chernow: uh-oh. host: no. here is her answer to working with you. >> do you expect a broadway musical to be made of this like alexander hamilton? >> [laughter] i think you would have to ask mr. chernow if there is any contract in the works. but i think it would make sure he was in perpetuity on the $50 bill, for one thing. host: so when is the musical going to start? mr. chernow: i don't think grant is going to end up as a broadway musical. he does not move to hip-hop beats. i think would be a very good subject for a feature film. i think with hamilton, aside from lin-manuel miranda's genius, hamilton was young and dashing and handsome and romantic. in a way he was a perfect leading man for a musical. grant's life moves to a very ifferent kind of beat. he was plain and laconic, and the charisma of ulysses s. grant was that he had no charisma. the drama is that he was not ramatic. he is no less fascinating, that -- but he is a much more, no efty than hamilton, but kind of very -- he reminded me more of george w

chernow: that is significant.ou would be kind of thing on one chair -- kind of sitting on one chair and have his legs raised on the other, he would create a writing desk by putting a board across. the reason these stuffed armchairs were so important to grant was because he found it very difficult if not impossible to sleep in a normal, horizontal position. terrible feeling as if he was struggling. it must have almost felt like he was being waterboarded. he would be suddenly gasping for breath. ,e would often sleep sitting up in a vertical position, it would keep the air passage open. it is amazing the amount of suffering he went through, and the last thing that the average person would want to do during that time would be a massive project. to write a long book like this, as any writer would attest, carries a very large weight on your shoulders. he was already carrying the largest weight of all in terms of mortality in worrying about providing financially for his family. it was really an amazing, amazing feat. jus

chernow: he was born in ohio. he grew up in a series of small towns in southwestern ohio, near cincinnati. point pleasant was right on the ohio river. the significance of that was it separated the free state of ohio from the slave running state of kentucky. ohio would freeze over and fugitive slaves would run to freedom. very important in terms of grew up that grant really straddling the world of both the north and south. he came from a fairly well-to-do family. his father was mayor of one of those three towns. his father was really the bane of his life. his father was really pushy and domineering. becauset to west point he wanted to -- no, he did not. his father wanted him to. his father saw west point as a free form of rotational education. >> how did he do at west point? mr. chernow: fairly well. his performance was lackluster. he was 21st in the class of 39. there was already considerable attrition before that. he became famous for two things at the academy. he was probably the best swordsman of his generation

chernow: it is quite a story. went down to city point virginia where grant has his headquarters. , who is showing increasing signs of mental instability, she throws a jealous fit. wifemagines that the young is flirting with her husband. she cannot figure out what is going on. julia grant was there. we all know what happens when you try to intervene in a fight. mary lincoln turns on julia grant. thaturns on her so angrily lincoln thought it was important . julia grant laid down the law to her husband. she said she refused to go to the theater if mary lincoln would be there. they went off to burlington, new jersey. we will never know. >> how to grant managed to win the republican nomination in 1868? hattie showed an aptitude for politics? mr. chernow: not really. it was kind of a great guessing game. no one knew exactly where he stood. in 1868 there was a failed attempt to impeach andrew johnson. he was not convicted. he needed to straddle both wings of the republican party. grant had a funny way of not campaigning

ron chernow: ok. brian lamb: here's ron chernow. (video starts) ron chernow: i know that you are all expecting me to stand up here and start snapping my fingers and breaking into rhymed couplets, but i'm afraid, i'm going to disappoint you. although, i have to say one side of me is dying to do exactly that and i'm going to do it. "how does a bastard, orphan, son of a whore and a scotsman, dropped in the middle of a forgo-" no i'm not going there, lin. i'm not going there. i'm not going there. "in the caribbean by providence, impoverished, in squalor, grow up to be a hero and a scholar?" someone save me. no, i've told kind of like adam, i've had this fantasy about going on the stage and i've told lin that i'd like to go on and just do the opening number. off withd then paul me the hulk afterwards but for some , mysterious reason, lin has decided not to throw on my unique theatrical talents. (video ends) brian lamb: how hard was that to do? ron chernow: i've never seen lin laugh as hard. he and his family were sitting in the table rig

this is where historian ron chernow researched the biography that inspired miranda. >> ron chernow: lin-manuel with a year-long affair with a young woman named maria reynolds. it turned into the nation's first bona fide sex scandal. >> chernow: i think that what makes the whole story so bizarre and unbelievable is that hamilton ended up paying blackmail money to mr. reynolds. and this at a time when hamilton was not just the treasury secretary, but he was effectively, like, the prime minister of washington's government. so he was the most powerful man in the government. >> rose: when he was exposed, hamilton did something no one expected: he confessed everything. >> chernow: he wrote a 95-page pamphlet when even his closest friends thought that a delicately-worded paragraph or two would have done the trick. >> rose: i apologize, i made a mistake. >> chernow: and that would have done it. >> jefferson & madison: ♪ alexander hamilton had a torrid affair ♪ and he wrote about it down right there! ♪ highlights! >> rose: in the show, miranda uses hamilton's own words from what became known as "the re

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chernow's biography of alexander hamilton. brian: ron chernow, when did alexander hamilton first get on your radar? ron: i started writing about it in 1998. it seems rather comical because the reason i chose to do

and just moments from now historian ron chernow is set to hit the stage. a comedian, right. instead of roasting the president and the press corp, though, he'll share his perspective on american politics and history and where we stand as a nation today. although he did promise in a statement it's not going to be dry. all of this happening against the backdrop of another tragedy. this one in san diego, and the investigation is ongoing at this hour into a deadly shooting at a california synagogue on this last day of passover. once again leaving an american community to mourn another senseless act. i want to bring in our panel. joining me now princeton university professor of religion and african studies. former speechwriter for president obama. anita mcbride, former chief of staff to first lady laura bush. the comedian joins us as well who performed at ronald reagan's 1988 white house correspondence dinner. and simone on the red carpet at the dinner for us. i want to start with you because so much has changed to say the least since 1988, and i wonder what you

chernow: i am tempted to say grant. prepublication of the book, that will seem like a big stretch for most people in the audience. but i must say this -- americans, possibly the most single written about timeframe in history is the civil war. but americans are shockingly ignorant of reconstruction and what happened during reconstruction and you cannot understand the civil war without understanding the years of reconstruction. you cannot understand modern american politics without understanding what happened with reconstruction. grant was the figure, the figure, after lincoln died, who really straddled those two worlds -- the civil war and reconstruction. i remember when i started the book. sean willard said -- between abraham lincoln and lyndon johnson, the most important figure in the african-american community was ulysses s. grant. as i have been doing the research, that has been -- that insight has been overwhelmingly vindicated. mr. updegrove: ok. >> it seems like presidential biographies are so much more important

>> chernow: think of duels, charlie, as a violent form of conflict resolution. burr was feeling very, very frustrated. it seemed like at every turn, alexander hamilton was there, you know, blocking his path. >> miranda: he writes in a letter before the duel. he said, "there was no way this could have been avoided. we have been circling each other for a while. it was always going to come to this." >> rose: this was going to happen. >> miranda: this was going to happen. they're fundamentally different men. and they run in concentric circles until they meet. >> tommy kail: and everything around them is moving. >> rose: miranda and his director, tommy kail, staged the intensifying rivalry between the two men. ah! >> miranda: yeah, it's pretty cool, right? >> rose: really cool. the turntable was essential. >> miranda: i imagine death so much it feels more like a memory... >> rose: many historians, including chernow, believe hamilton deliberately fired into the air, throwing away his shot. >> miranda: wait! >> rose: it is a fatal miscalculation. >> miranda: i hear wai

biographer ron chernow and liz murray. coming up right now. >> his name is james and he needs extra help with his reading. >> james? >> yes. >> to everyone making a difference. >> thank you. >> you help us all live better. >> nationwide insurance supports "tavis smiley" with every question and every answer, nationwide insurance is helping to improve financial literacy and remove obstacles to economic empowerment one conversation at a time. nationwide is on your side. >> and by contributions to your pbs station from viewers like you. thank you. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- tavis: ron chernow is an acclaimed author and biographer whose houses include "house of morgan" and biographies of alexander hamilton and john d. rockefeller. his latest is a look at our first president george washington, the book called "washington: a life." it's an honor to have you on this program. >> apleasure. tavis: let me start with the obvious because it's a pretty dense text as the audience can see. so there's

is the show's historical advisor. >> chernow: lin-manuel miranda, i think, was smart enough to know that the best way to dramatize a story was to stick as close to the facts as possible. orphaned, immigrant kid who comes out of nowhere and his achievements were absolutely monumental. >> rose: you say he came out of nowhere. >> chernow: he was born on the island of nevis. he spent his adolescence on st. croix. when he came to north america, he didn't know a soul. >> miranda: we're still playing dominoes on the street. >> rose: it is a story miranda can relate to. his father moved from puerto rico when he was 18. they settled in inwood on the northern tip of manhattan. today, luis miranda is a prominent political consultant. his wife luz is a psychologist. >> luis miranda: luz and i, we have always known that this kid was destined for greatness. >> rose: he's looking down. >> luis miranda: my only concern was always, "is his greatness going to come with money, so he can survive forever?" >> rose: when did you see the musical talent? >> luis miranda: always. >> luz towns-miranda: from

he has some real critiques about the ron chernow book. that is something that does get talked about. i think the ron chernow book does a lot of things well, and other things it does not as well. one of the key things that gets lost in both ron chernow and the play is one of alexander hamilton's most important accomplishments is something that is really not very democratic. when he talks about needing to finance the national debt, what he really wanted to do and what he achieved is a major marker. he got the least evil in the country to buy into the debt. that gets you some stability, because it means that he leads have interest in this country continuing. it is not a man of the people kind of story. using militaryso first to clone the democratic uprising. he was an elitist in a couple of ways. addother thing i wanted to about thinking about the musical historically, and the themes, one of the things i think is interesting that the play does well is it gets into a sense of historical message. my favorite line is when eli sisk i was bringin

chernow's biography of alexander hamilton. brian: ron chernow, when did alexander hamilton first get on your radar? ron: i started writing about it in 1998. it seems rather comical because the reason i chose to do hamiltonnle aside from the fact he was the most extraordinary story among the founding fathers was that he seemed to be fading into obscurity. people were coming to regard him as a second-tier founding father. most americans know him from the $10 bill, but that was about it. it was comical, i felt as if i was lifting him out of the security. -- obscurity. now his name 0 -- is on the marquee of a broadway show. brian: what were you doing at the time? ron: i have finished writing my biography of john rockefeller. i had done a series of books about moguls in the gilded age. i found that when i would go out to give lectures, people would start shouting out, do vanderbilt, do carnegie. i felt like i was getting stereotyped as a biographer of gilded age tykeons and i decided i wanted to switch periods. alexander hamilton w

the first is ron journals chernow's-- ron biography. the first is the biography, which served as a textbook. it served very well, it parcels nicely into short chapters that were easy to assign. whether or not they were red was -- whether or not they were red was another story. the background material was paired with primary source documents which included personal letters to hamilton's wife, federalist papers, and george washington. the third was the music, which i played during class time, asking students to see however think all with interbedded decisions that lin-manuel miranda chose for hamilton and his world. as you might imagine, it was a wonderful experience. i had the good fortune of teaching the class in new york city. meant key sites in hamilton's life, as well as visits from the hamilton production designer. i heard from teachers all over the country planning hamilton courses of their own. now for the fall of 2018, i'm preparing to teach my hamilton elective again, but it is a different world. my inaugural run with the course

rene suddenly pointed to me and said this is ron chernow, he wrote the book. they started screaming as if mick jagger had materialized. i started signing not only playbills but posters and souvenir albums and moke's. -- and mugs. there's even a guy who stuck to $10 bills in my hand and asked me to sign them. [laughter] my first thought was isn't it a federal infraction to sign the currency. how many people bring the book to the show. having the cast members sign the book. i discovered is that once you sign one person's you have to do everybody's. harold: about half of them are entrepreneurs to sell them. it is good you are keeping small business thriving. congratulations are in order. yesterday the edward kennedy prize for the best play adapted from american history was bestowed on hamilton. another great kudos. when you wrote this, and i know you are writing another one, do you think in terms of adaptations? ron: there's some people who write biographies of with one eye on a possible dramatization. after the book came out in 2004, it was optioned three times