there's one piece of good news, i think, for the white house in this is that bob mueller is known as someone who does not leak. and this is not a congressional investigation where, you know, everything leaks. so whatever goes on in this discretion and whenever conclusions are being reached by mueller and his investigators, i don't think we'll be able to find that out until it's all over. and that could be well down the road. now, it is also true that these congressional investigations will also continue and they will leak like sieves to be sheer -- sure. but the investigation department as run by mueller, i am sure, despite the best efforts of me and everyone else, we're not going to find out much. >> he's a solid professional. everybody stand by. what do you think congressman? react to the news that the former fbi director, robert mueller will now be the special counsel in charge of this entire investigation of russian med alg in h matters. >> it's very, very good news but frankly, it's not the end of the news. there's a whole other piece of the puzzle that has to be brought in. the

there's an article, forged under fire, bob mueller and comey's strange relationship. when he re-placed comey, mueller said of comey he was a good friend and a good choice and a superior there arer. you have jim comey saying the president said something. the president says he's lying. is the relationship between mueller and comey at issue here? >> that's a good question. i wouldn't discount the strength of their bond and the impact on the investigation this would have. they worked side by side for years after 9/11, really through the fire together. they were involved in the famous scenes over the bush eavesdropping thing again and again. tremendous mutual respect and friendship. so when you have jim comey fired after writing the memo that he did, i would have to think that bob mueller is going to put a lot of weight in. >> let me ask you about the significance of that. bob mueller, nobody is besmirching his intelligence. but this could be deeply significant. g >> i want to join the coarse and say this is very good news for the yoi. -- country. it will begin to restore t

you also have investigations going on in congress, the fbi, bob mueller investigation may conflict with congressional investigation. bob may decide to wait and let the investigation proceed to a certain measure. we don't know if this investigation is it going to get close to the oval office, might be there be an assertion of executive privilege? that might have to be litigated. again, many unanswered questions here. >> which one would trump the other? no pun intended, the fbi investigation, wouldn't that trump all of them? >> not necessarily. if it connects with the senate investigation, there's a very important witness, and a grant of immunity may jeopardize the ability of the prosecution to prosecute that witness. so again, there needs to be some level of coordination between these ongoing investigations, otherwise we may see a situation where justice is not done simply by virtue of the fact that congress may want to get more information public about what really happened here but in doing so it may in fact hurt the investigation. so these are all things that have to be coordinated and

you also have investigations going on in congress, the fbi, bob mueller investigation may conflict withssional investigation. bob may decide to wait and let the investigation proceed to a certain measure. we don't know if this investigation is it going to get close to the oval office, might be there be an assertion of executive privilege? that might have to be litigated. >> which one would trump the other, no pun intended, the fbi investigation, wouldn't that trump all of them? >> not necessarily. if there is a very important witness, and a grant of immunity may jeopardize the abili of the prosecution to prosecute that witness. so again, there needs to be some level of coordination between these ongoing investigations, otherwise we may see a situation where justice is not done simply by virtue of the fact that congress may want to get more information public about what really happened here but in doing so it may in fact hurt the investigation. so these are all things that have to be coordinated and will be coordinated so that the american people can be assured that at the end of the day

are you glad to see bob mueller named to this position? >> i think it's a fine decision by the deputy attorney general, and i'm sure that mr. mueller will do an excellent job, chris. >> are you troubled by the reporting of what comey apparently wrote in a memo about the president of the united states asking him to essentially stop pursuing an investigation of his fired national security adviser? >> that's why i think we need to have director comey come to capitol hill as soon as possible with open testimony, and i'm certainly willing to listen to that testimony. and obviously the american people deserve the testimony of director comey. >> if that were true, would that be obstruction of justice to your mind? >> that's an open question. i, of course, would be a grand juror if there were such an action on the floor of the house, and so i don't want to prejudice myself at this time. but i certainly recognize that this is a serious matter. and, chris, i take my responsibilities seriously. i was the first member of the house to suggest that jeff

bob mueller was fbi director and jim comey was deputy attorney general, technically bob mueller's boss at that point. they worked very closely together for a number of years, on a daily basis, working to combat terrorism. particularly -- we might talk about this more later in the hour if a caller brings it up -- during the 2004 incident known as the hospital visit, when jim comey and bob mueller led a very high-stakes showdown with the bush white house and vice president cheney's office over guest: president cheney's office over the reauthorization of an nsa terrorist surveillance wind,m code-named stellar and jim comey in the justice department had concluded that the program was actually unconstitutional and illegal. it should be continued and -- and needed changes to be made in order for it to be continued. and vice president cheney's office argued vociferously that it not be changed and reauthorized and this concluded in march 2004 with this dramatic incident at the hospital bedside at george washington university hospital here in washington with john ashcroft, who was hospitalized

bob mueller served for two terms. >> i want to thank robert mueller, not just for the introduction butse bob has led the bureau during incredibly challenging times. >> mueller has most recently been a visiting professor at stanford. he'll leave those positions to take on this new and important responsibility. gary tuchman, cnn, atlanta. >> lisa monica worked with robert mueller from 2005 to 2009. is he the right person for the job? >> absolutely. there's no one better suited in this country for this role at this time. >> why do you say that? >> because if you look at the authority that the deputy attorney general required here, the person has to be from outside the department of justice and be guided by only doj policy. that's the department of justice policy and the law in exercising his authority. that is the person. bob mueller is the personification of those characteristics. >> in terms of not being partisan, he's down the middle? >> absolutely. he is guided by no party, by no political ideology. he's guided by the facts and the law and will apply those without fear or favor. >> wh

i think one of the first conversations he's going to have is with bob mueller.i suspect bob mueller is going to call james comey. they know each other well. they've worked together. he's going to call james comey and ask for a briefing on the investigation. and i think one of the things he'll do right away is make a decision as to whether he wants james comey to testify or not. remember, some of the things that james comey would testify to would be these memos that he took. these memos that he documented. apparently one of every conversation he had with the president. and if bob mueller decides early on, by looking at these memos -- and he'll clearly have access to them -- and talking to james comey, that he wants to look at potential obstruction of justice by the president or anyone else, he may not want james comey going up and testifying, and he certainly may not want those memos being turned over to congress because he's going to want to have the element of surprise when he goes to interview the president or staff. >> charlie, as i mentioned, you've had a ha

there's one part of this that we need bob mueller out there. the investigation looking backwards trying to figure out what happened last year. there that i'mt surprised there's not more on on capitol hill is that rush is when you come back and trying to this to us again. so why is there no one in government taking a leadership role in trying to ensure the russia is not going to be successful if they come back next year during the congressional midterms or three years from now with the presidential election. host: garrett graff, thank you for your time and your insight this morning. we'll take another short time out of then come back with our next guest, ken hughes of the university of virginia will talk was about the history of the oval office recordings. and the federal law surrounding them. we will be right back. ♪ >> tonight on afterwards, generalist -- journalist stuart taylor examines sexual assault and the attack on due process at america's universities. he's interviewed by the chief of the u.s. law journal. >> what is your general thesis

bob mueller served as fbi director for 12 years, for two presidents, george w. d barack obama. >> i want to thank your outstanding director. robert mueller. not just for the introduction, but because bob has led the bureau during incredibly challenging times. >> mueller has most recently been a partner in a private law firm and a visiting professor at stanford. he now will leave those positions to take on this new and important responsibility. gary tuchman, cnn, atlanta. >>> and the cnn analyst worked with mueller, who was his chief of staff in 2009. is he the right person for the job? >> absolutely, there is no one better suited in this country for this role at this time. >> why do you say that? >> because if you look at the authority that the deputy attorney general exercised here and what is required under the statute. the person has to be outside the department of justice, has a reputation for integrity and partial decision-making. and be guided by only doj policy, that is the department of justice policy and the law in exercising his authority. that is the p

but the fbi director doesn't work for bob mueller. mueller will be in charge of the investigate shub. -- investigation. but he can draw on the resources of the fbi, and -- >> does he have his own staff? >> the fbi should work for bob mueller, let's be clear. once j. edgar hoover was exposed as the thug that he was, the fbi works for the justice department. yes, he has an independent statue 10-year term. they're not supposed to do investigations generally of potential criminal conduct. except under the supervision of u.s. attorneys or justice department attorneys and the special counsel is no different from any other prosecutor in the justice department, except he's not in the line of authority, he's been appointed specially, but he uses the same kinds of resources. so i think we can expect the same from him. now remember that ten years ago, if they asked everybody about his predecessor, comey, we would have heard the same praise, he was boy scout, he was fantastic, he was the greatest at this. but he succumbed to power. and i think the

almost certainly, when receiving a request to testify in front of congress, will go to his friend bob mueller and say look, what do you want me to do? what can i do that will jeopardize your investigation the least? and mueller, starting from scratch is almost certainly going to say, hold on, don't do anything, let me get my hands around this problem and then maybe we'll see if it's okay to testify. >> gloria, what do you make of this development? >> well, i think that it gives a lot of people some breathing room on capitol hill, the democrats have been calling for a special counsel, now they have a special counsel whom they respect and who is respected on both sides of the aisle. i was talking to a senior senator democratic aid who said to me, it's amazing to watch republicans on the special counsel go from we don't need one to he's amazing. so the republicans are applauding this so a great degree because now they can go home to their constituents, they can say they are not ducking an investigation. they can say the special counsel is going to handle this and we need to get back to the peopl

bob mueller. you have that type of son, respectful of theally constitution, dedicated to the task at hand. >> martha: thank you. good to see you. let's bring in catherine herridge, who has been covering this throughout our chief intelligence correspondent come alive in washington tonight. what is the very latest? >> i just got off the phone with a former senior fbi executives. he says to me that mueller is very independent. he is directed. nt is tough as nails. that is a reference to how he handled the transition with the fbi after 9/11 come from a crime-fighting organization, the bank robbing since coming to a counter terrorism, counter intelligence organization. he said that mueller is a very different personality from james comey, the former fbi director. he said that mueller is someone that who will have total control in this investigation. if he requires additional -- airborne. the debate club. he look at what he asks for and he will not take know. in addition, this former fbi executives note

bob mueller is the legal equivalent of a sedative. don't think it will make the controversies go away. >> you heard investors saying there was a difference. there has always been this assumption that the agenda would get done one way or another. but the first talk about the existence of the presidency, this president in the white house, and that's a long shot, of course. but that was something that had never been under consideration. so, look, one day is just one day. yesterday we lost 370 points. that's not even 2%. but you're not seeing a bounce back here this morning. it will be important to see if there is anything that the treasury secretary says about tax reform. that could be, i think, a headline risk one way or the other here for investors. >> that's what republicans want to be talking about. the question is can they sustain that discussion with everything else going on. always great to see you. thank you so much. new this morning the president is complaining about the appointment of a special counsel. this is what he wrote ju

i'm confident that bob mueller will not let any efforts at interference, whether explicit or perhaps ke what president trump has said, sway his probe. >> are there crosspurposes potentially because what mueller is doing and what's happening on capitol hill? you have comey set to testify publicly in front of the senate after memorial day. does that get in the way of what mueller is doing? >> they're not cross purposes, in fact, they're complementary. let's remember one of the key criticisms of jim comey is his inquiry into then secretary clinton didn't return any indictment and he spoke publicly and in some detail about what his investigation uncovered. that is what bob mueller will seek to avoid in conducting his law enforcement investigation. he will seek any evidence that could lead to a criminal indictment. if he doesn't get there, i don't expect we'll hear much from bob mueller. that's why we need the congressional side of the house. we need congressional committees, and crucially, i think, we need an independent commission to take a look at everything that transpired during the e

former fbi director bob mueller. and why he is admired on the hill. >> i think it was a good choice when i first heard it. i think we can move forward. >>> breaking news. former fox news chief roger ailes has died. we'll look at the legacy of a man who changed news in america for years to come. >>> good morning, everyone. i'm chris jansing at our msnbc headquarters in new york. right now, president trump this

they want to defer to bob mueller. you're going to be hearing or members are going to become from rod rosenstein the range and the mandate for bob mueller. everything we heard on the senate side yesterday was that it is going to be very wide ranging. so, for republicans in the short term, i think they're glad to get this off their plate to the extent that they can. in the long term, obviously, a lot at stake here depending on how long bob mueller takes and what he comes up with. >> 90 minutes yesterday and might go longer today given sheer numbers. >> you're right. i think there are something like 442 members as the house right now as it stands. they'll probably try to get the process under control. we know there is a vote in the house of representatives at 1 11:15 here in washington. that is a time that we might start looking for reactions from them as they emerge. >>> up next, a wing and a prayer. in just a few short hours. president trump will be wheels up on his first international trip as the leader of the free wu

>> bob mueller is doing a criminal investigation. the special proscar is doing an investigation of criminal allegations that are extremely serious, including possible obstruction of justice. again, no conclusion about whether there was, but there are a number of pieces of evidence that indicate there may well have been, and investigation has to fall that evidence wherever it leads. i'm satisfied that the deputy attorney general means what he says in the mandate that he gave that anything related to those allegations can be pursued and must be pursued, and it is more than just counterintelligence. we are talking here about a criminal investigation. >> your predecessor joe lieberman was named a candidate to be the next fbi director. do you think would make a good fbi director? >> what i have said is that i'm not going to comment on any individual until someone is nominated. i believe in general, a nominee for fbi director ought to be someone with a background and expertise, experience in criminal justice, preferably a prosecutor, and o

special counsel according to the person who helped write it back in '99, the president can fire bob mueller the presint should figure out that this is not a game show and bob about mueller is the right person at the right time and should be left to do the job of leading this investigation. and going where the facts and evidence take him so that the american public can know the truth about what happened. >> senator kamala harris, thank you so much. good to see you. >>> and now back to the breaking news in new york city, at least one person is dead, 12 are injured after a car plowed into a group of pedestrians in times square. you can see the car there back up with its back up, its front down, the hood crumpled, the trunk up. clearly they are looking at it and looking to see if there are any devices there, but that is the car involved. the driver is in custody. new york governor andrew cuomo will address the media in about 20 minutes. we'll of course bring that to you live. joining me now beginkristen dah at the scene and sean calf nvan and henry on the phone. do you see anything else regardi

that's not a problem that bob mueller is going to have. >> it's not. it's not.ere's frustration from democrats and republicans i'm talking to saying that they feel that this puts a freeze on what they're doing and it may not be a full-on freeze but it will shut them down from doing a lot of what they wanted to do. first and foremost, talk to james comey in a public setting. that deal had not been struck to get him before congress and then, poof, we have this special prosecutor. and so the feeling among people in the senate in particular who wanted to hear from james comey in a public way is that it's probably not going to happen because robert mueller is going to say, you know what, let's just hold off. let me get my ducks in a row. let's not have him go out and talk publicly about the memos and everything else until the special prosecutor has a sense of where he's going to go with this, his staff in place and all of the above. >> it's interesting you bring that up. i asked senator jack reed. does this mean you're not going to be able to get comey to testify? ma

and mark from your perspective, do you think appointing bob mueller speeds things up or slows things down? i've heard both overnight, and also, what's the impact of donald trump tweeting on said investigation? >> it's going to slow it down in this sense. mueller's going to take his time and he's going to have an enormous amount of authority to do it. as you know, comey at one point said he needed more resources when he was looking into this, and we now know this special prosecutor is going to get those resources. and unfortunately, it's just going to take a long time. don't forget, the first thing he needs to do is set up the infrastructure. he has to be in a location that's been vetted out by all of the people necessary to make sure that confidential information can go there. >> boring and important stuff. >> absolutely. so, that's going to take several weeks to a month or two. then he's going to have to do his analysis, his strategy. what am i going to do, who am i going to look for first? literally, this is an investigation, a prosecution that's going to take a long, long time. and

one of the first conversations he's going to have is with bob mueller. they've worked together. he's going to call and ask jim comey for a briefing on the investigation. and one of the things he'll do is make a decision as to whether james comey would testify or not. apparently one of every conversation he had with the president, memos. and if bob mueller decides early on by looking at these memos and talking to jim comey that he wants to look at potential obstruction by the president or whoever else, he may not want james comey testifying because he's going to want the element of surprise or puts in a new grand jury. >> you've had your hand in two explainers. the first one was the definition of obstruction of justice. and does this fit? the second one why a special counsel's going to be tough in this matter. please free associate. they're helpful to all of us in the audience who read them. can you answer both questions? >> absolutely. can i do it in a way that makes it all make sense? i'll try. and you forgot a third one of how the mechanics of impeachment would work although i

>> yes, he was, a number of times. >> and he pushed that to bob mueller? >> yes. he declined to answer. now, he could also be arguing, you know, executive privilege and attorney-client privilege, and you know, a number of ways he could have played that, certainly. >> certainly. one democrat texted our phil mattingly and said that rod rosenstein was frustratingly cautious. is that how you would describe it? >> well, he's a deputy attorney general, you know. he's not going to show his hand. he was very clear about the fact that mr. mueller will have all the resources he needs to do his job and that the interest in moving forward is for him to carry on with this investigation, independent of the a.g. >> did he tell you about why and when he decided it was time to appoint a special counsel? >> he did not. >> does rosenstein consider -- did he talk about in the room, does he consider mueller's inquiry now a criminal investigation? >> well, the attorney general is charged with the responsibility of evaluating cases as to whether or not there is criminality, so that's ce

bob mueller is an investigator who is going to find out. if something went wrong, he's going to find it out. but you know, james, that there's another person here who should also be a little bit wary, and that may be james comey. why? >> look, bob mueller worked with comey, but he's going to be looking at comey with a critical eye. it's stunning that the memo by the "times" in where comey reports that the investigation is being influenced. but what's equally stunning is that he makes no mention of it to his deputy director, andrew mccabe, nor does he go to the department of justice. he was required to do something if he felt there was, in fact, an obstruction going on. >> so, in other words, if james comey did something improper, perhaps even illegal, not quite sure what that would be, but bob mueller has the authority to investigate that and might start asking the questions. larry sabato, obviously, we are in a very different place this morning than yesterday. there is now a special counsel investigating people inside, or investigating thi

but bob mueller brought democrats and republicans on to the same page. then the president this morning blows it all up. calls it a witch hunt. basically implicates all of you on the right who agreed with this move as being part of a witch hunt. basically den grades rosenstein. for him to tweet this way, what is your message to the president of the united states, as a member of his party? >> fist, chris, let me tell you one thick. you have been implying all morning that republicans are coming out of the wood word and you have been showing my picture. i was on your show two weeks ago. i'm not hiding from anyone. i have appeared on television continually on this and i have strong views on it. so i don't appreciate the implications until now i am suddenly appearing. >> i know we wanted you to be on yesterday. also true that we couldn't get anybody on when we were trying to discuss the implications on this. i don't have to sell you on the point that your leadership had been quiet on this. >> i'm talking about myself. and i followed carter page, which is no ea

ie, bob mueller. and that's pretty much a confirmation that a cover-up obstruction is within the orbit of the things that bob mueller is looking at, like was that memo written for -- did the president instruct him to write it for particular reasons. and you put it together from what we know comey has said and the memo he wrote about the request he got from the president trump to back off the investigation, to make it go away, and you put it together with the new disclosures about what he said to the russian foreign minister lavrov to the effect of he fired comey to relieve the pressure of the russia investigation. and you have the ingredients of a potential obstruction case. >> nick, to whatever extent viewers of this segment right now are outraged by the president's conduct, or political enemies of the president are outraged by his conduct, obviously people working within the trump administration are outraged by his conduct. that's why they're reading the notes of an oval office meeting over the phon

that's not the way bob mueller operates. that gives the trump white house the space to duck questions and say there's a process afoot and it will play out. the second is i think it actually might quiet james comey. james comey is a long-time friend and views bob mueller as a mentor figure. he will be loathe to start leaking out these memos and perhaps not want to testify on capitol hill anymore knowing it would undercut bob mueller's investigation. >> it could be a blessing for the president if mueller finds no illegal behavior, poor judgment or collusion, no illegality, he may not make a report about it, saying there is nothing to prosecute here and the full story may not be known. >> if. the president seems to be his own worst enemy. he can't help himself. he's the one that fired comey and invited the russians into the oval office without the american press and the one that said in an interview i fired him over the russians. the big if, if the president can control himself. we know these investigations can take months if n

now it's being done by bob mueller and i have great respect for him. my opposition to special counsel is philosophical. i go back, whether it's lawrence wals walsh, fitzgerald. we have had a number in new york. the fact that a special prosecutor in effect is accountable to no one. but you can't have a better one than bob mueller. >> comey use the the words it was a counter intelligence investigation that was actually launched last july and i'm paraphrasing what he said, if any crimes were committed, they would come up with that as well. now apparently they've moved from counter intelligence to criminal. >> wolf, i disagree. i was at the briefing last week and we were told that it's the same investigation now as it was then. >> so it's still a counter intelligence investigation but they're investigating crimes. these are words obviously. >> that's what i'm saying. to me, if there's any crime committed, the person will be prosecuted for it, absolutely. >> comey used the word crimes as well when he testified about it. let me just update you on what our co

i think the deputy attorney general put a lot of that responsibility onto bob mueller and i know chairman burr and i have already talked about making this as soon as possible. early next week we will have a chance to sit down with him. >> will jim comey be able to testify in an open hearing? >> i have no information at this point that would preclude, or in any way indicate, that director compaey would be precluding. the deputy attorney general has appointed a special prosecutor, which i called for, to make sure there was further independence. that special prosecutor will basically take over what was already happening at the fbi and at the doj. and i would be very discouraged directorw this new was going to send out a new special prosecutor. preclude jim comey testifying in public. clearly, i believe it was mr. comey's intent to testify. nothing really has changed. the scope of the investigation is still the same. understand why there would be any reason why a few days ago director comey would not testify. i hope sinner than later. oner than later. i would like to get it done as soon as po

was surprised to hear him invoke impeachment and to draw a direct line between the appointment of bob muellercision from rod rosenstein to do so, and impeachment and to describe mueller and rosenstein as the opposite of political hacks. who are the political hacks? >> well, yeah, those two gentlemen particularly rosenstein is well regarded in maryland. a lot of us know him and have great deal of respect for his work. so having him be in the political crucible the way he's been for the last few weeks was problematic for him and he seems to have moved himself out of that. no one would claim he's a political hack by any stretch. i thought doug going -- the attorney general going to the "i" word, impeachment, was a little much, off the back pages of the democrat talking points which i understand. let's follow -- i think the t e takeaway, these two gentlemen are about following the facts and following the information as they get it. will it lead to something as big as that? we don't know. it's a very high bar, as you know. there's a republican congress you're going to have to impress the hell out

what is the difference of bob mueller taking over here? this is not just an investigation into possible collusion in between the trump campaign and russia. it's much bigger than that. i see this as a rob silverman report on wmd. if it's about the overall rush in an attempt to influence, it may be had nothing to do with the trump campaign. when you look at some of the things russia was doing to hack into twitter and a social media and create fake news stories -- i actually think this could be very, very useful overall for not just america but for the civilized world to push back against russia in some sort of robert silverman type report that would be accepted in their conclusion. >> i think as you lay that out without a special counsel, president trump could be dealing with this not for weeks or months, but maybe years. you could get a fast investigation to look at everything, john mccain last night as a senior republican said this is becoming something like watergate, drip, drip. the american people are not going to have r investigation i

i hope that the leadership on the hill takes the time to meet with bob mueller. i'm sure that ultimately he will cooperate and provide those memos to the investigation. >> yesterday at this time i was speaking here in "the situation room" with the house oversight committee jason chaffetz who has spoken directly with the former fbi director james comey. comey told him that he wants to speak with bob mueller, the special counsel before testifying. here's the question, do you have confidence that the american public will hear directly from comey? >> i do. i think that ultimately that this kind of testimony plus the memos will be provided to those investigating on the hill, but i also believe that bob mueller as special counsel needs to review those memos, needs to talk with comey to determine exactly what is involved and how it relates to any possible prosecution in the future. >> when the special counsel bob mueller was announced, there were worries that it would slow down the investigations being led in the congress, the house and the senate, block public access t

>> rod rosenstein, the deputy, saying he has chosen bob mueller, the former fbi director to take the reins of the special probe. so essentially the department of justice is now out of the equation, and bob mueller will run the investigation, and have the same jurisdiction as the grand jury. he can interview the president, anything he deems necessary in this investigation. and what is so interesting here, don, rod rosenstein and his team did not give much advance warning to the white house or the attorney general, jeff sessions who as you know recused himself from the russia probe. in fact the white house found out just an hour before rod rosenstein wanted to do this by the book, clearly. >> so he says my decision is not a finding that crimes have been committed or any prosecution is warranted. i have made no such determination, what i determined is based on the unique services. this requires me to place this under the authority of the person who exercises the degree of independence from the normal chain of command. so when the deputy attorney general started thinking about putting in

in fact, bob mueller was there the day after meeting with rosenstein. what's interesting, as of late friday, he was still telling people close to him that he didn't think it was necessary to bring in outside special counsel unless the fbi investigation was impaired. there's been developments since then of the revelation yesterday that the president allegedly asked james comey to stop the flynn probe and the memos where he documented that conversation. it's unclear how much that factored in but it certainly raises the question if that was the tipping point, don. >> pamela, stand by. i want to bring in dana bash, david gergen, nia-malika henderson. thank you for joining us. dana, what do you know about rosenstein's thinking about this? >> he was upset. extremely upset. upset starting with a week ago i guess tuesday the bombshell of firing james comey and then putting all of the blame, so to speak, on rod rosenstein, saying that it was his memo that listed all of the reasons why comey should be fired and then, of course, the president the next day or two d

>> there will be some overlap but what bob mueller will try to do is preserve first and foremost the criminal equity. what he will be looking for is criminal wrong doing and as the various congressional committees conduct their investigations mueller will want to meet with the chairman and make sure they don't do anything that could possibly jeopardize his investigation. and i think one of the early signs of what he's investigating, so he has a very broad mitt. he can look at under this mandate he's been given the underline potential crimes of collusion, election, other crimes out of ties with russia and also coverup crimes. for example, obstruction of justice, lying to the fbi, destroying documents. and those are the types of crimes obstruction of justice, particularly that are potentially raised by jim comey's memos that document the conversations he had with the president, so one early thing to watch, if, you know, congressional committees have asked for those memos if bob mueller decides he doesn't want to turn the memos over to congress, it will be his decision, i think it's a si

that is not bob mueller's mission. mission is to determine whether or not crimes have been committed. wordie: collision is the -- collusion is the word bandied around. >> it is to investigate crimes -- charlie: perjury. >> obstruction, perjury, any other crime that might arise out of that was the mandate in his memo. charlie: help me understand why these investigations will not collide with each other. they need the same witnesses for the most part. >> we will have to see. i know when i was at the department of justice, we would weigh in with the relevant committee if they were doing an investigation. hold on, don't interview this witness. don't ask for this document because that might undermine our ability to do the investigation and hold someone responsible. we tried to navigate it if it was an important issue where there were clear public policy reasons why congress was holding oversight orar intelligence reasons, so they could proceed but in a way that would not prevent us from seeing if there was a charge to be br

you've got everybody behind bob mueller. he's referred to the witch hunt consistently. in march, mike flynn should ask for immunity in that this is a witch hunt. a couple of weeks ago he says there's no collusion, when does it end? do you think, senator, that he should be using these words and keep saying that it's a witch hunt again and again? >> you know, i think he believes it's a witch hunt and if you look at the facts, there's nothing so far that's been alleged that there's any criminal activity or any collusion between the trump campaign and the russians and that's what he's basing this on and the investigation that jim comey was under was not a russia investigation. >> that's what rosenstein said. >> that's a big problem. look. i think every republican is doing what every republican does which is run for the hills when things get tough. they don't want to look like they're attached to a president who is making a lot of missteps and causing a lot of problems for them. they see this as a welcome reprieve that they can now move on and we don't have to argue this que

you have bob mueller former head of the fbi named special counsel.that mean and what are the democrats going to want from him and from rosenstein today? big questions. we have just the man to answer. senator joe manchin of west virginia. he is a member of the senate intel committee which is conducting the probe into the russian role of the 2016 election. senator, thank you for joining us. >> thank you for having me, chris. >> special counsel. good move? robert mueller is the right choice? >> it sounds like the right move and choice to put confidence back. someone was saying winston churchill was saying america will do everything right after they try all else. special prosecutor will do his job. we will see where it goes. we will make sure we uncover and have transparency. let the intel take you to the facts and facts will take you to the truth. >> it is good to have republicans and democrats agreeing on anything let alone something sensitive as this. if there is not consensus about the move, there is consensus of the man. the move is suggestive of re

durbin is at the microphones. >> gained a lot of support from his decision last night to appoint bob muellerthe special counsel when it comes to this investigation of the russian interference in our election. and any involvement by the trump campaign. mueller is widely respected, he is smart, principled, most of us who have known him and worked with him for years believe he will put country first. that's critical for credibility. mr. rosenstein today answered a lot of questions but declined to answer a lot as well. and many of those came down to his concern about whether he might interfere with the investigation by mueller. so we left with a lot of information but not all the information. >> based on what you heard today, sir, do you believe the deputy attorney general knew before we wrote that memo, that james comey was going to be fired? >> yes. >> what was it you said that led you to believe that? >> is the day before. >> do you think he was pressured into writing that memo? >> no. >> was it senator graham who said based on the briefing that he believes this has crossed from counter intel

is bob mueller going to look at a cover up? we won't know that for a while. get a clue in that testimony. if jim comey comes in and there are some things he's willing to talk about but other things he says, i've talked to the special prosecutor and he's asked me not to go into this, that would be a very clear sign that that's something that bob mueller wants to pursue. he wants to have a chance to talk to witnesses without them knowing what jim comey has already told him. >> that would be the question i would have that was surprising because there was some question about whether we were going to hear anybody, ari, in an open session given that you have an investigation and you could hear robert mueller saying, i need to keep all of this quiet. >> yeah. we had heard in our reporting according to associates of comey, that he didn't want to do the original closed session idea. that while that has certain benefits, he wanted to have one public transparent accounting. this is now happening. this is another piece of brak g breaking news here, late in the day, jim c

james comey was bob mueller's boss, technically, in the organizational chart when he was the deputy attorney general at a certain period during mueller's service as fbi director. tell us how you think that will inform mueller's investigation? he is going to come to a point where he is investigating a conversation between the fbi director comey and the president, and he is going to have to decide about the credibility of a conversation that is just two people alone in a room, which might have been taped or might not have been taped. and bob mueller is going to have to pick a side. >> well, first of all, you got that right. if there are tapes, i think that will pretty well determine his look at the evidence there. so that will be the first thing to see if there are tapes. the second is james comey has a good memory. he wrote down a lot of things. and i'm sure that that's going to be one of the first things that mueller is going to look at, as well as talking to james comey and others about what happened with these conversations. and please remember that this will go beyond that. it's going to

special loyalty by firing jim comey. >> can you talk, rory, to me about the relationship between bob mueller and jim comey? we know that comey was deputy attorney general when mueller was the top brass at the fbi. they were both involved in the ashcroft hospital room scenario and knowing that at least mr. mueller, what do you think the likelihood is of mr. comey testifying? >> well, in the special counsel investigation, as to whether he'll testify in congress, my guess is he will testify in congress if he is still invited but i don't think you'll see jim comey take the fifth amendment or anything like that. all of these things go back to david margolis in a sense was the friend that links all of these people. they are all special, long-time career public servants who have always put the interest of the american people and justice system ahead of a political party. in that sense, i think comey will do what he thinks is right and i think mueller will do what he thinks is right. i don't think you're going to see any -- >> here is senator marco rubio. >> all of those are in the hands of director