were there any other choices other than carroll o'connor? >> guest: i am glad you asked the question. i have a funny story. he walked into read five lines and that was it. but before that i was in new york looking actors i saw carol for the first time he nailed the role in california but in the course of auditioning actors for the first time i thought i wonder if mickey rooney? [laughter] . . and he's good no you have read here. [laughter] and i said well it's a character. tell her so i said well the guy is a bigot and you don't say this hemap. they are going to kick you into the streets. [laughter] they are going to shoot you dead. you want to do a show for the mac, listen to this. [laughter] vietnam vet schardt lined large dog. [laughter] [applause] you don't forget that. >> it's just three words. i just want to thank you so mu much, so much. [applause] >> hold it one second. i want to thank you so much.

take a look between carroll o'connor and george jefferson. >> hello, mr. jefferson! i, mrs. bunker.y, jefferson there, how are ya? listen the former invitation you sent by your wife, i think that was very white of ya. (laughter) >> that's exactly the way i felt when i did it. (laughter) >> george, why don't you take archie over to the bar and offer him a drink? >> hey, jefferson! i see you hosing down your morech yesterday. >> yeah? when am i going to see you hosing down yours? bartender, a drink, please. >> any particular brand? yeah, the expensive brand. what about you, sir? scotch and soda, please. yes, sir. hey, hey, jefferson, there's a switch for you. this guy giving you the big yes, sir. >> he's a bartender, ain't he? yeah, i'm used to it having the other bay around. >> how many servants you got in that mansion you living in. >> what do you mean by that? let me tell you something, that bartender is willing to work for me because if you've got enough green in your pocket then black becomes his favorite color. >> sherman helmsley. he was -- we didn't have -- i didn't have georg

>> carroll o'connor and i disagreed about a great many things. >> like what? he so identified with that role. >> he was carrying a heavy burden. i think it started there. he has a fear i'd seen a lot of actors about stepping out in front of an audience and representing something, anything, whatever that happens to be for millions of people. that's heavy stuff. he was an irish intellectual. seriously intellectual. he thought things had to go a certain way. i don't think he understood the way we did. we, meaning the writers, understood the way he did so we would have arguments. >> i want to talk about sherman helmsley. take a look at this link between carol o'connor and george jefferson. >> hello, mr. jefferson. >> hey, jefferson. listen. the formal invitation you sent, i think it was very white of you. [laughter] >> that's exactly the way i felt when i did it, too. >> george, why don't you take him over to the bar and offer a drink? >> i saw you hosing down her porch yesterday. >> get the manager eight. >> what will it be? >> any particular brand? >> the expens

the same thing was true of carroll o'connor in that character. >> we laughed at george jefferson andbunk erdos. >> they were laughing at that little black guy carrying on the way he was carrying orying on. but they still loved him. >> you have people who think the way archie did and talked the way archie did. it's not an issue that's gone away. you look at immigration and the debate in this country. what would archie have thought of the tea party? >> archie would not -- archie would have denied the tea party. he would have started a coffee party or something. but he was not a hater. that was the secret of archie bunker. he was not the a hater. he was -- he was much more afraid of progress than he was of bigotry. >> that's what it is. afraid of change. >> black people moving into the neighborhood. that's never happened before. >> such an honor to have the great norman lear on with us. >> why are you saying good-bye? >> the show has to end at some point. >> you can stay with us. you know how this works. >>> still ahead, who the president's immigration move could have the biggest impact

the writing was brilliant, carroll o'connor was brilliant, i can't get it out of my mind. thank you. >> tell the what the episode was about. >> it is christmas eve dinner. one of mike's old high school friends surprises him from canada. he had been a draft dodger, one of the other guests in the house whose son died in vietnam and everybody is afraid to tell archy where the young man is from and why he is in from canada and it comes out anyway. heavy-duty fight starts about the vietnam war which affected all of our families all those years and at the end the father of the deceased boy tells archie i am glad he is here. >> the father of of that that had been killed in vietnam. archie says he won't sits at christmas dinner with somebody who escaped the war. then he turns to the father of the deceased that and says you tell him, whatever his name was, you tell him and the guy stands up and says very slowly, my son did what he sought was right. he didn't believe in the war and he wouldn't fight and he died. >> he would want to be there too. >> if my son were alive he would be s