why was bill barr okay with that. in this case you refused to do what bill barr wanted you to do.om then, by the way, and it is interesting when i was writing the book, i saw it conflates the various events the cases that i was working on, we arrested jeffrey epstein two weeks later. who was the beneficiary of a secret non-prosecution agreement in the southern district of florida ten years earlier. >> do you think it is coincidence that people that did the sweetheart deal that you malign as leaving so many of epstein's victims without recourse and ends up in trump's cab innocent and that is a just a coincidence. >> i think it is a coincidence. >> no, i'm talking about the agreement. >> it was an abomination. >> and you seek to find a narrower wear to hold jeffrey epstein -- >> barr didn't interference with our jeffrey epstein prosecution. i didn't have any communications with him at all. >> did he celebrate the guilty verdict? well he killed himself in jail. was everyone on board with your pursuit of justice? >> we handled the epstein case very quietly. we were interviewing witnes

and it is very different from the bill barr we saw during the russia investigation. i think that's what you're getting at. and that is true. >> and dana, let me phenomenon up. as you know, another former trump official, the former cia director mike pompeo, has also weighed in right now, telling real clear politics the fbi search was a political act but that, quote -- and i'm quoting him now, "anybody who takes classified information outside of the places it is supposed to be should give that information back. that includes presidents, former presidents." how notable is it that both pompeo and barr have rebuked trump on this? >> very notable. the difference between bill barr and mike pompeo, though, is mike pompeo in that interview also admitted that he has teams already on the ground in iowa and new hampshire as he considers running for president in 2024. if he decides to go ahead and do that, he's likely going to be running against his former boss, donald trump, in the republican primary. so that is a very different dynamic when you hear mike pompeo, what he said, t

this is the bill barr we were expecting.o if while on office, we can't give him a pass but he's made a drastic turn around here. >> you can tell he did because donald trump tore him up on truth social. >> i don't think those guys hang out very much anymore. natasha and ellie, thank you so much for being with us today. >>> scientists making a major breakthrough in the fight to save coral in the caribbean. the new and exclusive cnn reporting this morning. >>> and harry enten is hard at work on this labor day. we have the numbers behind the holiday next. cool. because the tempur-breeze° transfers heat away from your body... ...so you feel cool, night afafter night. for a limited time, save up to $700 on select* tempur-pedicic adjustable mattress sets. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ trelegy for copd. [couing] ♪ birds flyin' high, you know h i feel. ♪ ♪ breeze driftin' on by... ♪ if you've been playing down your copd,... ♪ it's a new dawn, it's a new day,... ♪ ...it's time to make a stand. start a new day with trelegy. ♪...and i'm feelin' good. ♪ n

when bill barr took over as u.s. attorney general, in february 2019, six months after cohen's guilty plea, he not only tried to kill the ongoing investigations we were engaged in, but incredibly, he suggested that cohen's conviction on campaign finance charges should be reversed. barr summoned my deputy who was overseeing the cohen case, in late february to challenge the basis of cohen's plea as well as the reasoning behind pursuing similar campaign finance charges against other individuals. he was told to cease all investigative work on the campaign finance allegations until main justice determined there was a legal basis for the campaign finance charges to which cohen pled guilty and until barr determined there was a sufficient federal interest in pursuing charges against others. the directive bill barr gave my deputy, which was amplified that same day by a follow-up call from edward o'callaghan, that was explicit. not a single investigative step could be taken, not a single document in our possession could be revi

agreeing with bill barr.hand, bill barr was his staunchest neighbor at one point. acting like his private attorney. but on the other hand, because of the egregiousness of donald's behavior, even people like bill barr cannot say with him anymore. in the window of opportunity for donald to come out of this is closing because of the seriousness of the potential charges that are coming his way. and what have we seen in the past? he goes to violence. when he said that president biden was calling for political violence, he was as usual, projecting. that was what donald's going to be calling for as he gets more and more cornered. >> mary, i want to shift gears. we'll listen to biden's primetime speech, we had the urgency in the strength behind his message, and you started a pack a while ago, the democracy defence fund, analysts sounds like you're predicting that democracy needed to be defended. can you tell us a bit about the candidates that the pack has been supporting, and what your thoughts are about the upcoming

>> yeah, i have given up trying to cycle analyze bill barr. i think abby hit the nail on the head there. this is a person, let's not forget despite what he's done over the last couple months, he spent two years lying to us, lying to congress, lying to the american public. trying to get trump out of trouble, destroying the facts, destroying the law, spreading conspiracy theories. he was one of the biggest proponents of the election fraud theory in the months leading up to the election. now, as abby said, he had a certain point. i guess everybody has got their breaking point where he said i'm willing to go this far, i'm willing to bend the truth this far, by a certain point, i think bill barr realize it was over. the election was over. donald trump was out, he was out. and i think bill barr made a move that at a minimum was designed to serve his own self interest, is rational self interest, saying i need to make a break, i won't use his language, but bs, bs. and we're seeing that even now on his comment on the special master. >> mr. sale, there

when you've lost bill barr.with some of our favorite reporters and friends. charlie savage is here, author of a definitive piece of reporting about this very moment. frank figliuzzi is also here, former fbi assistant director for counterintelligence, both msnbc contributors. charlie, you have the reporting that really, frankly, bill barr makes some of the same points as some of the experts you talked to, but they don't have any sort of political affiliation or association. take us through your reporting on yesterday's decision. >> sure. well, i called many, many experts in criminal law, white-collar law, who are constitutional law, separation of powers experts, people who have dealt with special masters as former prosecutors, as defense attorneys, and i could not find anyone who was a serious lawyer immersed in this area who thought this was the correct decision. as your intro pointed out, people thought that the extension of a special master to executive privilege was unprecedented and just without legal basis.

and if you have lost bill barr, and bill barr is -- god. is the downside, the delay. going to the court of appeals takes time. trump will then go to the supreme court, and take more time. i think he will lose in these places but that is a long time, possibly even years. the second option is seek clarification. go to the judge, and the judge obviously ba shift things. she said the current president biden has not waived executive privilege. -- by the government, the solicitor general, had a -- document from -- new my way of executive privilege by that. and could then you would enjoy saying, ask her to narrow the scope of the injunction, so that the investigation can proceed. downside, this judge doesn't seem all that amenable to reconsideration or logic. -- last option, most intriguing. the justice department can move this case to washington d. c.. this judge wrote su this judge wrote su es, you might he cases. so, judge cannon is really an extreme version. return to school. eto o'rourke was there. like quickly before we go, weissmann, w icip

yamiche: it is a window into what bill barr said, which is it is not just forgetting your library cardnd tang it with you. this is really big, incredibly important documents. there's also this fight over the special master. talk a little bit about how this might impact the doj's investigation, how it might stall it given the fact the judge is saying they should not have access to the documents. devlin: the judge has basically told the government you cannot use the classified information you took from mar-a-lago. what we have just seen is the justice department has filed a response saying you have to undo that restriction because we can't do the work we need to do to protect national security without restriction in place. their argument is, one, there could be more stuff out there we have not found, and if we can't look at the stuff we have found, we might not be able to trace it back to other things that might be out there. that's important because they have not made that suggestion before. the other part of it is, there is a damage assessment happening right now. the government said i

the book you said you had a secret team of lawyers ready to go to sue the justice department, sue bill barr, so the president, whoever it takes to fight this filing. >> that's right. i ended up not doing it because i think that barr realized he didn't want the president a very open fight on this issue so close to the election. so they just surrendered. >> the book is full of so much more than what we are able to cover here tonight including the definitive story of how jeffrey epstein was finally convicted and sent to prison. you have the story of a rap star getting involved with a gang who then turns and testifies against the gang and has to sleep in your conference room, because it is too dangerous. >> yes a cooperating witness slept in our conference room so when he testified he didn't have to go outside on the street, he could walk across the bridge into the courtroom. >> the lessons for anyone who wants to grow up into this field are in this book in a very accessible way, with a brilliant editing of my friend scott moyers, which makes it such a great read. i wanted to go through it the

does bill barr today change any of that?o those folks who aren't 100% loyal to donald trump. the folks who were 100% loyal to donald trump and believe everything he says are never going to be swayed by what bill barr says. so from a political per spelktive, no, they're not going to be swayed by this at all. but in the general court of public opinion i think having bill barr, former attorney general coming out and saying basically this idea he could, you know, willy-nilly declassify documents is garbage is certainly something that folks are going to, you know, pay attention to, you know, beyond the folks that just are blindly loyal to trump. >> jim schultz, george conway, to have you both here tonight. thank you. >>> out front next president biden sharpening his mid-term message warning republicans who refuse to accept the 2020 election results are a threat to democracy. if that message, though, breaking through? >> plus it's a story you'll see first on out front. one town at the center over a bitter battle over books. activi

this is the former attorney general bill barr. i want to play for everyone what he said about the mar-a-lago investigation on fox news. listen to this. >> let me just say i think the driver on this from the beginning was, you know, loads of classified information sitting in mar-a-lago. people say this was unprecedented. well, it's also unprecedented for a president to take all this classified information and put them in a country club, okay. and how long is the government going to try to get that back, you know? they jawboned for a year. they were deceased on the voluntary actions taken. they then went and got a subpoena. they were deceased on that, they feel. and the facts are starting to show that they were being jerked around. so how long do they wait? >> you know, nick, i want to come back to you in one microclimate on this point. but laura, on your end, the fact that bill barr is coming out pretty forcefully against trump on fox news, i wonder what message this might send? keep in mind, as we all know, this is somebody who ha

those were bill barr's words as former attorney general.ill also say as someone who has been out on the campaign trail talking to voters recently, i think this is something that i think people across the country are paying attention to. this idea that former president trump was not diligent in safeguarding the secrets of this country and it shows the recklessness on the part of him and if you're a critic of former president trump on the campaign trail and this shows you even more who is in office in 2024. if you're a republican in this country there's still a faction of loyal trump supporters who see this as the fbi overreaching and when you read this article you understand how important it was to the doj. >> andrew weissmann, i also think that there are some patterns now that i think we can take into the full picture that when it comes to donald trump, the fbi does not overreach. they do what they have to do to try to ensure that the rule of law and the united states of america is preserved. and as we gain more visibility, perhaps, this ma

bill barr there. saying that he thinks the government is close to having enough evidence to indict trump. do you think he's right? >> absolutely. there is enough evidence just based on the fact that he has all this classified documents, and then when they try to get them from him, he basically concealed them. we don't really know the full extent of all this. but just the possession, and knowing the possession of these documents is a violation of the act. that's the problem, the espionage act covers a wide range of activity. starting with knowing possession, to right up to the point to providing the information to a foreign adversary. we don't really know where on the spectrum donald trump really fits on this. and that's gonna make a big difference in terms of informing the decision by the department of justice, whether they indict, if they indict, on what they indict, and how serious the indictment becomes. the more you get closer to one end of the spectrum, the more palatable it is to be able to brin

but why is bill barr going out there day after day to hit donald trump who he so vociferously defended for so long? and why is the republican party at least in its somewhat serious way, mr. barr whom we've reported has come up short on certain issues, is still a serious person. an attorney general in two different administrations. why is this wing of the party taking a real hard second look at all the nuclear secrets that were allegedly stolen and then pried back out of mar-a-lago. well, let's bring in some experts who are part of the serious wings of various operations. the former u.s. attorney for the famed sdny. full disclosure, happen to be my former boss. and the former counter intelligence and national security analyst. good to see you both. given your expertise in intelligence, your assessment of what it means that that talking in issue was in some of the documents, and do you agree with some of the officials we just quoted who again, before you even get to the law, say this is bad? dangerous, or do you think it is somehow overheated? >> if i were asked to place a value or give

former attorney bill barr live onset here.nt breaks down the latest in this saga. hi, david. >> hi, martha good to be with you. all is in the hand of bill barr's successor merrick garland at the department of justice. merrick garland's team to decide if doj will file an appeal to this ruling by judge aileen cannon. right now the department of justice cannot continue the investigation into the former president for this judge's order while they wait to appoint a special master. this is a live look outside of the 11th circuit court of appeals in atlanta if the department of justice appeals a three-judge panel with the circuit court of appeals in atlanta to hear the case. of the 11 active judges on the circuit court market six appointed by donald trump. a doj spokesman tells fox news that the government is looking over the order by judge aileen cannon of south florida for 2020 appointee. no word on that appeal from doj. canon wrote yesterday in a labor day order, "the special master shall be appointed to seize the property, manage

>> first of all, i've never met bill barr. i can tell you i think all of us agree he does remain steadfast in one thing, and that's the principle of protecting presidential power and presidential authority. i think we can agreen that, that that is where he's coming from and that's where this kind of refreshing view emanates from. what most people have a problem with -- and just make it as simple as possible for people. when you have merrick garland and many others who echo that term like you tell your children, no one is above the law, but then you see not once, but twice, bill barr, the same perso person, when he talks about the mueller investigation and he talks about the obstruction of justice, and the evidence is clear there is evidence to charge someone with obstruction of justice, that has not happened. then you heard in his statement today, the question should be, should a former president, even if the evidence rised to beyond probable cause, should a former president be indicted? for me, the answer should be yes. now,

notable comments from bill barr. elie, joshua, thank you for breaking that down for us. >>> we have new signs that inflation might be slowing down, but a big question still to remain is, is it enough to change the mind of the federal reserve chair? it's also been five days and many people in jackson, mississippi, still don't have water. will the federal government deliver a fix? that's a “club” i want to join! let's hear from simone. chuck, t that's a club i want to join! i literally just said that. i like her better than you the new subway series. what's your pick? bother the bugs... gotcha. ...not your family. zevo is made with essential oils which attack bugs' biologal systems. it gets rid of the bugs plus is safe for use around people and ts. zevo. people-fridly. bug-deadly. (vo) get business internet from verizon, the network businesses rely on. ditch cable and switch to verizon business internet, with fast, reliable solutions, nationwide. find the perfect solution for your business. from the network businesses

it's remarkable to hear bill barr say that. the guy who, you know, cleaned up the mueller report and twisted what the mueller report said and put it out in front of the american public. it just really is quite a world that we're in that bill barr is now saying, look, this is really bad. this is really damning for the president to a fox news audience, no less. i can't imagine the emails and angry tweets bill barr is getting after throwing that all out there, nicole. >> there will be no violence for him here, but neal, i want to come to you on this serious point that everyone's getting at and that's not just that trump does not have a possession of the records and the classified do you means and neither do his lawyers at this point that we know about and in terms of lying on his behalf when he's out there saying, no, i kept my classified stuff in cartons. they weren't on the floor. they confessed that there were crimes under investigation. >> his lawyers made one of them, and it was reported that she sign happened a document sayi

it's a voice for a lot of republicans who have known bill barr in this space for a long time. . >> barr of course, started as attorney general, and shaping and helped trump by his side. you're right, he stepped away in december 2020. he said he wouldn't have any claims of voter fraud which he, of course, knew were not true. we saw his testimony in the january 6 committee hearings as well. he's not been shy by criticizing what is. happening now after trump left office. and of course, his raid at mar-a-lago. alayna treene, thank you as always. we'll talk to you again soon. i want to thank all of you for getting up "way too early" on this wednesday morning. "morning joe" starts right now. >>> this was not just extreme carelessness with classified material. which is still totally disqualifying. this is calculated, deliberate, premeditated misconduct, followed by a cover-up. >> what he did is illegal. it's classified information. >> he broke the law, it's very simple. i mean, as much as it's going to be broken, this is highly classified. that's the highest stage. it's highly classif

he's already written off bill barr.at the cia earlier in his career, so he probably has a better personal understanding of the nature of these classified documents than a lot of the other president's supporters or some of his lawyers who have never worked with this material before. there's also the factor that some things are almost impossible to excuse. yes, we could have said that about many things in the past. bill barr also was not a fan of what happened on january 6th. but in this case, if you look at the affidavit that went to the judge who authorized the search and seizure, if you look at the government's filings in the special master case, this is not a close call. this is not a matter of fine legal judgment. there is essentially no case for the former president because all of these records are presidential records and as the former president, he has no title or right to possess them. so, the former attorney general of the united states, no matter how politicized he was on some issues, he cannot look at those do

from bill barr, what is the impact? my book, of course, to be clear is very critical of bill barr and i think we have to keep in mind that during his tenure as attorney general, baierl was a wildly dishonest operator. he covered up for donald trump. he cheerloaded some of donald trump's political talking points and conspiracy theories, so you take that same person and now we see what he's saying and i think really makes his comments resonate even more strongly. this is a trump longtime partisan and loyalist, but let's also remember bill barr has had experience as attorney general, twice. he's actually one of two people ever who served as a.j. twice, once in the early '90s under george w. bush and of course now under donald trump. he's able to understand the position that doj was in here. he understands that doj got dragged out and slow-played for over a year, that they tried to subpoena, they still didn't get all the document, and i think bill barr is able to put himself back in the seat at doj and say what would any ra

government also details what happened when bill barr tried to push him out. it told my colleague nicole walsh about the strategy. >> at the very end of my tenure there was a situation where barr was going to impose an outsider who he trusted in charge of the southern just checked of new york. and at that point, i went public. >> he played some killer office politics! >> i don't think there's a president in department of justice for what i did. i sent out a press release and i stole the entire country what barr was trying to do, how we crossed the line, and i use language for the obstruction of justice statute. very intentionally. and it was because of that very noisy exit that are backed down. >> now in the end, barr did fire berman but berman was able to put his trust deputy in charge. and as he told rachel maddow last night, the reason for that was exactly what it looked like. berman was a threat to trump and his agenda. >> how was your work as u.s. attorney threat to trump's reelection. >> at the time i was fired, the southern district of new york was worki

i don't think bill barr did that. you know, i voted to confirm bill barr. i have also ultimately said it was one of two or three that if i could take back, i would because it was pretty clear very soon afterwards that he was not going to represent the department. he was not going to be that independent voice that i thought would instill the integrity, but he would be doing the bidding. it was improper at the time. and as i think mr. berman said, what happened before the election is a completely different than what we see with bill barr. afterwards, he was on his way out the door. >> stewart, the thing is, you know, there is this thing that donald trump does. he either finds people who are corruptible or he corrupts them. it's hard to understand which it is. with barr, though, he wrote a memo, applying for the job, essentially saying please, sir, put me in coach. i'll save you from the mueller probe. outlined how he would do it in a memo, got the job, and came in and acted as the attack dog for the united states. something richard nixon really wanted his att

and that is bill barr. here is what he said about trump's claims about the classifying the documents. >> i frankly am skeptical of this claim that i declassified everything. because frankly, i think it's highly improbable. and second, if in fact he stood over scores of boxes. not really knowing what was in there. and saying i hereby declassifying everything in here that would be such an abuse. and show such recklessness, that it's almost worse than taking the documents. how long is the government going to try to get that back? they ben jawbone for a year. they've been deceived on the voluntary actions taken. they then went and got a subpoena. they were so deceived on that. they feel, and the facts are starting to show that they were being jerked around. and so, how long do they wait? >> so i mean, are you surprised by barr's support of the doj? >> i am, everything he says i agree with 100%. it's accurate it's right. ? it's a correct assessment of the law. in the facts. but it is stunning to hear william bar

bill barr hasin broken with tru. obviously, we saw in the january 6th hearings. >> he said he would vote for them again. he's broken with him in terms of his testimony against him and what het believes about the electione but also been not apologetic to say he'd vote for them again. >> for that reason, it was absolutely stark and bracing to hear him say this stuff on fox news because according to his view of the orsituation, donald trump is in big, big trouble, katy. >> let's see if he would still vote for him and i would note to linger on this bill barr has a broad view of executive privilege. >> that's right. absolutely true. >> thanks very much. >>> still ahead, how the nation's poorest state, the same one in the middle of a water crisis now skanlderred millions of dollars in federal welfare funds some going to nfl hall of famer brett favre. >>> should they repeat a grade, what the pandemic did to kids and reading and math? the education of secretary joins me. >> he pointed aec gun at her fa andgu pulled the trigg

>> you mentioned bill barr, for anyone who missed the soundbite, we played a little bit a bit earlier, let's take a listen to what he said. this is on fox news, that he gave yesterday, take a listen. >> i personally think for them to have taken things to the current point they probably have pretty good evidence. but that speculation. i think the drive around this from the beginning was, you know, loads of classified information sitting in mar-a-lago. people think it's unprecedented, it's also unprecedented for a president to take all this classified information and put it in a country club, okay? and how long is the government going to take to take that back? they jawbone for a year. they were deceived on the voluntary actions taken. they then went and got a subpoena. they were deceived on that. they feel. and the facts are starting to show that they were being jerked around. so how long do they wait? >> luke, last question to you. that is bill barr, given how he stuck him standing by the president all the way through his ten year as attorney general, until he wasn't. are you supply t

bill barr is the ultimate unitary executive guy. in his view the president has the ultimate power in the executive branch. i'm sure he is of the view the president has unlimited power to declassify. but what bill barr is saying there is an important distinction. even if the president has unlimited power to declassify, there is no evidence and plenty of counter of evidence to this notion that he actually did it. you can have the power but if you didn't exercise it when you were president, you can't exercise it now in 2022. i agree with bill barr on that and i agree with him on the earlier clip that we played. he can understand as a former attorney general that basically doj got strung along over a year, jawboned to use his colorful expression. i think he's right when he essentially concludes doj had no choice but to go in and execute that search warrant. >> and carrie, one other thing he said, bill barr, the whole idea of a special master is a red herring and a waste of time. part of his reasoning is the justice department has alread

here is what trump's former attorney general, bill barr, as in the bill barr -- here is what he had to say about the whole mar-a-lago ordeal. >> i think that whole idea of a special master is a bit of a red hearing herring. even if they are subject to executive privilege they still belong to the government. >> he's there and the legitimate reason for those materials to be in the former presidents possession? >> no. i cannot think of a legitimate reason why they could be taken out of the government, away from the government, if they are classified. i personally think that for them to have taken things to the current point, they probably have pretty good evidence. the facts are starting to show that they were being jerked around. i think the driver on this from the beginning was that it was, loads of classified information sitting in mar-a-lago. people say this was on unprecedented. well, it's also unprecedented for a president who take all this classified information and put it in the country club. >> yowza!! joining us now is nicholas wu -- congressional reporter for politico, justice

bill barr we also knew was gone.ill barr in those final moments did differentiate himself from the president, was on terrible terms grasping on to his seat up until the final days of the trump administration. we have the tell-all and i'm sure he's selling a lot of books. would have been nice if they stood up when it mattered. >> but he did stand up to the extent he wouldn't go along with overturning the election. i know that's a low bar, no pun intended. this is dad jokes creeping in in my life. >> my dad joke meter is going off. >> i wrestle with this all the time now, jim. they need to take a page from bill barr. you can be a principled conservative and a principled constitutional conservative, then you stand up applying law and stand against attempts to overturn the election. this isn't hard or it shouldn't be. >> margaret, i keep coming back to this, we don't have an answer to the question why he took the documents. why he had them. we don't have that answer. >> and we don't know what the documents were. >> we kn

we may be right, when you lose bill barr you've lost the room. but he has no power, he is a tv commentator, he's an author. >> yeah, so i think a department can do to, things when they can go back to the judge and say look, you made it ton of basic legal errors. >> frank, john brennan said earlier this type of like the center of your opinion was president biden hasn't said whether executive information, these documents, privilege -- should be on lockdown every, there's a whole letter about day every, night accounted for every minutes. exactly that. so who are the people in charge of them in the white house that ever let them out the door? donald trump wouldn't know where to find them or how to read them? >> yeah we're learning of course as we've learned over the last four or five years, stephanie, the rules seem to have not applied to donald trump. so even in office, we see reporting, from multiple outlets that he would occasionally, or actually more than occasionally 15 boxes perhaps, stuff things in his hope, go stairs to the residents, kash pa

that is bill barr.ther leading the executive branch, leading the free world, leads in some ways to the erosion, the very assault on the basic foundations of our democracy. can you imagine deploying the fbi, the doj, to, you know, indict and convict your political opponents? that runs against everything that a democracy stands for. here's more evidence. the question is, what are we going to do with it? we've been asking ourselves all along, what are we going to do with the evidence? >> that's what we've been asking ourselves for five years, eddie. mike, i remember your reporting about how trump wanted jim comey and hillary clinton prosecuted. bill barr confirms that one of his last interactions, and it didn't go well with trump, was he was mad that he still hadn't prosecuted comey. we learned the other side of that, which was when trump was wrapped up in an investigation or prosecution, he didn't want evidence of that either. this is also from the "times" reporting of the new berman book. one case berman

. >> sandra: new reaction from the former president's former ag bill barr, he'll be joining us live 2:00 eastern time with reaction to that lawsuit. >> john: looking forward to that. >> sandra: vladimir putin is feeling the heat. his forces are losing ground they once controlled in ukraine. now mobilizing reserve troops and threatening to use nuclear weapons. lieutenant general keith kellogg here in moments. >> john: florida governor desantis sued by some of the migrants he sent to martha's vineyard. he said they went voluntarily. the lawsuit claims they were tricked into going. brandon judd of the national border patrol council gives his take coming up. >> they just got here, they are not here legally, they did not enter the proper way and they are in court demanding rights and claims under our laws. this is outrageous. okay everyone, our mission is to provide complete balanced nutrition for strength and energy. woo hoo! ensure, complete balanced nutrition with 27 vitamins and minerals. and ensure complete with 30 grams of protein. ♪ ♪ pain hits fast. so get relief fast. only tylenol

and when i declined -- bill barr did not take no for an answer. he referred the case to another district. fortunately, that district didn't charge john kerry either. >> so geoffrey berman is an experienced and seasoned prosecutor and he said what he experienced under bill barr and under donald trump is unprecedented. he's never seen anything like it, never heard of anything like it, never felt that kinds of top-down pressure. what have you taken away from what he's accused of bill barr doing here? >> here's why this is significant. when barr was attorney general, there were -- even before barr was attorney general, there were deep concerns about the political v politicization of the justice department. you had a president of the united states who was out there talking about ongoing criminal investigations, identifying publicly people he thought should be investigated. that was very concerning to a lot of people at the time. it was something that we closely watched. we tried to get inside the justice department as much as possible to understand wha

and chad and cathy, bill barr said a lot today on fox news. he even said this about the special master. >> i think the whole idea of a special master is a bit of a red herring at this stage since they've already gone through the documents. i think it's a waste of time. >> then he also spoke with "the new york times" tonight and had this quote calling it a crock of sugar. do you agree? >> pigs must be able to fly because i agree with bill barr on something. the special master is a tomtal red herring. they're still government records. they belong to the government, not to donald trump. they belong to the archives where they're supposed to be documented and logged for historical reasons. the presidential library if donald trump wanted to build one. they're not his personal records. they're not his souvenirs. everyone is waiting for this ruling from the judge. every day that passes, every hour that passes without an injunction from that judge they're still passing what they've got and doing their work. >> a good point time is of the essence. i don

here is former trump attorney, bill barr. take a listen to this. >> i personally think that for them to have taken things at the current point, they probably have pretty good evidence. that is speculation. the driver on this from the beginning was, you know, loads of classified information sitting in mar-a-lago. people said that this was unprecedented. well, it is also unprecedented for a president to take all of is classified information put it in a country club. how long is the government going to try and get that back? you know, they draw it up for a year. they were deceived on the voluntary actions taken. they then went and got a subpoena. they were deceived on that. that is how they feel. the facts are starting to show. they were being jerked around. how long do they wait? >> that is the question there are, danny. he also said the call was unnecessary. he called it around here herring. how do you assess all of that? first of all the -- the totally frank bill barr, this version of him. the thing here that we have to consi

case. >> yeah, i disassociated last week when i greed with karl rove and i have to tell you, today, bill barrwas exactly right. you know, one of the pianos that barr made in that interview is that to do that, to stand over 50 boxes that contained documents and you don't even know what what's in there, to wave the wand and declassify it, and to assume you did it, and have the legal authority to do it, why would you do it. that is so reckless. you're releasing all of these secrets, you don't know what they are, the impact on our national security, you don't tell any agencies, i mean, that is in itself a very damming thing to suggest that you did. and, you know, i think that ultimately, anything that he did in that way is meaningless because it doesn't actually change the nature of the under lying information and the damage that it can do, which is what the classification labels actually reflect, and which, by the way, is how they are being treated by the current administration. >> you know, joyce, i wanted to get back to you for a second about what a nightmare donald trump is as a client. you g

what do you think of bill barr coming off so strongly against trump's attorneys here? >> i think bill barr is clearly among those who were former trump loyalists but are now in that temp of people saying trump is wrong and it's time to move on. i think bill barr and writing that made a clear statement that he believes trump and his current loyalists are the wrong side of this issue, when it comes to the fbi search of mar-a-lago. i think bill barr lately, we see him tried to be clear with where he stands and clear about i am not in agreement with the trump camp on this. >> we have heard a lot about these records that were seized on august 8th from mar-a-lago. we have heard about the top secret documents the secret documents classified documents, not classified documents. there were also empty folders that were found. what do you make of these empty folders found at mar-a-lago? any sense of whether trump is still hoarding documents, even now? >> that's, of course, i have no sense -- i wonder if even president trump and his aide know where these documents are, our noses d

here's bill barr. >> it's hard for me not to conclude it's a political hit job.his is a woman who campaigned for office promising she was going to go after trump, which i think is a tremendous abuse of office to go head hunting and targeting individuals. so i think she was targeting trump. what ultimately persuades me that this is a political hit job is she grocery overreaches when she tries to drag the children into this. >> the children are in their 40s. they have been executives in the company for a long, long time. they have children. they're not children. so that's not fair. but what do you say to him with these allegations, political hit job? >> well, you know, it strikes me as hypocritical for bill barr to be accusing another prosecutor of improperly politically interfering in justice when it was bill barr as attorney general under donald trump who did the president's political bidding and helped undermine the rule of law. and as i point out in my book, there are several instances where bill barr interfered with the southern district of new york in ways to

>> while, i'm glad that glenn also mentioned bill barr in the same breath as donald trump, because billtrump politicize, that bill barr allowed to be weaponized. you saw that with the robert mueller investigation, and now berman has give me another example deep inside. but there's something to your point, here ayman. everything that donald trump does, i think this would frustrate a prosecutor in trying to bring a case against him. he does almost openly. he spent years calling on the justice department to prosecute his political enemies. you know, you know, his first attorney general, he said why are you not going after hillary clinton? it's been protected again and again and again that the justice department going after barack obama and joe biden when he was president. he kind there is a deep state that needed to be prosecuted. now we are learning that what he said in public, which should have been enough to turn off most of the public to him, actually was being intimated by bill barr. and these are the details, maybe the individual notes, but we know the song. donald trump himself miss

we may be right, when you lose bill barr you've lost the room. but he has no power, he is a tv commentator, he's an author. >> yeah, so i think a department can do to, things when they can go back to the judge and say look, you made it ton of basic legal errors. like the center of your opinion was president biden hasn't said whether executive privilege -- there's a whole letter about exactly that. but they can explain that, and say we need you to clarify, are you really stopping this investigation, and give it a chance to possibly change things. because if she doesn't, then they can take an appeal to the court of appeals. the other possibility is her opinion went so far into creating this kind of presidential records act, and she acknowledged in front now 16, that she may have actually lost jurisdiction over the case, because of presidential records act requires only d.c. judges, washington d.c. judges to rule over this. the justice department also has a possibility of trying to say, look judge, because your opinion went so far bonkers out of the