until you start having a relationship, ain't no will become big pimp man will bebeco song cry and with depth which will become venus vs. mars which you see the growth in the music. a lot of times, you don't. but for the most part, unless you -- >> charlie: i can see growth in your music. [applause] >> charlie: tell us the story whithink it had to do with clarity -- moments of clarity when eminem came to you and he was wearing a bulletproof vest and that said what to you? >> it said that his life was going in the wrong trajectory because he was arguably the biggest recording artist on the planet at that time -- he had sold 10 million records here and maybe 18 million world wide, and you know, i know eminem is -- he's more of a underground rapper like he just loves rap in its purist sense -- i'm not speaking for him, i didn't think he had the stomach for some of the other things and being thrown into that, it was sad for me. >> charlie: what did you say to him? >> it wasn't really my business. he came to produce a song, "the moment of clarity" on black album and i thought to myself, man,