseas and today marks one month since the suhamas terrorist attack in israel. now israeli forces are severing ground from the rest of the territory. yesterday israel pounded the region with air strikes. officials say they hit 450 targets killing a number of hamas commanders. casualties are expected to rise sharply once the war turns to close urban combat. israeli media reports that troops are expected to enter gaza city soon. still, several hundred thousand people are believed today still be in northern gaza where the assaults are taking place. israel's military says there is a one-way corridor for civilians to plea the area and head south, but many are afraid to take that route. now, israel's prooem benjamin netanyahu, is continuing to reject growing calls for a cease-fire but says he is open to a short pause in the fighting in gaza. yesterday a phone call with netanyahu, president joe biden mentioned possible tactical pauses t

and you've eisman and barbara mcquade are back with us. discussed this program before, the justice department runs a carefully structured pardoning process and application process and takes years to get a pardon from the application stage into the white house. in the trump white house, it went straight to jared kushner. >> yeah, this is a violation of the rule of law. the office a pardon attorney at the department of justice has a process and has protocols for who gets a pardon and who doesn't. the person generally must have completed their sentences and the passage of five years has gone by before someone is eligible for a pardon. they need to accept responsibility for their crime, show remorse ad be conducting an otherwise productive life. those are the factors that we look. at when you look at mr. brown here, he couldn't be further from this criteria. other part is that it's being done on a favor basis, that there is uniformity to the process. that they're looking at the whole landscape across the country and deciding who or where the ca

barbara mcquade is a former attorney for the new york eastern district, msnbc legal analyst, and shens me now. let's start here. it's sort of while the family is going to sit for this. i guess the first question is obviously given the absolute constitutional right against self incrimination under the fifth amendment, that can be invoked at anytime, even in civil impeding's. we saw it during some of the questioning of the general sixth committee testimony. do we have any anticipation that any of them will invoke that right in their testimony in this civil trial? >> yeah, chris, i think it's quite possible during their depositions, donald trump in eric trump invoked their fifth amendment rights against self incrimination in this case 400 or 500 times. >> crikey. >> as you point, out there is no criminal exposure in this case because it's a civil case. but of course, anytime you see some thing under oath in court, it can be used against you anywhere, including any subsequent criminal prosecution. so that's why it might be something that they want to do rather than the line to commit per

attorney barbara mcquade. od tsee you, barb.sted a thangiving post on truth social, where he ued his attacks on judge engoron, hurlock lurked, also the general -- calling engoron psycho, the new yo. racist and by side and tells him what to do. how much do you think the appellate court is going to take all of this into account tomorrow? >> i think they should file the wise old outage that when someone shows you who they are, you should believe them. i think it matters. i think donald trump has demonstrated that he will push the limits as absolutely far as he can and then a little bit more. and so, i think that this was a very powerful filing. there is sometimes a temptation to think of threats and harassment as theoretical and maybe dangerous. but to see these words and to realize how disruptive this is to the business of the court, and the individuals involved, getting phone calls, there is a real danger here unless the court stepson. >> okay. that is the new york case. as you know, the doj is using that evidence from the new yo

barbara mcquade, thank you for your time and expertise. good to see. >> thank you, alex. tonight, including an introduction. there is someone i want you to meet, someone whose legal work against liberal causes you are undoubtedly acquainted with, perhaps even personally. more on this guy, what he's been up to, and how his work impact you. that's next. ou that's next. rsv is out there. for those 60 years and older protect against rsv with arexvy. arexvy is a vaccine used to prevent lower respiratory disease from rsv in people 60 years and older. arexvy does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients. those with weakened immune systems may have a lower response to the vaccine. the most common side effects are injection site pain, fatigue, muscle pain, headache, and joint pain. i chose arexvy. rsv? make it arexvy. my mental health was much better. but i struggled with uncontrollable movements called td, tardive dyskinesia. td can be caused by some mental health meds. and it's unlikely to improve without treatment. i felt like

donna edwards, barbara mcquade, thank you so much. appreciate it as always. democrats won big at the ballot box this week. but how can the party keep that momentum going into 2024? i'm going to speak with one of the heads of the democratic legislative campaign committee after this break, don't go anywhere. he hits his mark —center stage—and is crushed by a baby grand piano. you're replacing me? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache. only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ right now get a free footlong at subway. like the new deli heroes. buy one footlong in the app, get one free. it's a pretty big deal. kinda like me. order in the subway app today. i'm adding downy unstopables to my wash. now i'll be smelling fresh all day long. [sniff] still fresh. ♪♪ get 6x longer-lasting freshness, plus odor protection. try for under $5! (carolers) ♪ iphone 15 pro for your husband! iphone 15 pro — ♪ (wife)odor protection. carolers! to tell me you want a new iphone? a better plan is verizon. (husband) no way th

joining me now is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney, professor at the university of michigan school of law, and msnbc legal analyst. and matthew dowd, political strategist and msnbc senior political analyst. thank you for being here. barb, the question of a comma, a comma, this is why i love language, because there's a big difference between, you know, i don't have this authority. and you know i don't have this authority. so what do you make of these sort of details which are emerging from what pence has told jack smith's team? >> yeah, it's like my dearest angelica, is there a comma or not? it changes everything about the meaning. here, is it a throw away line of just, you know, i don't have authority. or you know i don't have authority. i think that matters. because it is an acknowledgment between pence and trump that pence never had the authority to do what donald trump claimed that he did. so i think it's a really important point. and it's refreshing, i think, that mike pence is providing helpful, sounds like truthful info

joining us now is barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan. ith us. thank you so much for making time for us. we talked about this in the past. delay, delay, delay. we see it now in the classified documents case, basically is this inevitable at this point? how do you interpret today's decision? it appears that trump's team might not expect judge cannon to grant a delay, but then you have the statement released by trump's campaign spokesperson saying we look forward to the conference set by judge cannon for next march where future scheduling matters including a potential trial date will be discussed. trump's legal team, doesn't have reason to believe that they might get what they want from this judge? >> i think so. we don't know for sure, but as you said, no doubt the strategy for the trump team is all about delay. if they could get this pushed past the election, and if, for some reason, don trump should be elected president, he controls all the cards. he could have both of these cases in federal court dismissed. that is the name of the game he

attorney barbara mcquade. hillyard and the host of "way too early" jonathan lemire. vaughn, you've been covering this very closely. it is striking to see these two attorneys, these two women who were so brash during the 2020 election with their claims of a stolen election being humbled now that the law has caught up to them and they've cut a deal with prosecutors. >> what is so striking is to see these two on video saying this and this is the part that i keep coming back to. i was at trump's counter rally to the debate last week down in miami there, and folks to this day -- i mean, one gentleman telling me that he's locked and loaded, ready to go, a real hot civil war in his words. you know why? it's because of people like jenna ellis and sidney powell, standing there presser after pressing suggesting she was going to release a crack and there was an international cabal at the heart of overturning the election. jenna ellis, in arizona she was down there with rudy giuliani making the case to speaker rusty bower

barbara mcquade, always good to talk with you. time. >> thank you, alex. >> coming up, israeli troops spent a second day searching al-shifa hospital in gaza for evidence of a hamas headquarters. what they found and what they didn't find is next. (aidyl) hi, i'm aidyl, and i lost 90 pounds on golo. i struggled with weight loss and weight gain my entire life. with all the yo-yo dieting i did in the past, i would lose 20, 30, 50 pounds just to gain them over and over again. thanks to golo, i've been able to steadily go down the sizes in my closet and keep the weight off. for the first time in forever, i feel in control. (announcer) change your life at golo.com. that's golo.com. >> tonight, airstrikes continue throughout the gaza strip, which has now lost all cell phone internet connectivity under complete blackouts due to a lack of fuel. it comes as israeli troops spent a second day searching gathers main al-shifa hospital. despite claims by the u.s. and the u.s. government, the search thus far has failed to produce evidence of a ham

barbara mcquade, thank you for being here.ays appreciate you. >> thank you, katie. >> of course. coming up next, the kids are still all right. we will take a deep dive into the latest nbc news poll showing young voters showing enthusiasm to vote next november and what democrats must do to lock up the support of that crucial voting bloc ahead of decision 2024. keep it right here. you are watching msnbc. it right here you are watching msnbc you are watching msnbc ma, ma, ma— ( clears throat ) for fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops. with two times more menthol per drop, and powerful vicks vapors to vaporize sore throat pain. vicks vapocool drops. vaporize sore throat pain. (aidyl) hi, i'm aidyl, and i lost 90 pounds on golo. vicks vapocool drops. i struggled with weight loss and weight gain my entire life. with all the yo-yo dieting i did in the past, i would lose 20, 30, 50 pounds just to gain them over and over again. in one year, i've lost five sizes, and i'm on my way to lose another three. with golo, i can do

attorney, and msnbc legal analyst, barbara mcquade. kudos to my producer for getting the sound bytes in, and you, lisa rubin for pointing out the last one when it comes to violence. can i ask you a little bit more about the arguments, excuse me, that donald trump's team was making. ken alluded to it, he should be able to say what he wants on social media, on a rally, and the judges, how do they make that decision between political speech, i'm going to say whatever i want, i'm going to defend myself, and witness intimidation. >> it's not just witness intimidation, it's participant intimidation, and their concern isn't just the witnesses but the prosecutors in the case, the courtroom personnel, and even the jurors, and one of the things of particular concern to the special counsel's offices is how will some of this criticism of other participants in the process, including witnesses, how will that be perceived by jurors so even if you, katy tur, as a witness aren't intimidated. if i lisa rubin, a juror, walk away with a different impressi

attorney, barbara mcquade to talk about all of this.tart with tom, and double back to georgia later on. this goes to the heart of hunter biden's defense that it was all politically motivated. how difficult is it to prove something like this? >> it's a pretty high bar, yasmin, and i think it's not terribly likely that hunter biden will succeed here. he's arguing either selective prosecution or vindictive prosecution. selective prosecution is an equal protection clause violation. it means that you are charging only on the basis of some discriminatory factor, like race, religion, and another arbitrary factor. that could include politics. you have to show they intended to violate the equal protection rights, and others that were similarly situated were also prosecuted. you have to show that you are prosecuted for exercising some legal rights, so sometimes someone takes an appeal, and then after they appeal, the case goes back for a retrial, and the person is treated more harshly to get back at them for exercising that right. again, i don't

attorney barbara mcquade., what more did we hear from eric trump, and what kind of questioning do we anticipate today? >> reporter: and before i get into what we heard from eric, i want to talk about what's happening in the courtroom right now because we're hearing more about the law clerk. the judge opening up the proceedings today, and i want to read from our notes from our producer. unless there is a real reason you should not mention members of my staff. remember, there's a partial gag order in the case, the judge saying the former president cannot disparage, talk about any members of his staff. he said yesterday he might expand that to attorneys over this similar back and forth we're hearing now. chris kise, trump's attorney saying how do i make complaints. the judge saying there's no bias here. he says i won't pound the table, but i reserve every right to talk to my clerk. he's referring to yesterday when he it pound on the table in his frustration. all the while this was happening yesterday, eric trump

joining me now, barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney for the eastern district of michigan.o help understand this net effect of all this. given, we know the three appointees, the three judges are appointed by democratic presidents, that should be an indicator, but these days it may be tends to be. what are the chances that appeals court finds for trump? they agree that they findhi gag order sensorial? >> i think a low probabity. a judge can impose the complete gag order on the parties if they find necessary to do that, to ensure the fair administration of justice. the classic case is the sam ard case out of ohio, the daughter accused of killing his wife which became a circus. the court they are held that if it's necessary to prevent the trial from becoming a circus like atmosphere, a judge can issue a gag order to maintain control over the case. with the judge in thiscase has allowed for donald trump is an awful lot of leeway. he can talk about joe biden the biden administration, about doj, about the case, he can even talk about the judge herself. he just can't target indivi

barbara mcquade, always good to talk with you.li troops spent a second day searching al-shifa hospital in gaza for evidence of a hamas headquarters. what they found and what they didn't find is next. find is next. i would say that we're closer than the average mother daughter. hi mom! if i lost my mom.... i can't think about that for too long. i was like, "whoa, mom, i have this gene!" kenzie's test and me being able to find out that i was brca positive was lifesaving. the holidays wouldn't be worth celebrating without my family. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ [bell ringing] and doug says, “you can customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual.” he hits his mark —center stage— and is crushed by a baby grand piano. are you replacing me? with this guy? customize and save with liberty bibberty. he doesn't even have a mustache! oh, look! a bibu. [limu emu squawks.] only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty. ♪ i'm orlando and i'm living with hiv. i don't have to worry about daily hiv pills because i switc

barbara mcquade, always good to talk to you. >>> coming up israeli troops spent a second day searching the al-shifa hospital in gaza for evidence of a hamas headquarters. what they found and did not find is next. what they found and did not find is next. >>> tonight air strikes continue throughout the gaza strip krsh which has now lost all cellphone and internet connectivity under complete blackout due to a lack of fuel. it comes as israeli troops spent a second day searching gaza's main al-shifa hospital. despite claims by the u.s. and israeli governments, the search thus far has failed to produce evidence of a hamas command headquarters operating on hospital grounds. today nbc's raf sanchez filed this report. >> reporter: this, israel says, is the proof it's been searching for, releasing video today it claims is hamas tunnel shaft on the grounds of al-shifa, gaza's largest hospital. we can confirm this opening is located near the hospital. >> there's an ak-47. >> reporter: both israel and the u.s. say hamas operate a command center under al-shifa. israel says there'll be more evidenc

barbara mcquade is an msnbc legal analyst and she joins me now. so let's start here.t's sort of wild the whole family's going to sit for this. i guess the first question is obviously you have an absolute constitutional right against self-incrimination in the fifth amendment. that can be evoked any time and even in civil proceedings. we saw people do it in questioning during the january 6th committee testimony. do we have any anticipation any of them will invoke that right in the testimony in the civil trial sph. >> yeah, chris, i think it's quite possible. during their depositions donald trump and eric trump invoked their right in this case 400 or 500 times. and so as you point out there is no criminal exposure in this case because it's a civil case, but of course any time you say something under oath, in court it can be used against you anywhere including any subsequent criminal prosecution, so that's why it might be something that they want to do rather than lie and commit perjury or say something that might expose themselves to criminal prosecution. but one thing t

joining us now, vaughn hilliard and barbara mcquade, and she's also a msnbc legal analyst.now about these conversations? >> these statements are regulatory, and the fact they are on camera makes it more significant. for the public at large, including the millions of trump loyalists, these were two individuals at the forefront of the so-called stop the steal effort. you have sidney powell that vowed to release the crackin, in her words, or show an orchestrated cabal to give biden the presidency. it's notable that sidney powell testified in her statements here that were with prosecutors, meant to be truthful and accurate. you heard jenna ellis say trump did not intend to leave the white house. and then another trump attorney, he was the orchestrater of the false elector scheme. he said he met with donald trump at the white house and advised trump about the fake slate of electors scheme. this is notable because there are questions as to the extent where donald trump was aware of the effort to send the fake slate of electors to washington, d.c. >> according to "the posts," and

attorney and law professor, barbara mcquade, and phil rucker, national editor for "the washington postra, it's not clear whether don junior is going to take the stand. how useful or damaging could this testimony be for the adult children and for the organization? can they just plead the fifth and do that repeatedly, hundreds of times? >> i think it's going to be interesting to watch this. as we are seeing now, trial schedule management is more art than science. often times, despite the best planning effort, some testimony goes longer or shorter because of the cross examination of the opposing counsel that you can't really control or gauge. eventually, we will see all three trump -- the oldest trump children take the stand, as well as donald trump himself. i think it will be interesting to watch with regard to your question about invoking the fifth. this is a civil case and they cannot be prosecuted criminally. their statements under oath in this case could be used against them in some subsequent criminal case. for that reason, they are entitled to take the fifth if they want to in answ

donna edwards, barbara mcquade, janet griswold -- and all star panel weighing in, tonight, eight pm easterncts. proven over 90% effective, shingrix is a vaccine used to prevent shingles in adults 50 years and older. shingrix does not protect everyone and is not for those with severe allergic reactions to its ingredients or to a previous dose. an increased risk of guillain-barré syndrome was observed after getting shingrix. fainting can also happen. the most common side effects are pain, redness and swelling at the injection site, muscle pain, tiredness, headache, shivering, fever, and upset stomach. ask your doctor or pharmacist about shingrix today. liberty mutual customized my car insurance and i saved hundreds. with the money i saved, i started a dog walking business. oh. [dog barks] no it's just a bunny! only pay for what you need. ♪liberty. liberty. liberty. liberty.♪ diabetes can serve up a lot of questions, like, "what is your glucose?" and "can you have more carbs?" before you decide... with the freestyle libre 2 system know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks

donna edwards, barbara mcquade, janet griswold -- and alter panel weighing in, tonight, eight pm easternnna be sweet! what? i'm 12 hours short. - have a fun weekend. - ♪ unnecessary action hero! unnecessary. ♪ - was that necessary? - no. neither is a blown weekend. with paycom, employees do their own payroll so you can fix problems before they become problems. - hmm! get paycom and make the unnecessary, unnecessary. - see you down the line. (christina) with verizon business unlimited, i get 5g, truly unlimited data, and unlimited hotspot data. so, no matter what, i'm running this kitchen. (vo) make the switch. it's your business. it's your verizon. with the freestyle libre 2 system, know your glucose level and where it's headed. no fingersticks needed. manage your diabetes with more confidence. freestyle libre 2. try it for free at freestylelibre.us >> that is all the time i have for today. i'm alicia menendez, i want to thank you for spending part of your saturday with us. be sure to follow the show across social media. ouhandle is at alicia on msnbc, i'm going to see you back here tomo

attorney barbara mcquade, and former manhattan assistant district attorney catherine christian, so vaughnave heard before from former president trump. >> reporter: yes, it's a lot of what we heard him say inside the courtroom and on the record. there was a question whether the donald trump we see on the campaign stage and social media was going to be the same donald trump inside of the courtroom, and we can now say after hours of him being on the stand that the answer to that was, absolutely, yes. multiple times donald trump's own lawyers were told by the judge to, quote, control their client and to get him to actually answer in a concise fashion. instead, donald trump gave long winded, quasi tangential responses to the new york attorney general's questions. in the last few minutes is when the prosecution essentially ended their questioning here a bit early of donald trump and the final witness that they are going to call forward is ivanka trump here this wednesday. at that point, the prosecution will all but rest their case. it will then be the defense team's turn, and on monday is when