catholic chapels were closed. catholics were restricted to practicing their faith in their homes. the catholic community lived under those conditions until the american revolution. both charles, carol and his father although wealthy landowners were barred from active participation in politics because of their roman catholic faith. despite this legal restrictions, in the early 1770s charles carol became a powerful voice for independence from british rule. eventually he was elected to represent the colony of maryland and in various committees and was selected as a delegate to the continental congress in 1776. then carol signed the declaration of independence and he was the only catholic to too so. just a few years later our founding fathers included the protection of the free exercise of religion in the first amendment of our constitution. in reflecting on his time in the constitutional convention, george washington stated in 1789 these words. he said if i could have entertained the slightest apprehension that the constitution framed in the convention where i had the honor to presid

because they are representing the catholic church where they go as catholic nuns. they cannot that is against the rules of the church, you can't have it both ways. can't take it upon yourself the authority of catholic nun then preach that which is against the church not expect authorities to come down. >> that's what's going on here. it's a doctrineal discussion, not political amongst hierarchy of the catholic church. >> however, it's also about like whom they have invited to speak, you would think american nuns are much better educated than most nuns. and catholicism is thriving because of a huge influx of 80% uneducated immigrants. actually native born americans are leaving the church because of the constraints, because catholic church still operates at hierarchy does the same as it did in medieval times. they see opportunities and they're not joining the church. my question is -- they're not joining the -- not giving their lives away for free like they were. toiling for free up hospitals and schools and my question is, if the vatican keeps it up is it going down

i worked at the santa clara university the catholic university and am in daily mass kind of catholic. so i am very much steeped in the catholic church although i do like to say that i am married to a nice jewish girl but there are more priests and my son's bar mitzvah and then rise >>> but also take a look when the veil was pulled tout ever it was a decade ago on what had the church had the wisdom for whatever reason to bring in people who could finally be objective about this and one of them is one of your coat conference people. >>> when the church exploded 10 years ago my first reaction was what took people so long it been at this for many years and we have a conference of the topic in 1998 at santa clara university in a press conference about this and it was not well attended people weren't interested then. so when this all exploded in 2002, the u.s. council catholic bishops hired the top ranking female in the fbi who's no. 3 in the fbi. to come and start a new office in charge of the need protection. so there's a top-notch fbi professional, and in and basically worked very closel

catholic woman. i have no place at this table. this table is for men. >> janet walton is a roman catholic nun who has been professor of worship at union since 1981. she's one of several catholic women on the faculty here. >> it's very difficult for me to imagine that millions of catholics never experience a woman leading the liturgy. because i think it matters. it's not essentially that i think it makes a difference whether a woman or a man does it, but that no women can do it is a very big problem in the catholic church. >> part of how it matters, she argues, is in portraying a fuller vision of faith. >> there are lots of ways in which the experiences of being a woman and having the experiences that go with being a woman do affect the way one understands god. >> it's not just about having the same place as men in ministry. i mean, certainly we need all those same rights and need access to as many of those positions, absolutely, and equal pay, for sure, but it's also about bringing all of our uniquen

from the catholic point of view. that's my worry about some of the sort of i think some of the described. >> mike or barb, anything to add? >> in the back, last row. >> i'm a soon to be graduate of the university of indiana. i'm going to be staff from during at my time at college. i have been growing in my respect an affection for catholics. even though i wasn't raised as one. as i join staff with the campus administrate try. do you have any advice or insight that might further catholic, even gel call relationships? >> here is my advice, it's very id owe sin karattic, but i talk a lock in the book about the success of the evangelical callet lick starting in the 1970s and continue together present day. i think there is an enormous amount that has been done sort of in common between catholics and the evangelical sort of politically in social activism as terms of care for the poor. that kind of interconfessional cooperation, you know, that's an obvious sort of focus, right? but i also think that it is very important for

so is the catholic church. because the u.s. conference of catholic bishops fired off a letter to ryan saying "a just spending bill cannot rely on disproportionate cuts in essential services to the poor and vulnerable persons. it requires shared sacrifice by all." shared sacrifice? that's just bishop code for raising taxes on the wealthy. how dare they? (laughter) jesus himself said "render unto cesar what is cesar's and hide in the cayman what is is the caymans" (laughter) but ryan was not daunted by the bishop's attack. he took his ministry to the preeminent catholic university, georgetown. >> i suppose there are that there are some catholics who for a long time thought that they had a monopoly of sorts. not exactly on heaven, but on the social teaching of our church. >> stephen: sadly car, thol schism is full of these people who think they have a monopoly on interpreting the social teaching. they're called bishops. (laughter) but these guys don't count because the catholic church isn't known for its centralized authority (lau

new york, the michigan catholic conference and catholic charities.esus never mentioned birth control, is this issue about religious freedom or keeping your numbers up? isn't this issue really about women's health? and where do celibates get off telling other people to have kids. if the bishops had confidence in their people make it available and tell the flock never to use it and see if they use it. joining me now is executive director of catholic united james salt. are the catholics serving what some call a right wing political agenda. >> this is certainly in service to a political agenda but more importantly we think this is an insult for those who live in constant fear of persecution, i'm speaking of christian in iraq for these catholic organizations to some how compare their religious liberty to the religious liberty of those who suffer and die for their beliefs is an insult. >> that's a valid point and it seems to me its more of a religious health issue than a religious freedom issue. >> this isthe catholic church is more known for its public po

from the catholic community.ation needed to be broadened. that happened. if you are a woman who works for a catholic hospital or a catholic college and you want to give birth control, the cath lick institution is not paying for that. you have to go through your insurer. let me point out, i think this is very much sensitive to the catholic moral principle of not cooperating with something you morally disagree with. so the obama administration was sensitive to a the catholic moral principle in this case. i think that's sometimes missed. >> why is this rule or how is this rule -- i don't understand, an infringement on religious liberty? >> i don't understand it either. >> is it -- >> i don't see it. i mean i don't think this passes sort of the laugh test for most catholics and most americans who know there are threats to religious liberty, like in iraq, in saudi arabia in the middle east where people are beaten and killed for religious convictions. there are serious concerns we should be talking about. when we have

. >> it is not just the catholic church. there are other ones. >> bill: you know, it seems to me, i remember the days when the catholic church, for the most part, i'm going back to jfk and the nuns, they were out -- you saw rallies where there were nuns in the front row, you know. they're out there cheering on john f. kennedy. today the catholic church has become almost an arm of the republican party. at least -- >> the nuns are out there fighting the good fight. >> bill: the nuns are still fighting the good fight. >> they split with the bishops. >> bill: the nuns supported obama care. laura bassett is here and jamal simmons and you at "full court press." join the conversation. give us a call at 1-866-55-press. >> announcer: on your radio, on tv the "bill press show." new on current tv. it's go time. >>every weeknight cenk uygur calls out the mainstream media. >>the guys in the middle class the guys in the lower end got screwed again. >>i think you know which one we're talking about. the overwhelming majority of the country

that leaves out dozens of other catholic organizations such as catholic schools, universities, hospitals and charities. >> even the work of mother teresa in caring for the poorest and most needy people would not qualify as religious enough. >> reporter: catholic institutions note hhs only defines organizations as religious if they hire and serve people of the same faith. >> that definition is so narrow and so unprecedented that virtually all catholic institutions would be excluded. >> reporter: because they serve anyone who needs help. the archdiocese of washington, for instance, serves 100,000 people through schools and charities and the very mission of such catholic institutions is to serve everyone. >> when as many wiser people have said, it changes the church from saying are you hungry to are you catholic? >> reporter: when it first issued the ruling, the obama administration sought to turn the uproar into a fight against contraception which catholic institutions vigorously dispute. >> hard to think of what medicine is more widely available and relatively inexpensive and for many, ma

i would take catholic hospitals and catholic charitable organizations as part of civil society. i don't think it's helpful to freedom. i don't think it's helpful to the society for catholic charities, for instance, or catholic adoption agencies to be forced to pull out of a state because they won't place children with same-sex couples. that's what they had to do in massachusetts. there are some who believe the government wants to wither these civil societies and mediate institutions. for instance, under the stimulus package, all student loans are now run by the government. i think that's a bad idea. i'm not particularly fond of banks, but i'd rather take my chances with a bank than with the federal government. you'd have a little more redress of grievance. when it comes to sexual radicalism, i don't think there's any question that that's a huge issue and one where, when it comes to sexual politics, it's almost uniquely intolerant of my view. i think we need to appreciate and nuture mediating institutions in civil society between individuals and the government, not wither them. >

catholics had to -- the catholic church had to work its way towards a truly robust understanding of religious liberty and embraces the broader principles of democratic and republican government and my own sense of that and i would be curious to know your perspective on this is that part of it had to do with what the phrase religious liberty meant to a church whose hierarchy for a long time really was european. the experience of the french revolution it seems to me really shaped the idea that catholic relics had what the experience meant. that meant religious differentism, the idea that religious obvious don't bind or immoral to take religious obvious. and the complete comprehensive subservient of the church to the state. it was only when the church got a sense, leadership of the catholic church got an idea about religious liberty one that i think americans can claim some credit for. one very strongly detached from the french idea, one that would not relegate religion to the private domain of life or attempt to eradicate it all together, that the leadership of the church at the second vatican

catholics.do and as many wiser people said it changes from the church saying are you hungry to are you a catholic? >> under this unprecedented definition of what is and is not religious ministry, even the work of mother teresa carrying for the poorest and most needy people would not qualify as religious enough. >> bret: well, 43 catholic institutions are challenging the administration's healthcare law. the president's healthcare law. we called the h.s.s., health and human services and the response is "we decline to comment on pending litigation." lawsuits are filed about the decision that only catholic institutions such as churches are exempted from providing wide range contraceptive coverage an not schools, universities, hospitals, charities. therein lies the problem. they say it's about religious freedom. back with the panel. how big of a deal they've filed lawsuits? >> big deal with public relations. you have another attempt to delegitimize what the administration has done. this is a long tim

a catholic charity.the religious vocation. that's why this suit is being brought. because if you are outside protection of the first amendment, in a catholic hospital or a catholic charity, then the state can dictate you do anything it wants, even if it's in vay violation of the deepest doctrineal beliefs. >> we are following up on this story this week. 30 of the lawsuits mention this. the religious freedom restoration act, which was brought forward by then representative chuck schumer now senator chuck schumer from new york. democrat. late senator ted kennedy from massachusetts brought forward in 1993 protect religious exercise from laws that might unintentionally restrict it. 30 of the lawsuits mention that particular law. we will follow it. that is it for the panel. stay tuned for an example of how not to end an interview. [ male announcer ] every day, thousands of peoe are choosing advil. i'm keith baraka and i'm a firefighter. and it's very physically demanding. if i'm sore i not at my best. advil i

are religious institutions, but that a catholic school or a catholic hospital or a catholic charity, they have non-catholics who are working for them and they serve people who are noncatholic, those aren't religious institutions and therefore they fall under the purview, under the jurisdiction of this man date, and that is what they are taking, the government, the obama administration, to court about. >> and how will that play out, do you think, as we get into the election? it's certainly reverberated. >> it is certainly going to be a political issue. it could all go away as a legal issue depending on what the supreme court does. if the supreme court strikes down next month, they are expected to rule one way or the other sometime in june, if they strike down the individual mandate, then all this goes away because the mandates for the catholic church goes away, swell the mandates to everybody else. on the other hand, if it's upheld it will continue to be an issue and the catholic vote is an important vote. it's about 24% of the electorate. and four of the last five votes of the cathol

confessional cooperation is an obvious focus it is important for christianity for catholics to be catholic protestants to be protestants the differences that will really aipac them and. [laughter] but to recognize themselves from brothers and sisters in christ it could attract outsiders as well as a testament to take the commonality seriously and differences as well. that debate. >> i strongly agree that the points made of the broader public role but it is the interesting side effect of conservative politics in america. the protestant divide was often violent. the rights and philadelphia and balances salted ministry to the deposition conservative catholics and protestants into the same tranches not in that proximity before. i remember pro-life march is coming from liberty university with the knights of columbus that brought in the same political movement mick have the damaging effects that rapprochement was in ideological to some extent but much less the end of the same cultural to other exchange things the pope is often referred to as the antichrist. is something that has happened to reli

say that falls into the definition of what isn't a catholic institution or religious institution.ke cardinal whirl would say that is part of our ministry and that we don't minister just to catholics we minister to everyone because we are catholic, so you are exactly right that is part of the big issue here is the definition of what is a religious institution. >> so chris give me a sense of the gravity of this, how big of a deal is it these organizations are doing this and how damaging could it be to the obama campaign given many american catholics are indeed liberal voters. >> well, i think it could be a big deal. there are a couple different ways this could play out first of all supreme court is going to decide next month whether or not to strike down the individual mandate, if they decide to do that and there is some belief they might, by a narrow 5-4 margin, this whole thing goes away because then the mandate, and not only individuals, but also on institutions like the catholic church would go away if it doesn't then these lawsuits will go up and may end up before the supreme c

catholic church. nobody we are talking about catholic high schools or schools. right wing fundamentalists. and my question is what is the big news story? why cover it? >> dana: andrea, please explain this. >> andrea: catholic church never, one of the largest charity, never done anything like this in the history of the catholic church. this is why it's news story. the hypocrisy to get to your point on the media. the broadcast network has been silent for four days. you know what they decided to cover? cbs evening news covered the catholic church but it was predator priests. abc and nbc are silent. there was a long five-minute piece on predator priests but not one mention of this lawsuit. historical. >> bob: you don't think predator priests are much more important story for the good of our children? >> andrea: think about it for a religious organization sued the bush administration. >> bob: no church has sued here. >> dana: it's the two largest u.s. archdiocese. >> bob: but they are not churchs suing. >> dana: here is what it is. they are objecting to what they see

i would take catholic hospitals and catholic charitable organizations as part of civil society. i don't think it's helpful to freedom, i don't think it's helpful to the society, for catholic charities, for instance, our catholic adoption agencies, to be forced to pull out of a state because they won't -- they won't place children with same-sex couples. which is what they had to do in massachusetts. there are some who believe the government wants to wither these civil societies and mediate in institutions. for instance, under the stimulus package, all student loans are now run by the government. i think that's a bad idea. i'm not particularly fond of banks but i'd rather take my chances with a bank than with the federal government. you've got a little more redress of griefance. when it comes to sexual radicalism, i don't think there's any question that's a huge issue. and one where, when it comes to sexual politics, it's almost uniquely intolerant of any dissenting view. i think we need to appreciate and nurture mediating institutions in civil society between individuals and the

impose unacceptable burdens on the poor as understood in the catholic tradition. if that budget were to become law, would these catholics be morally obligated to disobey it? this brings us to the most remarkable feature of the bishop's argument. their insistence if law is unjust we must disobey it. it's easy to accept a less demanding formulation if a law is unjust, we may disobey it because we have a moral warrant to do so. but there is, i needn't remind you, a huge gap between may and must. the principle we're forbidden to participate in evil is far too broad. we participate in evil to some extent whenever your tax dollars support activities that violate what we believe to be just and right. are we obligated to stop paying taxes? here again principled -- is needed. we must do our best to determine the degree of participation, its proximity to or remoteness from our agency and the balance of justice and injustice in the act. in the spirit of charity, i have saved for last what i regard as the weakest point in the bishop's thesis. when civil society institutions a

you have got catholic priests and nuns out there, then you have got folks who run catholic hospitalst refuse the rule of law which is the one thing that binds us all together in this country. the rule of law. lots of laws people don't like but they have to follow them. >> there is also that freedom of religion clause. and the fact that the catholic church is living with that freedom of religion. we have the right to do that within our organization. we have the absolute right. people working there can choose other places to work and i will tell you something else. my daughter in fact works in a catholic school in los angeles. and so do many other young girls work in catholic schools. there are ways around this. if you want ways around it. you can go to your doctor, you can get a letter from your doctor. you can take it to the insurance company and the insurance company with the letter from the doctor will allow you if you wish to in fact get your birth control. but you have to get a letter from your doctor. megyn: i asked somebody about that from a catholic institution saying, because

catholics -- the catholic church had to work its way toward a truly robust understanding of religiousliberty and embrace the broader principles of democratic, republican government. my own sense of that, and i'm curious to know your perspective on this, is that part of it had to do with what the phrase religious liberty meant to a church whose hierarchy for a long time really was european. the experience of the french revolution it seems to me really shaped the idea that catholic had about what religious freedom in and men and that meant things like religious relativism and the idea that religious vows to not wind in attempting to bind your own conscience against mutual reflection in the complete comprehensive subservience of the church to the state, and it was only when the church.a. sense of a different idea about religious liberty. i think americans can claim credit for. one that would not relegate religion to the private domain of life or attempt to eradicate it altogether. that, the leadership of the church in the second vatican council willie could step forward with a full embra

it should be regular catholics.lking about and if anything it's an attempt by the left to take over the regulations with regard to the church and these are the very people that obama has been using. i repeat, using to advance his case. it's a power grab. it's basically a governmental power grab. and it's based on violating religious freedom. >> gregg: thank you for your commentary, good to see you. >> arthel: coming up, a california man clears his name while spending years behind bars. while vindication may be it, there's debate over what happens to his former accuser. ♪ [ acoustic guitar: slow ] [ barks ] ♪ [ upbeat ] [ barks ] beneful playful life is made with energy-packed wholesome grains... and real beef and egg. to help you put more play in your day. >> gregg: serious legal issues raised after a california man is cleared of a crime he never committed. it ruined his life. brian banks was a rising teenage football star pursued by big name colleges when he was convicted of raping, kidnapping. years later, his for

patrick's cathedral, the major roman catholic irish catholic church in new york city. on the opposite side here is hibernian hall. this is an irish fraternal group that was very prominent, around new york city for quite a while and did a great deal in terms of providing assistance to new irish immigrants and really one of the central institutions of the irish-american community in new york city. so they're marching between these two big architectural symbols of the irish presence in new york and as you look at this, i am not sure you can see the details easily, but there is a flag they use, a regimental flag, all green with an irish harp in the middle and right next to it and also down the way a little bit as well is the american flag so you have both symbols, both expressions of identity, american and irish mixed together. when they were recruiting this regiment, they were waving this green flag right next to the american flag, and they were arguing this is a way to really prove to those doubters, a way to prove to those no nothings that think that catholics can't be

she is speaking at a catholic university. it is between the cardinal and the university, and mcconnel -- the cardinal does exercise authority. >> interesting to hear nina say that universities ought to respect a wide diversity of the few spirit that will be news at harvard, yale, princeton, and georgetown. hircine is declaring that catholic hospitals and charities have to provide contraception, and that is opposed by the catholic church. >> last word. see you next week.

we are all catholics and grew up with catholic social teaching. to my mine the news is not is were georgetown faculty, by conservatives. that is an old story. the news is, that ryan is willing to mix it up in return. why is we the debate important? >> the debate is important for, i tell you, paw, it is important for reasons that both ryan's critics and paul ryan cite. that letter and his talk said the same thing. one in six americans are in poverty. now, the great society started in 1965, creating perhapses to address poverty. lyndon johnson. expansion of government. 50 years later one in six americans are in poverty? after spending trillions and trillions and trillions of particulars. now ryan is saying, first we need accountability. over why that has happened. second, the three main programs, two main programs created then, medicare and medicaid adding in social security, the costs are so large they drain money away from other programs for the poor. and paul ryan is saying we have to look at this and see where it is going. >> this is what the la

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, not all of those girl scouts are catholic.se catholic beliefs on the girl scout and threaten to pull out of the organization? >> i think it's going backwards. if, in fact, everything that the critics of the girl scouts were saying were true, then it's the girl scouts imposing on catholics. catholics are free to join and not to join a voluntary organization. so let's just say hypothetically that the girl scouts were to become hyperpoliticized and were introducing more anti-catholic materials into the classroom and into the girl scouts meetings and the catholic mothers would decide to pull. that's exercising pluralism. that's what's called diversity. >> but you're only talking about one play. you don't have any other evidence to cite, do you? >> well, i'm just saying when the parents have come to this, i just gave you three examples. the world organization, abortion inducing drugs they kind of like. past ceo of the girl scouts of america saying we have a nice relationship with planned parenthood, and anti-catholic play that they

the way they structured the compromise is that the employers, these catholic employers -- colleges, catholictals, catholic charities -- they would still be required to provide the coverage to their employees. they would still get the benefit. but the compromise was that the employer wouldn't have to directly pay for it. they would funnel the payment through the insurance company. now it's kind of a tricky distinction because really all of your payments get funneled through the insurance company. but the administration was hoping that by structuring it that way, they could effectively give schools and hospitals the assurance that their dollars weren't directly going toward this. initially, some catholic groups were optimistic that if you structured it the right way they could have a sense of confidence that if they objected to this policy and objected to providing this on moral grounds that they could feel like that they weren't paying for it. >> ifill: they agreed, all sides agreed, they were going to get behind the scenes and work something out. here we are now with a lawsuit. obviously thi

how strong a legal case do the catholic plaintiffs have here?> this is an extremely strong legal case, paul. it is based on two things. based on the first amendment and free exercise clause and based on a law that was passed in the '90s, a hugely bipartisan law called the religious freedom restoration act and that basically says that for the government to put any burden on rehe lidgee relis to pass a high level of scrutiny and make sure any burden it puts on is the least restrictive or intrusive way of accomplishing its goal. it is clear that the contraception mandate doesn't do that. it is no where close to it. i think that is what they are look at here. >> bill, there is a supreme court precedent, though, a 1990 precedent written by justice scalia in the famous peyote case that said religions must abide by this kind of regulation as long as it applies to everybody. >> generally applicable. >> that is why what colin says is important. the law was passed largely in response to that decision. >> the 1993. >> and it puts the burden on them. the fa