it puts people -- earmark son bleier, his chin to bring down costs and price which has happened in the car -- medicare party. it is cheaper than the government thought and that is because market forces have driven down the cost in a way that no bureaucracy could have. tavis: people have a right to disagree but if i were asked to put my list of the top five political mind, who would fare best in debate? you would be in my top five because you note your material, york it what you do. i raised that because you debated romney as much as anybody. they're going to be three debates between mr. rahm and mr. obama in october. since you mentioned obamacare. he says, my plan is your plan. the obamacare plan was modeled after your plan. you want to denigrate the plan we modeled upon which is yours. >> he will say almost in machine-gun fashion and i have to tell you i have debated mitt romney 17 times and people think i did as well as or better. the debates was life and death and life and death for gingrich, he did very well. he was a very well-prepared, he was leaning forward and combatting. the r