we agreeit this par of cbo, but not that partf cbo. essentially lost the ability to attack the ref.hat's very consequential. that means that this 24 million people losing their insurance figure is going to sink in and it's going to be around donald trump's neck from here on out. >> what does that say that they didn't immediately go out and attack the reves. does that say the white house was concerned about this rate kpg. >> because there were a couple of things that cut in republican's favor. they did say that the deficit is going to be reduced by 337 billion. not inconsequential. the cost of premiums is going to go down. that could be enough. those two items alone, that could be enough to quiet down the conservative house members who've been very unhappy with the bill thus far, but as these guys are saying, this is going to take it nowhere in the senate. that 24 million people losing their coverage is not going to go over and republican -- states with republican senators who know that the medicaid has been expanded in their state and many, many other constituents have coverage now

issues ofddress the the cbo. the reason they don't want to do it is because the report is devastating. pelosi: a teacher says, 1?"t is 1 + perfect.are a look you have to have the numbers and no what you are talking about. the speaker said that he wanted a cbo report before we moved ahead. now, republicans say it is not so important. appointed by the republicans to do the numbers and come as close as possible as to what the impact would be on the health of the american people and the budget. improve the coverage, lower the access.d expand the coverage and decreases the quality of and it costs more for people. itdoesn't achieve anything sets out to do and it is a clear message to the constituents. >> you look at how many republicans have spoken out against the bill and senator who is not someone i said,y agree with, he don't do this so fast. by the way, it rings a little hollow. remember when they said for us to read the bill. cbo issued this report for any thinktee voted and i senator mcconnell will have real diff

now, the top lines of the cbo report, the non-partisan cbo report, just out in the last hour. the big top-line number. in 201,814 million more people would be uninsured under this legislation than under the current law. that would rise to 21 million in 2020 and then a staggering 26 million by the year 2026. the cbo also predicts here that the legislation would reduce the federal deficits by $337 billion over the course of that 2017 to 2026 period. now, before this report came out leading up to this, we heard from many republican leaders preemptively dismissing and down-playing this report, suggesting that the work that the cbo does does not always lead to accurate results. certainly we will will likely hear from more republican leaders the same sort of rhetoric as they sort through this latest report. wolf, democrats already reacting, calling it an enormous blow to the fate of this bill tonight. wolf. >> quickly, the report the cbo report, also says and mick mulvaney, the budget director, made a point of this. that they estimate that over the next ten years the federal deficit

cbo is virtually unassailable. cbo, for democrats and republicans, george bush, barack obama, they appoint this person. he was supposed to be a conservative person. unfortunately for the republicans, he is an honest person. unfortunately, he is honest and they cannot discredit this report. it will resound from one end of america to another. >> the speaker disagrees with the cbo score. rep. pelosi: numbers are eloquent and they speak clearly. and we all respect in have acknowledged we need to know the number of people affected. the amount of money that it will cost. who wins, who loses in that equation. and as i say, in congress they still have not come to terms with criticizing the cbo. because 24 million people losing health insurance is not a problem for them. it is in act of mercy. theyor schumer: i am sure regret they cannot fire the cbo director is easy and slate fired -- as easily as they fired 46 attorneys. we should know the truth before we enact major legislation. the cbo speaks the truth and has been for

you don't trust the cbo scoring?aller: before they revised last time, they put out a report and a -- and they got obamacare to past -- to pass. then they revised it later. the coverage amount is half of what they said they scored to be. host: here are some of the numbers from the editorial of "the wall street journal." there are reasons to doubt the cbo fortune-telling. if you want to read the editorial. mystified --ies is prophecies demystified. patricia, good morning. caller: thank you. my comment is, my husband and i have always had insurance. we were married in 1985. it is the responsible thing to do. we thank god, we have been relatively healthy. next year, for the first time in our adult life, we will not have insurance, not being able to afford it under the current conditions. me thaty does concern people, no matter how many , will be losing their insurance because of our government, our congressman who who we send toen washington to represent us and our concerns. this is a choice that has been made. i have ma

cbo speaks the truth. they've been speaking the truth for decades and to try to attack cbo is simply attacking the messenger. let them address the real issues that cbo reveals. the reason they don't want to do it is because the report is so devastating. >> and when the american people see -- you know, i always tell a story about a little boy in school and he -- first grade or kindergarten. he says not good. perfect. numbers are very eloquent. what you can only do is project here because we're talking about the future. but as we all know, you really cannot go forward to write legislation unless you have the numbers. and you know what you're talking about. and it's -- as i said to you the other day, the speaker signed the letter insisting that we have a cbo report before we proceeded with the affordable care act which we did and we had already written for it. but when it was important then the republicans are saying now it's not so important now. and who's that anyway? who's the congressional budget office a

let them address the real issues that cbo reveals. the reason they do not want to do it is because the report is so devastating. ms. flows in: i always tell the story about a little boy in school. first grade or kindergarten. teachers is, what is number one cause number one and they say, number two. what is number two plus number two and he says number four. not good.s, numbers are very eloquent. what you can do is only projector because we are talking about the future. you really cannot go forward to write legislation unless you have the numbers and you know what you're talking about. as i said to the other day, this bigger was the one who signed the letter saying we had to have a cbo before we are seated with the affordable care act which we did. nowt was important then, republicans are saying, it is not so imported now and who is that anyway? who is this congressional budget office anyway? it is somebody appointed by the republicans to do the numbers and come as close as possible to what the impact would be on the american people o

cbo told us that's right. the numbers i have seen, the cbo says premiums will go down by at least 10% with this plan. it confirms what tom and i have been talking about publicly. we think the idea of taking market competition, putting it into healthcare and getting government out of the way, quality goes up and costs go down. something the cbo may have gotten right is they said the premiums come down in cost. we'll take a couple questions. >> the cbo reports 14 million people will end up without insurance next year. >> if you look at that, it's virtually impossible to have that number so curl. just look at the numbers. there are 8 million people on the exchange currently. i'm not sure how they are going to get 14 million people uninsured with only 8 million people on the exchange. they are indivuals who are on medicaid that they assume will not take the medicaid policy because the mandate ended or something happened? it is just not believable is what we would suggest. we'll look at the numbers and see. >> with

what is your take on the cbo scoring? >> good morning from washington, and according to the cbo it's sunny and 75 degrees this morning. i had to, it's too easy. what we saw is what we expected to see. you used damage control so much and that's not right. the cbo is terrible in counting coverage. 14 million people will lose care in year one, and let's go quickly to what happens in year one. the mandate goes away. that's it. none of the new policies kick in, and that means the cbo is telling you that somebody on the day after the republican plan goes into affect will drop off of medicaid they are getting for free and replace it with nothing. the cbo is assuming once the mandate is gone you will give up your free medicaid and have nothing. the cbo doesn't do a very good job -- >> that seems to asaousume they would intentionally make mistakes, and they are clear the amount of time and unknowns built into this would create vague analyses, and they are transparent about going into it. according to politico you had your own esti

so some of the numbers certainly from cbo. and cbo we'll be very up front about this too. say hey look, this is not a crystal ball, it is an estimate. things are not always going to be 100%. that big one on enrollment, that is when republicans say remember that now if you've got a negative report on our plan. we're going to talk with members of congress from both sides of the aisle about this. and we're going to start with sherry. she is a democrat from illinois. congresswoman, thank you for joining us. let me ask you about that. we're hearing preemptively from the administration, republican supporters of this plan that's in congress right now. they seem to be aepg maybe a negative read out from cbo, and they say hey, if that's the case, keep in mind, cbo was off when it came to obamacare seven years ago. what do you say to that. >> well look what they did this entire weekend. it was trying to undermine the credibility of the congressional budget office. the congressional budget office first of all is nonpartisan. it is considered the gold standard of judging what a govern

and now he's trashing the cbo. kind of reeks of politics. do you think it would be compelling to say to people on the left or the right, i know these numbers are bad, but go along with us with. phase 2 is sympathetic we can't talk about, and phase 3 will be across state line. which no economist will argue compellingly will reduce costs. you base insurance on where you are, not where the company is. you may buy it in new york, but if you're driving in georgia, it's priced in georgia. that's not seen as a home run for cost cutting. there's a lot of unknown here to justify numbers that are pretty scary to someone like president trump who said he wanted to keep people covered if they couldn't take care of themselves. this plan doesn't do that. >> a lot of the numbers this shows are people that don't choose to take health insurance, because the individual mandate will be taken away -- >> a portion. you still have 10 to 14 million people will get thrown off medicaid. >> there is no doubt that this is a difficult process.

charles: cbo score is out. there arcas to abolish the cbo is that warranted?next. why pause a spontaneous moment? cialis for daily use treats ed and the urinary symptoms of bph. tell your doctor about your medicines, and ask if your heart is healthy enough for sex. do not take cialis if you take nitrates for chest pain, or adempas® for pulmonary hypertension, as this may cause an unsafe drop in blood pressure. do not drink alcohol in excess. to avoid long-term injury, get medical help right away for an erection lasting more than four hours. if you have a sudden decrease or loss of hearing or vision, or an allergic reaction, stop taking cialis and get medical help right away. ask your doctor about cialis. this is judy. judy is 63 years old. her mortgage payment is $728 a month. that's almost 9 thousand dollars a year. now judy doesn't think that she'll be able to retire until her mortgage is fully paid off. this is mike. mike is also 63 years old. his mortgage payment was $728 a month. mike thought he would have to work for another 12 years until his mortgage w

that point about the cbo. >> cbo's job is to certify that this qualifies for reconciliation.e budget savings? $337 billion. only needed two. >> thank you, doug. >> thank you. >> stuart: will this delay tax reform more? that's a fair question. we'll answer it, too. es to give investors even more value. and at $4.95, you can trade with a clear advantage. fidelity, where smarter investors will always be. various: (shouting) heigh! ho! ( ♪ ) it's off to work we go! woman: on the gulf coast, new exxonmobil projects are expected to create over 45,000 jobs. and each job created by the energy industry supports two others in the community. altogether, the industry supports over 9 million jobs nationwide. these are jobs that natural gas is helping make happen, all while reducing america's emissions. energy lives here. why do so many businesses rely on the u.s. postal service? all while reducing america's emissions. because when they ship with us, their business becomes our business. ♪ that's why we make more e-commerce deliveries to homes than anyone else in the country. ♪ here, there,

you may nopt agree with frg the cbo report says and there are problems with what the cbo has said.dicts things. they don't always get it right but try their best. it says 24 million americans will not be with insurance who are now. if this passes. should it be a concern for those crafting the repeal and replace bill that fewer americans will be covered? do you care whether fewer americans are covered? >> well, sure. i would like to see people voluntarily purchase health insurance in order to minimize their risk of a significant loss because of illness. but this is america. we believe in liberty and freedom. if you're going to believe in liberty and freedom than you cannot with a heavy boot of the federal government force people to purchase insurance. >> you have to be able to -- you have to be able to afford it. you have to be able to afford insurance. and i don't think that all the people who have been added to the rolls because of obamacare, they certainly -- some of them couldn't afford it before and now they can. >> if you want to get into the affording aspect of it, the best t

price: it was a good cabinet meeting and the cbo report came out. i think it is important that we asked the question, "compared to what?" the fact of the matter is that we have people who have coverage but no care and it is important to remember that the care coverage numbers are going down. the fact that the matter is that right now, there are people who have health coverage but not health care. coverage numbers are in fact going down. if obamacare, the aca, when way, the bottom line is there would be 20 million who would not have covered. the cbo looked at a portion of, but not the entirety of, our plan. we want to make certain that patients are helped and that costs are decreased and they ignored other legislative activities and will make sure that we have a market that works. we disagree strenuously with the report that was put out and we believe that our plan will cover more individuals at a lower cost and give them the choices they want for the coverage they want or themselves and their families, not with the government forces them to buy. i a

>> that's what cbo said.y said they've looked at it, they believe the mandates are a very important part of why people are covered and if you don't have the fact of being uninsured to be illegal, people won't buy the insurance. there's a public policy question there. that's for sure. there's also a research question. is the mandate that effective and getting people into new insurance pools and that's something that people disagree. >> we know from past experience with these 24 million americans, even if they don't have health insurance, they are going to get sick and when they get sick, they are going to go somewhere to seek care, whether it's a hospital or a 24-hour facility, so how do we fix that part of it? >> that part of it is a tiny part of it. we spend almost $4 trillion on health care in this country. that part of it is estimated to be something in the 20 to $30 billion range. if that's the only problem we have, we wouldn't have a national debate over the future of our health care system. we still hav

. >> moving to the cbo scoring. it was two radically different responses to the cbo report by you and secretary price. you said, i am pretty encouraged by it, after reading the entire report. it actually exceeded my expectations. secretary price said we disagree strenuously with the report that was put out. we believe that our plan will cover more individuals at a lower cost. can the two of you be reading the same report? >> yeah. there is a little bit lost in translation there. i agree with tom. he is right that these coverage dropages, i just don't agree with those terms. what i was encouraged with was why cbo qualified and explained why they came up with the estimate, because the government -- if the government stops forcing somebody to buy something that they don't want to buy, they won't buy it. the cbo explained why they had those estimates of droppage. it's not that people are losing something or it's being taken away from them. it's that they'll voluntarily choose not to participate in obamacare if they're n

you've got to take them with a big grain of salt because cbo has been off in this area.y look, based on the first whack at this that cbo took a few years ago, they missed badly. isn't that a fair point? maybe they'd miss badly again? >> well, steve, i don't think so. and if you look at the cbo estimates of the affordable care act, there were lots of moving parts there. and for the most part, they got it exactly right. and when you look at the current proposal and estimates, there are some things that are absolutely certain. one is the almost $600 billion in tax cuts that go to the wealthiest americans and special interests. and if you look at the medicaid numbers, they were on target and most othe loss in coverage over the tenears comes in that category. i was in the room when former chairman of the budget committee, now secretary of health and human services interviewed the current director of cbo. i was the ranking democrat. they picked this person, saying that he had the integrity and the smarts to get it right. so it is -- it is incredibly shameful for them to try no

cbo is part of congress. i think it's awkward for paul ryan took trash the cbo, especially when the director of the cbo was appointed by republicans, perhaps a little easier from the white house to walk away from it. >> the republican health care plan is clark with what president trump promised voters on the campaign trail. since after the election here is what he said in 2015 and 2016. >> i'm not going to cut social security like every other republican and i'm not going to cut medicare or medicaid. >> everything is going to be covered. this is unrepublican, the lower 4 or 5% can't afford private. >> universal health care purchase i'm going to take care of everybody. i don't care if it costs me votes or not. everybody will be taken care of much better than now. >> uninsured person? >> they will be taken care of. >> how? >> i will make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. >> make a deal. who pays for it? >> the government is going to pay for it but we're going to save so much money on the oth

a look at the cbo report, the numbers and the impact >> of course the cbo is going to say if you're not going to force people to buy something they don't want to buy, they won't buy it. at the same time, they are saying our reforms will kick in a lower premiums and make health care more accessible. >> ten years from today, the president trump of the republicans have their way, there would be 24 million more americans without health insurance, a total of 58 million americans living in this country ten years from now will not have health coverage. that's not american. that's wrong. >> bret: chuck schumer reacting to the cbo numbers out today. congressional budget office. some stats from the report about the republican plan. the effects on the federal budget. g.o.p. bill would reduce federal deficits by $337 billion over 2017 to 2026. largest cost comes from repealing many of the tax increases in fees under obamacare. revenues would be reduced by $0.9 trillion. these are the numbers democrats are jumping on. 2018, 14 more -- 14 million more people would be uninsured. 2020, goes to 21 milli

the cbo report you are discouraged by? >> i've seen a lot. i've been reading them half my life. the point i am saying is cbo validated. we are blocked granting medicaid back to the states, saving $880 billion there. this is an $883 billion tax cut for families and small businesses that helps lower their health care costs and it saves money and reduces the deficits. that's really good on all those points. what the cbo is also telling us, by having state-based high-risk pools, tax credits, you can buy what you want in health savings accounts, they are telling us our reforms stabilize the market and lower premiums when the reforms take place. you juxtapose that against a collapsing obamacare system, double-digit premium increases this year, worse next year. very few plans offered. down to one plan in 1 out of 3 counties. zero plans in some places next year. we are witnessing the collapse of obamacare and what cbo is telling us is the replacement plan stabilizes the situation, brings down costs. this is stage one of a three st

how can the cbo know something that doesn't exist, what did you think? >> cbos job is to score bills, says how much money will come in and how much more will go out and they thridelivered their an, they said it will save -- you score the bill, you can't read people's minds, you read language and score it. there are benefits to public policy, the senators, the speaker of the house to make the case that the benefits of this are that the costs are reported. it comes in three phases, worth in terms of what we're saying the cbo numbers released. but it's the president's job in the end if he wants this to pass. >> what do you think david? >> are you saying the cbo should not have issued the numbers of people who will lose their insurance, are you saying they're bogus numbers? >> no, if you look at any cbo, it has a estimate -- you can't get an estimate for taking a bill, we look at tex accurate, how many people will be taking medicaid. >> aren't the numbers credible? >> they are first rate professional numbers as they always are and subject if you read their o

with medicare party this cbo thought it would cost 40% more they thought they would have twice as many people and injured through the individual exchange that number is now 10 million people so this is something the cbo does not do very well as we must come up with a plan to create more options -- not just average back says it doesn't matter if there is a ticket if you can get off on what is the point if you're to paid for $6,000? vat with a bronze plaque and that was offered this year? twenty to have opportunity to have coverage and health care because it has not been right. >> talked-about of markup. >> added time and to many judicial nominations are from the ideological rancor it is hard to see a nominee that is suitable for both parties said they can agree to. in addition to professional xx odds and i believe mr. t6 meets that heidi s. this is from salazar 2006. this week we will begin the committee hearings on the confirmation of justice gorsuch is time we have another voice west of the mississippi. >> [inaudible] >> get will be open my call reconciliation bills. we are anxious to

is fan partisan, and if anything, the cbo is a republican run cbo.t that it comes out with an estimate saying the 24 million people are going to lose over the next 10 years, their health care, 14 million people next year, this is not something to just poo-poo. this is not something you can wash away, it's a huge problem, it's not just a political problem, it's a human problem. we have enormous numbers of people in the country who desperately need health insurance. >> when you say the cbo's numbers were off. how do you respond to that. >> i don't understand -- >> by a lot. >> wait a minute, can i say what i don't understand? the original cbo estimates of obama care was off because there were changes that had to be made in obama care, and a lot of states did not express. did not decide to expand medicaid coverage obviously there's going to be a change in terms of what the estimate is going to be. that doesn't mean that right now we can disregard the cbo's estimate, this is serious stuff. there is no other highly regarded estimate of what's going to hap

even if these numbers did not match the cbo numbers, at least they could compare the two.hat the republicans have nothing to offer with regard to comparing the cbo report it puts them in a bind. >> bernie sanders said the republicans doubts on this whole cbo estimate he called them slimy, if you will. there is going to be a huge fight right now in the house and later in the senate. >> absolutely. we're already seeing a sort of difference of opinion even among republicans as to how reliable this report is, how much stock they want to put in this report. speaker ryan saying he doesn't take much issue, he's pretty happy with it. and tom price, hhs krsecretary, saying something different. there is a fundamental difference between the republicans and the democrats for many years. the republicans don't feel that by and large not everybody need to be insured. and the democrats have been pushing for everyone to be insured. even if the cbo turns out to be accurate or close to accurate that millions of people will opt out or lose insurance, republicans will have to defend why that's

the cbo -- one. things you can always say is whatever the cbo says they are going to be wrong. >> no matter what the cbo says, they are going to be wrong. so the fact that a 64-year-old -- >> that's what it has been in the mast. >> if it comes out that a 64-year-old that makes $26500 under this plan in 2026 would need toay $14600 for their health care, is that something that you stand behind, sir? >> well, if it's a 64-year-old, they might be eligible for medicare. they certainly would be at 65. if they retired at 62, which you can do today -- >> what if they gottan illness and they were 64? >> well, our plan covers preexisting conditions just as the forth act. >> would they be able to pay the $14600 it would cost to get them their health care when they only make $26500 a year? >> well, if we pass our plan or some version of it and it becomes law, they are going to have lots of choices to make instead of a mandated plan that they have to take no matter what. in some cases, they may -- under current l

it is in the cbo score.ead the score. it is in t c score there will be a very sficant increase in costin people that 50 to 65. it is in the cbo score. you got to read the whole thing. 14 million people will not have insurance next year. that is huge across america. and then by 2026. they're talking about 24 million people will not have insurance. so, if you were looking for something that was huge, if you're looking for something that was awesome, well this is awesome for those people, 14 million people in one year will lose insurance. melissa: do you think that the obamacare the way it is right now, would you leave it where it is? what changes would you make? >> well, certainly i would start with on the federal government being able to negotiate for drugs. would i look at the various ways in which the insurance companies operate within states so that the insurance companies, so that your state exchanges operate in such a way as to provide multiple opportunities for insurance. melissa: how would you do that?

let me begin by asking how the cbo models this. time a piece of health care legislation comes up, is the cbo building a new model or building on one that has been in place for a while? >> building on one that has been in place, has evolved and improved over time. when i was in charge of the cbo, we did our first modeling for the clinton health care reform. subsequently, that model has been added to, improved, and nevertheless, it is an extraordinary complex task to model major health-care reform. david: bearing the complexity in mind, we see politicians grabbing onto certain auctions of the report. at thoseistake to look numbers in specific, is it better to look more to medically and with the cbo concluded yesterday? well, health reform has lots of components, elements, lots of metrics. there is how many people are insured. how generous is that insurance? how many plans will come forward for people to choose among? what is the reaction that states will have two new proposals? how will medicaid and medicare change? there is no one t

are you going to trust the cbo? should the american public trust the cbo?ce it comes out i'll do the thing i always try to do in these circumstances, is a lot of research and get a lot of input. i read an article this morning that the results of obamacare were widely dispirit from what the cbo so we want to understand their assumptions. >> the obamacare cbo score was actually the most spot-on in terms of nonpartisan assessments of that health care bill. it was still off, though, as you said. let's talk about what this plan looks like as of now. the republican plan. the kizer family foundation says the new plan would affect older and poorer americans living in high cost health care areas. hopefully we have a full screen. cutting medicaid will not help. it found according to the brookings institution, at least 15 million people will lose access. our team on first read says this promises republicans are making cannot be kept. so, given that, do you think this is a bill that you should be voting yes for? >> well, i believe in the free markets, katy. i think par

director. >> guess who chose the head of cbo. dr. price. guess where this man worked, funded in good part by the koch brothers. and now they are saying what he is saying isn't real. i mean, do facts matter anymore to our colleagues? >> well -- >> all right. i'll let you answer that question. >> so it's even more complicated than that. it's sort of a tradition that if the cbo gives you a bad score, you kind of ignore it but you don't often trash it to the extent that we're seeing right now. beyond that, they are only trashing certain aspects of the cbo study. for instance, paul ryan is out today. the cbo study confirms what we wanted, it reduces the deficit, scales back the medicaid expansion. all of the scores he's highlighting when it comes to his own causes but when it. coulds to people who would lose their insurance and the possibility of premiums skyrocketing. they are cherry-picking little data points. chuck schumer is right, lost in the entire debate is the fact that the guy running the cbo was installed by the health and h

mentioned the call with the cbo. can you tell me the proposal the pft has for health insurance companies. will their profits go up or down under the president's proposal? >> i don't think that's been the focus of the president's proposal. it's not about them. it's about patients. i think what i means for them is they finally get to create more choice and more plans and allow people to choose a plan that fits them. right now they don't have that choice. frankly, more and more markets, companies like anthem, united health, cigna, are pulling out. aetna. because they don't have the choice. because of the government mandate. what we want to do is allow competition and choice to exist so they can offer more options for the american people. >> will those companies make more money under the plan or less? >> i don't know the answer to that. at the end of the day, they're pulling out of market after market, leaving the american people with fewer and fewer choices. last i checked i think many are doing pretty well. but it's th

medicaid is a separate issue in the cbo report.ll leave -- >> you can take 26 million people out of coverage, and guess what? it gets cheaper. you know what you do with that money? you give it to rich people and make them wealthier. that's what they are doing, and to call it anything but that is unfair to the 26 million people who will lose coverage under this plan. >> as i said, i am not arguing one way or the other, but i am stating what is in the cbo report and i think you will continue to make the argument you are making now, and the american people will have to make choices. great to have you with us, and stay warm today. >> take care. >>> a winter blast in washington, d.c., but you just heard it right there from governor malloy in connecticut, he has a spring in his step after the cbo report about health care. and now all of a sudden walking back claims he was wiretapped by president obama. the importance of quotation marks. what does that mean? it's an important question you ask, but one i think with a simple answer. we have

secondly, when you're asking about the validity of the cbo, again, i'll refer you to the cbo itself. the number they issued that would be insured in 2016 was 26 million people. the actual number is 10 -- excuse me, 24 million. the actual number is 10.4. that's not a question of our credibility. it's a question of theirs. >> reporter: can you say affirmatively that whenever the president says something, we can trust it to be real? >> if he's not joking, of course. every time he speaks authoritatively, that he speaks, he's speaking as president of the united states. >> reporter: and that more than 3 million americans voted illegally -- >> and he believes that. >> reporter: -- was he joking? >> what's the strategy, do you think, in discrediting the cbo before the actual numbers come out? >> what he was referencing there with the cbo number on the coverage of the aca being incorrect had a lot to do with the fact that there was that surprise supreme court ruling that said the states could choose whether to expand medicaid coverage to anybody up to 138% of the poverty line or not. a number

is cbo? >> the congressional budget office works for congress to give them information before the congress makes policy decisions. >> in the case of gop bill, about how many people would you anticipate work scoring do they do it like several different ones, how do iwork? >> dozen of people work on this estimate that the cbo reported. that's traditional for such large and complicated pieces of legislation. the amount of government programs, consultations are brought to bare in this sort of estimate. >> is there anything that could happen to skew this. because you're looking into the future? >> yes, estimates are always uncertain and especially uncertainly big pieces of calculati legislation. >> -- when i was director -- eye ball the legislation and pick some number out of their hats that's the plan that congress should use the information and not accept it as necessary future but as a reasonable unbiassed estimate of the future. >> what kind of thing that can happen in the future that could th

mention the cbo. the cbo basically said that the more people, fewer people will have insurance under your bill that had insurance before the aca even went into effect, something like 24 million people will lose their insurance. premiums are going to go up. you have taken away the limitations that we had on the aca in terms of deductibles and co-pays, so deductibles are going to go up. at co-pays are going to go up. cbo is talkinge about and i have not heard any third party nonpartisan group dispute and the cbo. no, that is why the cbo score is important. no one is disputing really essentially other than republicans or conservative think tanks maybe. nobody is disputing what the cbo said in a nonpartisan way. the fact of the matter is people are going to be harmed. i don't want to talk about the ideology. i want to talk about what this actually means, so i will conclude by saying this, i really think it is your obligation to show how this is going to be better than what we have now under the affordable

>> what cbo report?porter: three years ago you said the cbo report confirms obamacare is bad for the economy. >> it was bad for the economy. >> reporter: the question is, is it now phony? >> okay. let's look at the cbo's projection. it said their projection on obamacare was in 2016, it would have 24 million people on it. the actual figure is 10.4 million people. less than half the number of people than it predicted would be insured are on it and it's declining. the only point is to make sure that people understand, if you're looking for a bullseye accurate prediction, the cbo was off by more than half. this is not about what my understanding or my belief of the cbo is. the last time they did this, they were wildly off and the number keeps declining. the question that needs to be asked or the awareness that needs to be brought up, if you're going to look at a number tonight, you need to look at the scope of whether that number is -- it was bad for the economy. you can glean that from the impact that it ha

we have omb, they have cbo. i'm not going to get in the business of telling the house who their scorekeeper should be. >> can you stand here today and say the president will keep his promise of insurance for everybody? >> i think the president's goal is to make insurance available to everybody yes. that's what he intends to do. that is the goal of this, to make sure that every american has the choice and a plan that they can afford and that they have the choice to buy. that's not what they have now. so -- >> sean, thanks very much. i wonder if the white house has a view on the reports that -- from bloomberg that jared kushner's family spend half a billion dollar with a corporation linked to the chinese government or has been linked to the chinese government in the past? >> i'd refer you to the kushner companies to talk about their entity. jared went through extraordinary length to make sure that -- although he's not taking a salary here, that he was an employee ant went through extraordinary lengths to make sure

we have got o and b they have got cbo. i'm not in the business of telling the house who their scorekeeper should be in house. cecilia. >> i want to clarify, can you stand here today and say that the president will keep his promise of insurance for everybody? >> i think the president's goal is to provide -- to make insurance available to everybody, yes. that's what he intends to do. i think that is -- the goal of this is to make sure that every american has the choice and a plan that they can afford and that they have the choice to buy. and that's not what they have now. >> sean, jared kushner's family stands to gain around half a billion dollars from a real estate with a corporation which is linked to the chese government or has been linked to the chinese government in the past. >> i would refer you back to the kushner companies to talk about their companies. jared went to extraordinary lengths as you all know and we provided a lot of documentation on this to make sure that he -- although he is not taking a salary here tha

, put out look at numbers in 10 years cbo said a 64-year-old with income 26500 dollars, will pay 1700 dollars out of pocket under obamacare for health insurance. under your plan the cbo says at a same person will have to pay 14,600 because insurance companies can charge more and tax credit that you are going to offer is smaller than the subsidy that obamacare will offer, so what they are saying this is not freedom is not people voluntarily deciding not to have health insurance it is your plan makes it unaffordable for people. >> so there is three things i would say, number one what they basically say is people, obamacare is not going to last there is no way obamacare could mistook another two or three years let alone 10 years, so they are comparing obamacare plan that is mythical would be the exist in 10 years saying if people are going to buy what obamacare is going to make them buy, then they won't be able to far itted, here is the point we believe, that we do need add assistance to people in older cohotters apples to oranges comparison happening here we are not going to make people

we will have insurance for everybody much less expensive and much better insurance for everybody the cbo report confirms that trump care does not even remotely come close. the president was off by 24 million americans more than the population of my entire state seniors will be crushed with higher premiums and rather than going back to the drawing board to solve those problems republicans are attacking cbo but the director is uh person that was handpicked funded in part by the'' brothers and republicans are attacking the referee because they're losing the game plain and simple we will stay strong and united and fight to stand to nail until the republicans stop the repeal effort for good. the senators have other engagements then be will stay and answer questions. >> president trump promised insurance for everybody but trump care breaks that promise to put millions of people risk to force millions to pay more for less care. on sunday paul ryan would that say how many people would lose their health care coverage with his plan. now we know. the nonpartisan cbo report confirms that millions of

we've got omb, they've got cbo. i'm not going to get in the business of telling the house who their scorekeeper should be in the house. cecilia. >> sean, just quickly, i wanted to circle back on something. you started to answer it, but apologies if you did. i want to clarify, though. can you stand here today and say that the president will keep his promise of insurance for everybody? mr. spicer: i think the president's goal is to provide insurance -- to make insurance available to everybody, yes. that's what he intends to do. i think that is -- the goal of this is to make sure that every american has the choice and a plan that they can afford and that they have the choice to buy. and that's not what they have now. >> sean, thanks very much. i wonder if the white house has a view on reports from bloomberg that jared kushner's family stands to gain around half a billion dollars from a real estate deal with anbang corporation, which is linked to the chinese government, or has been linked to the chinese government in th

>> what cbo report? >> reporter: on the expectation the cbo report is coming out about which you said f you're looking to the cbo for accuracy, you're looking at the wrong place. three years ago the cbo confirms obamacare is bad for the economy. the question -- >> it was bad for the economy. >> reporter: the bottom line -- >> no, no. but -- >> reporter: you said it's not the place to find accuracy. >> let's look at the cbo's projection. it said -- their projection on obamacare in 2016 would have 4 million people on it. the actual figure is 10.4 million people. half the number of people it predicted would be insured re on it. and it's declining. so, the ly point, peter s to make sure people understand, if you're looking to get a bull's-eye accurate prediction as to where it's going, the cbo was off by more than half last time. it's not -- this is not about what my understanding or my belief of the cbo is. the last time they did this they were wildly off and the number keeps declining. the question that ne

cbo, so, the cbo comes out with a fairly catastrophic estimate of how this would hurt 24 million people off health care under this republican plan. of course, now you have sean spicer attacking the cbo they're never right, they're never right. let me remind you and our viewers what president trump said in 2014 about the cbo. here's one of his tweets as i predicted, obama already caught lying on obamacare enrollment numbers by cbo sticking with 6 million enrollments. at that time receiving to take cbo estimates at fashion value. another one, the cbo predicted unemployment will rise to 8.8% this year. this is barack obama's economic recovery. i suppose, you know, white houses in the past have always attacked numbers that they don't find convenient. we know that there is -- there is a pattern here with this president of attacking really any information that's not convenient for him. >> i think the problem here is that the cbo number and the devastating report yesterday for this plan confirmed what a lot of people already thought about the health care plan that was proposed, including many

cbo. stuff they're not capable of doing and estimating the impact of a bill of this size probably isn't the best use of their time. >> joining us, the american action forum president, former cbo director, and doug elmendorf, also a former cbo director. it's good to have you both. good morning. douglas holtz-eiken, that line about not the best use of their time. he later on tweeted the former omb director in me is speechless. are you? >> it's their job. it's not a waste of their time. it's their job to inform the congress of the budgetary consequences of the decisions they're making. so what cbo will do today is deliver that information. >> but is there some limit to bill size or idea size beyond which their capabilities go? >> no. in my time, i have scored bills that are one page long and renamed post offices, that's not very expensive. we did the medicare modernization act. the prescription drug bill. enormous bills. dodd/frank, affordable care act. there's no limit on the kind of activit

cbo found premiums should fall by 2026. the republican bill will lower costs for younger americans and raise costs for older americans. about 20% less for a 21-year-old. the premiums spike for a 64-year-old. the hardest hit is lower income people over 50 years old. those not yet eligible for medicare. tax credits are not as generous as obamacare. a 64-year-old making $26,500 a year would pay $1700 for coverage under obamacare. under the gop plan, the prem would be 14,6$14,600. tax credits don't factor income. if you have only more expensive plans available, subsidies are higher. the same tax credit. the trump administration disagrees with the report. it ignored regulatory exchange and grants to states. the white house says there will be phase two and three. we will lower drug costs and other things that are not factored in. >> you expect a fix? those over 65 voted for trump. in the house and senate, do you expect a fix to take care of the elderly and low income voters? >> i don't know. this is the plan they designed. they d

cbo on the health care bill. "closing bell" starts right now. ♪ ♪ >>> welcome to the "closing bell", everybody. i'll kelly evans at the new york stock exchange. marky mark wahlberg who you're hearing from making a big deal on at&t. more after the bell. >> i'm pill frwill fred frost. intel making a big move into the self driving car space. $15 billion with mobile eye. drop more than 2%. we'll look at what the company needs to do to convince investors that it's a good move. >> intel's weakness, one of the reasons the dow's down 19 points. return of the bank tax. dave camp, he'll join us exclusively coming up to talk about whether his controversial bank tax plan could return to washington as part of tax reform. no good vibrations there. >> president trump meeting with his cabinet as we await the congressional budget office score of the gop. kayla tausche is at the white house. >> will fred, it is the first meeting. the thing about this meeting is that there will be four empty chairs. four positions that have yet to