. >>> brad raffensperger, and rudy giuliani have now both been interviewed by prosecutors in the special counsel's office. one presumably talking about the receiving end of donald trump's alleged attempts to overturn the election results, the other the one who was allegedly help donald trump do the overturning. what could the georgia secretary of state tell jack smith's team, and what could the president'sf? we imagine their versions of events are quite different. so what might be the overlap. joyce vance is here to line it up for us. she'll also help us sort through news on the documents indictment, questions on why bedminster was not searched by the fbi. and how donald trump's latest defense that what you heard in that audio tape was all bravado might hold up in court. joining me now, nbc news justice reporter, ryan reilly, and nbc news correspondent vaughn hillyard with me in new york. tell us about brad raffensperger's interview. >> i was going through some of the individuals who have appeared before this grand jury at this point, and given what we know publicly, and the tape, the au

and brad raffensperger, the individual who the target of the investigation, donald trump, is on not cameraaudio talking to. you're clearly nearing the end of the investigation. to be clear, it's a harder case to prove than the documents matter. even in light of that video -- i keep saying video. even in light of that audio. what you have is somebody talking about -- a candidate for office who might have been zealously advocating for himself and has a plausible defense versus there were documents in your house that you acknowledge that you had that you obstructed the investigation into. the documents case is just far more straightforward than some of the more thorny political stuff in georgia. >> well, guys, we've got some more developments to look for in these cases. elliot williams, geoff duncan. thanks so much to both of you. brianna. >>> up next, police just released body cam video from that mass shooting last month at a texas outlet mall. we'll have that ahead. this is your summer to smile. to raise your glass and reconnect. to reel in the fun and serve up great times. toelp you get re

what does jack smith, what more does jack smith want to know from brad raffensperger today in this interview? >> well, my sense is, when you are seeing folks like raffensperger and other public officials, and folks closer to the inner circle of donald trump, being interviewed, that tells me it's getting closer and closer to a conclusion in terms of the investigation. they are wanting to confirm things they've otherwise already, you know, they've already had testimony, or evidence in the grand jury, and they're trying to confirm things that they've already seen with folks who had the firsthand knowledge which is why they are probably talking to raffensperger. >> jen, your thoughts? >> yeah, i agree. one of the things you want to do with something like this is set to the table, right? you want to hear from raffensperger, not just about what actually happened on that call, which, of course, you have recorded. let's talk about the integrity of the investigation, of the election in georgia, you know? tell us how confident you are about the vote count, and why there were no troubles in georgia, an

at this point in the game, brad raffensperger is one of the people who was most victimized by donaldrump. let's remember that call in january of 2021 when donald trump called him. here's what was said and what was recorded. >> so, look, all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. >> so that's what brad raffensperger would be recalling. we know he wrote about it in his book he felt threatened at the time. that's very likely what the special counsel's office is asking him about today when they interview him. and then rudy giuliani, for him to go in, he was the president's personal lawyer at the time, and also quite a public figure in the campaign, putting -- pressure in court, bringing things into courts where they were saying that there was fraud in the election when there wasn't. also, orchestral in bringing together all of these people that wanted to go into battleground states and say that trump won when they didn't. and so for giuliani to go in, that could be quite a significant end point for the special cou

case that seem most on their face wrong potentially criminal against the law, like the call to brad raffensperger that's actually a pretty hard thing to prove in court. setting aside trump's intent, the washington post points out that trump did not spell out explicitly that he wanted raffensperger to break the law or find the votes. a lot of people say, what do you mean? he said find me 11,780 votes. but barb, really, the bar incident credibly high in terms of what is actually criminally wrong and that conversation. is it not? >> it is. the gut reaction is that he's doing something wrong, and he may very well be. but to prove a case in court requires proof of every element of defense beyond a reasonable doubt. and our system is designed so that we can prefer to see ten people go free rather than what instant person be convicted. the rules are designed to ensure -- or defendant. so you have to show that he, for example, did not mean, i just wanted the 11,780 votes to wish that believe i was entitled in a fair and free election. i thought i had been defrauded, and i was just asking brad raffensperg

brad raffensperger, meeting with special counsel's team today, what have you learned?learned, i have some new details. the secretary met with federal prosecutors for about two hours earlier today. it was peppered with some of the questions posed by other federal investigations, including the january 6th committee, mainly about trump's infamous phone calls, infamous demand that he find exactly enough votes to overturn his defeat. there's always some other pressure that trump allies placed upon him to reverse the defeat. he's used to this by now. there's even a joke around the state capital that raffensperger can't even -- remember how many lawyers this talk to the last two years because of dysentery's phone call, and this being at the center of such scrutiny. but he definitely met for about two hours with prosecutors. >> greg, do you think raffensperger personally doesn't want to talk to -- could brian kemp be next? >> the governor was obviously subpoenaed and talk to in the fulton county investigation. what i really think could be next, as we've talked about this fake

the fact that it has taken him so long to talk to brad raffensperger is also interesting. of course everyone watching the show knows, fani willis, the district attorney in georgia georgia, is working on a fast-moving case looking specifically at the georgia piece of this probe. we also know doj doesn't like necessarily getting involved in a redundant ways with state and local government proceedings. so the fact that there has been this action in nevada is interesting. i think it's a state people should be keeping an eye on as they're tracking brasilia the threads with jack smith and his team are pulling. now >> a great point. i had not put that together to you just said it. betsy woodruff swan, that's why we have you on. still ahead, the indicted former president caught on tape. >> as president i could be classified it. now i can't do you know. >> the damning new recording of donald trump's incriminating interview and what it means for his criminal trial, next. (woman) oh. oh! hi there. you're jonathan, right? the 995 plan! yes, from colonial penn. your 995 plan fits my bu

brad raffensperger is an important witness, but there's no allegation of wrongdoing on his behalf.did yesterday was give an interview to the special counsel's office. it wasn't grand jury testimony. rudy giuliani, on the other hand, is as close to being a target of this investigation as almost anyone other than mark meadows and donald trump himself. there is no one who is more central to the perpetration of the big lie than former mayor giuliani who went on a road show of sorts to various state legislatures at hearings airing his concerns and allegations of fraud in various states and then participating in the litigation. but he was the public face of the litigation effort, and he was connected to both folks at the campaign who were arranging and navigating that fake electors office as well as the other lawyers who were sort of the legal and/or constitutional master minds. that might be giving them too much credit for the fake electors theory but also the theory that vice president pence had the power to overturn the election on his own by rejecting certain electors. i think the sp

investigators interviewing georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. former president donald trump's nemesis called him in january 2021. pressing him to find votes that trump needed to win the state of georgia. a state joe biden won by nearly 12,000 votes. >> all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes. which is one way that we have. because we won the state. >> so, where is the special counsel's january six investigation headed? we will discuss that, and he's already indicted, president trump, in the mar-a-lago case while trump and his allies keep changing their explanations about that audio recording that cnn exclusively obtained. where trump is on their discussing what -- and seems to wave around classified documents. so this is what he said about it before cnn got the exclusive tape. >> there was no document. that was a massive amount of papers and everything else, talking about iran and other things. and it may have been held up or may not, but that was not a documents. i didn't have a document per se. there was nothing to declassif

brad raffensperger who is the person that you hear donald trump talking to, trying to convince him toind 11,000 plus votes, what do we expect his impact is going to be on this case because he's coming to testify as well? >> well, again, i think the way that jack smith is looking at this is that it's a holistic approach because what happened in georgia is not isolated from what was happening on january 6th. it's all part of the same conspiracy. so if the secretary of state thought that when trump called him he was trying to put the -- he was trying to put the arm on him, he was trying to -- trying to coerce him into finding votes, it all runs into january 6 and an effort to overturn the election. it's one big conspiracy. >> okay. so now you have this other issue, right, we just talked about those 37 counts with the classified documents. there is audio that cnn obtained exclusively, it's been played all over the world, you hear donald trump in his own words saying these are secret documents and i could have declassified them then, but i can't now, and he's ruffling papers. he has come o

it comes just as georgia's secretary of state brad raffensperger just finished meeting with the special counsel team. but we're going to begin the hour with extreme weather affecting this nation in several ways from multiple directions. thick clouds of wildfire haze, they are once again descending from canada now enveloping the midwest. people in chicago masking up, in fact, to combat health risks from the smoke, and severe storms have stranded thousands of travelers in airports from georgia to new york. dozens sleeping on terminal floors with more than 9,000 flights canceled or delayed in just the last 48 hours. a barrage of lightning, flash floods and high powered winds bringing down trees crashing across this country, demolishing homes, blocking roads and crushing vehicles. in detroit, we're going to show you a car that was entirely flattened right there by an overnight storm, and then spreading north right now, a record heat wave that already has 40 million folks on alert in the south, and so there you have it, we're going to get you a weather picture in just a bit. we're going to g

won that with 68% of the vote and brian kemp won it with i think 80% of the vote or 78% and brad raffenspergerthose who voted for kemp, raffensperger and greene for disparate reasons. the thing i'm concerned about, it is 2023. it's been years now, let's be fair, so -- >> yes. >> the fact that this is still something people think they can build an election on, we've proven over and over again, trump told us we'd be tired of winning, in 2018 we lost. in 2020, we lost. there are basically we've lost senate elections in georgia three times based on this election denial as a touchstone. we've got to get past it and in the past normally rational political players move on. president trump has every right to run. he needs to stop talking about this election thing and start talking about the issues because the reality is we have two -- we have biden and trump who are right now the front-runners. i think biden will obvious get it. the two great parties nominating the only two who could possibly lose to each other. there's something wrong with our system if that's where we're at. >> all right, gabe, than

brad raffensperger, meeting with special counsel's team today, what have you learned?learned, i have some new details. the secretary met with federal prosecutors for about two hours earlier today. it was peppered with some of the questions posed by other federal investigations, including the january 6th committee, mainly about trump's infamous phone calls, infamous demand that he find exactly enough votes to overturn his defeat. there's always some other pressure that trump allies placed upon him to reverse the defeat. he's used this by now. there's even a joke around the state capital that raffensperger can't even -- [inaudible] -- what does that tell you? >> it is the kind of court to see that you can extend to a witness that you can believe will be truthful and cooperative. sometimes, we have a witness with so much circumstantial guarantee of truthfulness, that there is not the need to ask them to disrupt the schedule and to testify under oath. this is in some ways i just think it undermines the fact that raffensperger is a fact witness. he's not someone who is here

this is the first timejack brad raffensperger. team talking with another election official in the georgian electric —— cibgress these offers. it the georgian electric -- cibgress these offers. it is wrapping _ cibgress these offers. it is wrapping up _ cibgress these offers. it is wrapping up the _ cibgress these offers. it is wrapping up the focus - cibgress these offers. it is wrapping up the focus on the efforts to overturn the results. that is separate from some of the other cases, it is a pileup of potential real legaljeopardy a pileup of potential real legal jeopardy for the former president. how does it actually affect him though. we president. how does it actually affect him though.— president. how does it actually affect him though. we will see. this moves _ affect him though. we will see. this moves onto _ affect him though. we will see. this moves onto macro - affect him though. we will see. this moves onto macro tracks, | this moves onto macro tracks, there is the legal track and another track, there is the legal track

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. >> and then there was georgia where the republican secretary of state, brad raffensperger, got an hour-longl from president trump. >> brad, what are we going to do? we won the election and it's not fair to take it away from us like this. >> trump probably put more pressure on brad raffensperger than anyone else. it was immense. >> all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes. >> and i think it's the phone call that everyone remembers that was later leaked where he in turn berated brad raffensperger. >> they're going around playing you and laughing at you behind your back, brad. >> he praised him. he seemed to try to charm him at times and even indicated that if he did not act that there could be criminal liability for those actions. >> you're not reporting it. that's just -- you know, that's a criminal -- that's a criminal offense. >> and it was not just pressure. there were threats, usually from trump supporters who felt empowered or incited by him. take for instance the two men in this hummer with a qanon decal. prosecutors say they drove the vehicle filled with automatic we

also on wednesday they spoke with georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger.e is a key witness in an alleged campaign to try to pressure the state of georgia to overturn their election results. he had a now infamous 2021 call with then president trump who was urging him to find additional votes to try to overturn the state's election results. raffensperger is certainly not expected to be a target but absolute lay key witness as the state pressure campaign is just one of many aspects around january 6 that jack smith is investigating. so it appears that he is getting closer to possible charging decisions potentially even by the end of the summer. paula reid, cnn, washington. >>> long time legal battle between donald trump and e. jean carroll is not over. just weeks after the jury found him guilty of sexually abusing and defaming her, he is now counter suing claiming carroll defamed him when she appeared on cnn following the verdict and said this. >> the jury found that trump did not rape you. what about that moment? >> robby can explain the legal. >> and i want

through the arraignment but his relationship to donald trump. >> quickly, your thoughts on brad raffensperger talking to the special counsel. >> unbelievable to think about. this is all part of a larger conversation. we're waiting for fanny willis. we knew raffensperger was someone completely averse to doing that which he was instructed and strong-armed to try to do. having his testimony under oath of some kind will be very important in the long run to what would come until in any trial against the former president. >> thank you. >>> in the midst of all this, former president trump is stumping in new hampshire today and it is not just the leak tape that has him trying to put out fires. house speaker kevin mccarthy, one of trump's allies, raising doubt about 2024 prospects. >> can he win the election? yes. is he the strongest to win? i don't know. >> mccarthy has towed the trump line loyally since just a couple weeks after january 6th. the visit to mar-a-lago. i wonder how the trump team is reacting to mccarthy's words this time? >> reporter: the allies have been outraged. they are angry. you

also on wednesday they spoke with georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. key witness in an alleged campaign to try to pressure the state of georgia to overturn their election results. he had a now infamous 2021 call with then president trump who was urging him to find additional votes to try to overturn the state's election results. raffensperger is certainly not expected to be a target but absolutely a key witness as the state pressure campaign is just one of many aspects around january 6 that jack smith is investigating. so it appears that he is getting closer to possible charging decisions potentially even by the end of the summer. paula reid, cnn, washington. >>> let's bring in joey jackson, cnn legal analyst an criminal defense attorney. good morning, friend. all right. does the recent activity in the doj 2020 election probe to you suggest a more complex investigation there than the other cases involving trump? >> yeah, good morning, christine. it certainly does. i don't know if more, but it certainly means that they are on point and really looking in

former trump lawyer rudy giuliani and georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger.lusively learned federal investigators interviewed julian ngiuliani in weeks and raffensperger is expected to face questions. this has to do with the parallel special counsel investigation by the justice department into trump's, forts to change the outcome of his 2020 election loss. you'll recall raffensperger was the state official that donald trump asked in that phone call to find the votes he said he needed in georgia. let's get to the person who has covered this soup to nuts from beginning to end, sara murray joining me now. let's start with rudy giuliani. what more are we learning about this? >> well, kate, my colleague paula reid and i found out that rudy giuliani did sit down with federal investigators in recent weeks and his political adviser said that it was a voluntary interview and it was conducted in a professional matter. we don't know what the focus is, but we know that giuliani got a subpoena from federal investigators looking for information about payments he got around

we also are learning that later today jack smith will be speaking with brad raffensperger.course he was on the receiving end of that infamous phone call from donald trump on january 2nd last year. find 11,780 votes. my question for doj is what took so long? >> wouldn't you keep a big witness to the end? >> no, you want to get to people as soon as possible. maybe for trial if you are trying to be strategic. he testified publicly a year ago in the january 6th committee. he spoke to fani willis. doj is getting to him now. doj has gotten into the highest echelons of power. they have spoken with mike pence, mark meadows, pat cipollone, others. it looks like they are rounding out their investigation and moving towards the moment of thumbs up/thumbs down charging. >> what about mar-a-lago and the developments on those documents? >> of course, the big news is the audiotape that cnn has exclusively obtained where donald trump is talking about documents at bedminster. he says two sentences the whole case. this is secret information. look at this. hard to square his new defenses. this

today, the special counsel's team also speaking with georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger.gets of course his trump's pressure campaigns after the election. that phone call we've all heard. >> right. brad raffensperger is the secretary of state who donald trump called and was recorded saying i want you to find those votes in georgia for me to win the state, which was impossible. that was not something that could be done. he didn't win the state and then afterwards, raffensperger wrote about this in his book. he said i felt then and still believe today that this was a threat. coming from donald trump. the very sort of thing he might want to be telling the special counsel's office sitting down with him and all of this comes at the same time where we know there's quite a focus on what feels happening in individual states. the battleground states trump wanted to declare he won even when he hadn't. there's been a lot of investigation not just around the fake electors, but other parts of what was happening in those states. so how this all comes together, there could be development

jack smith's team today interviewed georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger. the person to whom donald trump placed the phone call heard around the world. >> all i want to do is this. i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have. >> donald trump made that phone call on january 2nd, 2020, one it became public the next day. the next day, on january 3rd, 2021. every member of jack smith's prosecutorial team has known about that phone call since january 3rd, 2021. but we came public. they have all known about that phone call, just like the rest of us have known about that phone call, for over a year and a half before jack smith was even appointed as special prosecutor. here we are tonight. two and a half years after first hearing about that phone call, in is only today, that jack smith's prosecutors or interviewing georgia secretary of state, brad raffensperger. about that possibly criminal phone call that he received, two and half years ago. jack smith's investigation of donald trump's activities leading up to and on january 6th, seems to be f

the georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger interviewed today by the special counsel's team, this after former president trump's lawyer rudy giuliani also was questioned. cnn's senior legal affairs correspondent paula reed is here with me in the situation room. the special counsel's investigation of election interference all seems to be picking up a lot of steam right now. >> that's exactly right. from the reporting we've heard is there's been an uptick in the january 6th investigation in recent weeks. the interview of rudy giuliani finally, right? he's a key figure in former president trump's effort to overturn the 2020 election and then today the georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger, i want to remind people why he is so key here. let's take a listen to a brief cliff from the january 2021 call between trump and the secretary of state. >> so, look, all i want to do is this -- i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have because we won the state. >> so raffensperger is not only a witness in the special counsel probe. he is also a key witness in the stat

he is going to talk to brad raffensperger in georgia.entially parallel to the state case. >> that's right. we know the grand jury interviewed a number of the fake electors who appeared for testimony in d.c. this is an ongoing, serious investigation that's coming to a critical moment based on who we know went into the courthouse thus far. i think an important thing to remember is that this isn't just about january 6 itself. we shorthanded it as the january 6 investigation. but it is more about the peaceful transfer of power and efforts to interfere with this. this is something that prosecutors are looking at closely. it's undetermined whether brad raffensperger will actually have to testify before the grand jury or where that will stand. i think it's a very serious investigation that we could see news coming out within the next coming weeks. >> we know the former president is speaking in new hampshire. you could get more reaction within this hour. to stay with us on all of this. ryan, joyce, jonathan, thanks to all of you. >>> nearly four

neil: brad raffensperger, good to see you again.ous heat and criticism for simply doing his job. that was then and enormous election since. that does it here. fox continues. ♪ >> a newly released mug shot of joran vandersloot, the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of natalee holloway. vant er vandersloot is now in the u.s. pleading not guilty to wire fraud. jacqui: i'm jacqui heinrich. he was extradited to stand trial on american soul, accused of trying to sell holloway's mother fake informio

brad raffensperger and other state officials have spoken to investigators in both investigations.ne key difference, though, is if former president or any of his allies are charged at the state level, state convictions are outside of the scope of any possible presidential pardons. >> shan, we know how powerful for a prosecutors that the tool of having audio tape could be. we've talked about it given cnn's exclusive recording and access to the audio tape of the president two years ago in new jersey with regards to his documents. but in this case, we already know prosecutors have that recording of trump and raffensperger. what other possible questions could they have. >> they could be asking him about what his impression was of the leverage, there is i think reporting that he felt threatened about it. and what the context was. i mean, he obviously feels that their election security was perfectly fine. and i think they want to understand to try to get to trump's state of mind about this. i mean he's very much of a no-brainer witness for smith's team to talk to and it is good that they

michael, what do you expect the special counsel's office will ask brad raffensperger?well, i'm glad to be with you today. i think this is just sort of belt and suspenders for the special counsel. there is no shortage of public statements made by the former secretary of state or the secretary of state here about former president's efforts to call him, what the tape meant, how he felt about it. i think that's what he's going to try to get to the bottom of. were you intimidated. he wants to know if he puts him up as a witness that he's going to say, yes, i felt like i was being pressured by the president at the time to do something that was unlawful. so he's going to ask about that. i'm sure he's going to ask about the logistics of the taping, what he knew, did he know he was being recorded at the time, and did anybody say that, when did he learn it, that may be one issue because we are a one party state here and one party to a recording know that the recording is being made and the secretary has said he did not know at the time. he may be trying to clean some of that up.

attempts to overturn the 2020 election, including a phone call made to georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger asking him to find more votes. >> numbers will keep going up. >> reporter: raffensperger is scheduled to talk with investigators on wednesday. >> the trial is scheduled for august 14th, but the former president's lawyers are expected to push the trial back to a later date. >>> meanwhile, the supreme court rejects an election law theory backed by supporters of former president donald trump. north carolina republicans had sought to overrule the state supreme court which wanted to throw out the congressional map. they said state legislatures should have more control when it comes to elections. the high court dismissed that saying that state courts have the ability to apply restraints and federal courts can supervise in certain circumstances. >>> more military aid on its way to ukraine. the white house announcing a half billion dollar package. the white house says that it will support counteroffensive operations, helping to protect the ukrainian people from rocket attacks. the money will

she had the tape, the infamous tape of donald trump calling the georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger and saying "i need you to find 11,780 votes." that became public on january 3rd. - yeah. - 2021. we're coming up on three years and she hasn't indicted? it took her a year and a half to even get a grand jury seated. that is utterly inexcusable. one of the charges that would be made against her is that she slow-played this so it could land close to the election. i don't know what her defense is gonna be to that. - do you think she was political? do you think it was politically-motivated? - well, let me say this. i know that she has shown terrible polital judgment as a prosecutor. she has made public comments. she's given over 40 public interviews about this case during which she has voiced her opinion that this is in fact a crime and her opinion that donald trump had a guilty state of mind. those are questions for the grand jury, the grand jury hasn't even voted on yet. she has fundraised off this case. so this is an example of where prosecution does cross the political line and can le

been a separate probe in georgia with prosecutors, into the election and conversations with brad raffenspergerg with another election official the georgia secretary of state office suggesting smith's team is ramping up its focus on the former president's abbas to try to overturn the election results and that is separate from some of the other cases, is just a pileup of potential real legal jeopardy for the former president. real legaljeopardy for the former president.- real legaljeopardy for the former president. how does it actually victim? _ former president. how does it actually victim? we _ former president. how does it actually victim? we will- former president. how does it actually victim? we will see. i actually victim? we will see. this moves _ actually victim? we will see. this moves on _ actually victim? we will see. this moves on two _ actually victim? we will see. this moves on two tracks, i actually victim? we will see. | this moves on two tracks, the legal track and the political track. very early days but it appears in the gop primary contest, all of these added pressures are ju

. >> dexamethasone to interview brad raffensperger about the special counsel. they present to find the votes they needed. help us understand the value that he has in that case? >> first off, he's not someone who can be painted by the defense as having an act to grind. more importantly, whenever you have someone in relation to the conversation is important evidence. or so it would appear. >> thank you for your insights. we appreciated. >> thank you. >> russia security services said they closed the criminal case for those responsible for the revolt over the weekend. the leader of the mutiny arrived in belarus and it continues. >> at the kremlin today, a grand ceremony as vladimir putin saw to recast the revolt as a moment of pride. among the hundreds in attendance a strained-looking defense minister sergei shoigu; his removal had been a key demand of the mutineers. putin praised russian government troops as heroic. >> you defended the order, lives, freedom. you saved our motherland from turmoil. he stopped the civil war. you acted clearly and harmoniously. >> day

you're seeing brad raffensperger. sessions with rudy giuliani. you see them looking to talk to eastman. they're trying to lock down everybody's story. the giuliani one is particularly interesting because their focus was really the period from election day, november 3rd, to january 20th. what happened on what dates during that thing -- during that time period? what was the purpose of the alternate electors? what was the legal precedent for that? did they actually have the evidence of the fraud? i spoke to two people who were familiar with that conversation, who said it was a very cooperative, not acromonious. >> you have other sides that suggest to you that giuliani is being cooperative. >> the fact he is there at all means he's being cooperative. they can subpoena him. but the fact he's willing to interview in advance of that, means he's being cooperative. i think there's been too much craziness from him. too many false statements. too much nuttiness. substance abuse issues. i don't think they will sign him up as a cooperating witness and use him

later today jack smith's team will speak to georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger as part of their january 6 investigation. you may remember then president trump called raffensperger in january of 2021 to press him to, quote, find the votes needed to win georgia which joe biden won by nearly 12,000 votes. here is part of that now infamous call. >> so look, all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11 sk1,780 votes which is one more than we have, because we won the state. >> and we're also learning that the former attorney rudy giuliani has been interviewed as part of the probe. the meeting between giuliani, his attorney and investigators took place in recent weeks. paula reid explains. >> reporter: he was accompanied by his lawyer robert costello for this sitdown with special counsel prosecutors, but we have some idea of what they might want to talk to him about. we know late last year he was subpoenaed for documents related to payment that's received around the time he was filing legal challenges on behalf 6 former president trump trying to overturn the results on the 20

was all unfolding and prosecutors would ask about that and trump's infamous phone call from brad raffenspergerfind 1,780 votes and he was involved in the packaging and packing up and moving out of the white house and he was the liaison. he touches every strand here. >> all of the strands that prosecutors will be looking at at this point in time. ellie honig, thank you very much. he is everywhere. thank you very much, appreciate it. >> right now, pope francis is back in a hospital in rome where he's currently undergoing abdominal surgery. according to the vatican, he has been placed under general anesthesia to fix an abdominal hernia, barbie nadal is in rome where he is being cared for. we are awaiting from the hospital on the pope's condition. what are you hearing from the vatican? >> there are a couple of things to take aware, this wasn't emergency surgery per se. he had an appointment at the hospital and this is a hospital where popes have gone for many, many decades for primary care. he had an appointment yesterday that lasted about an hour and he attended his weekly audience in st. peter's

one is joyingrudy giuliani, the is brad raffensperger, two year after trump urged him in a now tapedous phone call. sara murray is here. first, with rudy giuliani, who was a very public voice, both of false claims, bud also seemed to be a pressure campaign to overturn the election, do we know if he an witness or a target himself. >> we certainly don't have reporting he's a target, but he was named in a number subpoenas that went out long ago. we know he got a subpoena months and morchts ago about payments he got around 2020, and he played a role in overseeing the fake electoral process across 11 states. we know prosecutors had been asking about that. >> and we know some have been offered immunity for their testimony. let's talk about raffensperger. he's been very public about some of these attempts. >> it's interesting they're talk to go him so late in the game. he is such an obvious person. we knew so much about that phone call, almost in real time. this could be a sign that jack smith just wants to check the box, makes sure the team talks to everyone that could be relevant. we have

neil: brad raffensperger, good to see you again. georgia secretary of state, took enormous heat and criticism for simply doing his job. that was then and enormous election since. that does it here. fox continues. ♪ >> a newly released mug shot of joran vandersloot, the prime suspect in the 2005 disappearance of natalee holloway. vant er vandersloot is now in the u.s. pleading not guilty to wire fraud. jacqui: i'm jacqui heinrich. he was extradited to stand trial on american soul, accused of trying to sell holloway's mother fake information about the location of her daughter's remains. charles watson is tracking this case and joining us live. >> right now, joran vandersloot is in the custody of u.s. marshals until he's put on trial for an alleged financial scheme to the family of natalee holloway. beth holloway saw vandersloot for the first time in person. he with as arraigned and pled not guilty to one count each of wire fraud and exportion, this coming after a 2010 indictment that charges vandersloot with the scheme where he allege

too early," what we're learning about an upcoming meeting between georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger and special counsel jack smith. >>> plus new developments in donald trump's hush money case. the legal peril only growing for the former president. those stories and a check on sports and weather when we come right back. weather when we com right back mmm, popcorn. (alternate voice) denture disaster, darling! we need poligrip before crispy popcorn. (regular voice) let's fix this. (alternate voice) poligrip power hold + seal gives our strongest hold and 5x food seal. if your mouth could talk, it would ask for... poligrip. power e*trade's award-winning trading app makes trading easier. with its customizable options chain, easy-to-use tools and paper trading to help sharpen your skills, you can stay on top of the market from wherever you are. e*trade from morgan stanley. arthritis pain? we say not today. tylenol 8 hour arthritis pain has two layers of relief. the first is fast, the second is long-lasting. we give you your day back, so you can give it everything. tylenol. number one docto

. >> reporter: that's trump on the phone with georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger.his loss in the 2020 election. >> i think it's pretty clear that we won. we won very substantially georgia. >> reporter: that wasn't true. trump lost georgia by 11,779 votes. on the recording he's heard asking raffensperger to find enough votes to give trump a win. >> i just want to find 11,780 votes. which is one more than we have. because we won the state. >> reporter: raffensperger didn't play ball. trump is now under investigation by georgia's fulton county district attorney for his actions on the phone call in question. randi kaye, cnn. >> one late note on this latest tape talking to abc in semafor on the way back from new hampshire the former president insisted he was not showing off classified documents in the clip. quoting him now, "i would say it was bravado, if you want to know the truth. it was bravado." he goes on to say "i was talking and holding up papers but i had no documents, i didn't have any documents." that's his latest explanation. next, a blistering report by the

jack smith's investigators, special counsel investigators, are set to interview brad raffensperger tomorrow. feels a little late in the game given we have know since january 2021 that trump called raffensperger, put all this pressure on him to try to overturn the vote count in georgia. but it is coming as we have seen this sort of flurry of activity from the special counsel's office and trying to lock down witnesses. >> and that, of course, the focus of the other investigation, the fulton county d.a.'s investigation in the state of georgia. sara murray, thanks so much. so much to follow every day. boris? >> a lot to follow right now. just in to cnn, the former president now responding to the audiotape that cnn obtained and just played for you. cnn's kristen holmes is on the trail with the former president in new hampshire, where he spoke earlier today and, kristen, in trump's response, did he get reiterate these were not classified documents? >> reporter: well, actually, he did not talk about this document at all. you heard that clip that sara just played for you from the brett bear intervi

hours from now special counsel jack smith's team will speak to georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger the first time. raffensperger is a republican who pushed back when trump demanded this -- >> so look, all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes, which is one more than we have, because we won the state. >> we also have exclusive new cnn reporting that federal investigators interviewed rudy giuliani region as part of the same investigation. multiple sources tell cnn that meeting took place some time in the last few weeks, but they declined to say what specifically investigators focused on in the interview. this comes as there are new developments in the classified documents case as well. former president trump is now trying out a new defense after cnn obtained the 2021 audio of him seeming to show off those documents that he called secret. >> i had a whole desk full of lots of papers and mostly newspaper articles, copies of magazines, copies of different plans, copies of stories, having to do with many, many subjects, and what was said was absolutely fine and very perf

we know that brad raffensperger is going to be interview by the special counsel's office. what does that suggest to you in terms of his -- how aggressively he's pursuing this? how broad a blanket he's throwing over the investigation? >> yeah, so prosecutors here look like they're doing what prosecutors do when they're trying to get ready to make a prosecutive decision, and they're trying to get ready to decide whether they have sufficient evidence to indict, do they have that evidence on and what the charges should be, and that doesn't presuppose they've made the decision to go ahead. they're just dotting the i's and crossing the t's. you for instance you have to talk to rudy giuliani. he's either a witness for you or against. you've got to lock him down under oath. and really what's going on here i think is an assessment of what those charges could look like. it could be a very narrow charge focused solely on a conspiracy involving the effort to interfere in the electoral college vote certification, or it could be something much broader that looks at all the lawyers aroun

just one day later senator lindsey graham would make a phone callou to brad raffensperger, asking raffensperger if he had thege to throw out mail-in ballots from certain counties. so, yeah, a whole lot of wild things were happening in and around november 12, 2020. and in the middle of it on that day the senate made a decision that went virtually unnoticed at the time. >> nomination to the judiciary aileen mercedes canon for the southern district ofs florida. >> seeing none the yeas are 56, the nays are 21. >> that was the moment the senatet voted to con-term a yog assistant attorney named aileen canon to a lifetime appointment to the senate judiciary. now, during his presidency trump appointed 231 judges to the federal 1 bench, which was an impressive number. one of the most successful parts of the entire trump administration was his ntreshapg of the federal judiciary. it was in many ways the reason so many conservatives held their noses in support of trump. the s promises he made and the promises he kept about filling the courts with conservative judges. so canon was a part of that braulder tr

perfect phone call between then president donald trump and georgia's top official secretary brad raffensperger. >> so all i want to do is this, i just want to find 11,780 votes which is one more than we have. >> which is what more than we have. to be clear trump lost to biden by 11,779 votes. anyone at the top election official that state to find him in amount of votes that's one vote more. he's on tape saying, you just heard it. and it's because of that taped phone call over the last two years many legal experts have said time and time again, it is georgia that presents the greatest legal danger to the ex president. but willis's investigation goes much further than just one phone call. her probe also reportedly includes the trump campaign's attempt to create a slate of fake electors who were then fraudulently tell congress that the states electoral votes were cast for trump when they were cast for biden. in just the last few weeks we've also in the investigation was broadened to include activities in other states which many legal experts view as a sign that prosecutors maybe building a sprawl