. >> please lower your -- kenneth john chesbrough. how do you plead ticket count 15, the conspiracy to commit -- an indictment number 23 se one night a 937. >> guilty. >> that's his former campaign lead advisor now becoming the second lawyer to wanna plead gault, iain agreed to testify in the georgia election conspiracy case. we have several reporters in place for you, from israel to delaware, in washington, covering all these new developments. we're going to begin in tel aviv, with nbc's jay gray. jay, welcome. so, it's my understanding that the trucks from egypt have made it into the rafah crossing, but are then stopped, while supplies from those trucks gets loaded on to palestinian tracks, to move into gaza. first of all, can you confirm that is the process, and whether or not that aid is now reaching the gazans that need it. >> alex, we know that's the process, those trucks roll in, and then they are transferred onto other trucks. what we don't know is, ultimately, the en route. we are not allowed into gaza, no news agency is, so

chesbrough is trying to protect donald trump, or anyone else.ally, do not believe the state will call him to testify on their behalf. >> really? i, mean how would chesbrough get a deal without getting anyone, or anything, up? >> yes,, alex that's a good. point you and i both know, fani willis didn't just wake up yesterday and become the district attorney of fulton county, of georgia. there was a recorded profit that was given by kind of chesbrough friday morning. while the jurors are filling out the written questionnaires, the value of that offer had to be evaluated by the d.a.'s. here's the next thing to think about, alex. kenneth jonesboro was not operating in a vacuum. it's not like the guy himself woke up and said, you know, i'm going to drop a memorandum to have an election ski deployed in more than seven states. he did it at the direction, because that the client. the truck lying to donald trump, and the trump campaign. so whether or not kevin chesbrough and sub say that i am only implicating myself, think about building blocks for this co

chesbrough did not plead guilty to ricotta. mr.y to conspiracy to commit a filing of false documents. while mr. chesebro was ready for trial, we were ready for trial, this was the best outcome. he is now home with his family and he can put this behind him. >> yes, but scott, i have to push back your client pled to a felony. he's the first want to have to plea to a felony thoughts far. he did not just plea to -- let's dig deeper. he pled guilty, no contest. he said i'm guilty of count 15 of the indictment which implicates donald trump, rudy giuliani, john eastman and a conspiracy to file a fake elector certificate knowing that that was not a truce. so your client may have gotten a probationary deal, but at this stage he has admitted that the big lie was a lie and that everything he was doing was not right. >> yes, i'd like to push back, respectfully, on you katie. first of all, mr. chesebro never believed in the big lie. if you ask him, who won the 2020 presidential election? he says joe biden. you referred to -- i know you are quot

as part of the deal chesbrough agreed to 100 hours of community service, 5000 dollar fine, and here'stinue to provide documents, and most concerningly if your name is donald trump, to testify in any further proceedings against his codefendants. this deal came a day after former trump attorney sydney powell, also reach a plea deal with in the case. >> how do you plead to the six counts of conspiracy to commit in intentional interference? >> guilty. >> both chesbrough and power e th second and third of the 19 people indicted in fulton county to strike deal with the d's office. all three have agreed to testify truthfully in the case. but donald trump's legal woes did not end in georgia. the judge presiding over's civil fraud case in new york is threatening to send the twice impeached former president to prison if he continues to violate a gag order. judge arthur ender on, just find trump $5, 000, for posting untrue and disparaging post of the clerk on social media. we'll discuss all this after a quick break with two legal minds,. two legal minds, from chrome to duckduckgo. duckduckgo is

chesbrough is trying to protect donald trump, or anyone else.ve the state will call him to testify on their behalf. >> chris, your thoughts? >> well, you know, he knows, and the prosecutor knows which has pros going to stand. i don't put a whole lot of faith in what might be signaling to donald trump, but what is clear is that the prosecutors now have a lawyer, who has admitted under oath that he committed crimes in furtherance of conspiracy, in which they also allege donald trump us apart. that, in and of itself. it is pretty powerful. and if chesbrough gets on the stand, the first thing he's going to have to admit is that he stood in the georgia courtroom, and pled guilty to a felony as a lawyer, with a submission of false electors slates. and the next question is, did donald trump know that that is what you were up to? that is compelling testimony. he may not break the case wide open, and as we know, donald trump is alleged to have engaged in a number of elements of this conspiracy. but those facts alone are pretty damning, and i think that w

again your reaction to chesbrough's plea deal?mean the whole events jonathan, it shows us just how good fani willis's. but the whole country, she was built to us as a master of rico, a master of conspiracy law. she is really showing it here with these two please. she's basically saying, look i have my eyes on the bigger prize, it is the conviction of the man who orchestrated all of this. not just the people who worked for him. and you know, to me what is most significant about both of these deals is that they are jailed deals. no jail deal. one sydney powell pled guilty to mr. meters. she has brought to a felony, neither of them are serving to. their only reason you would ever agree to that is the prosecutor, as if they're providing evidence against higher ups. so here, i suspect this is incredibly bad news for donald trump. not news jonathan, he can, spin by saying oh this is a bunch of left wing radicals, or whatever. these are his handpicked monica kraken whack job lawyers. >>, yes as kimberly atkins said on twitter or on threa

chesbrough.or scheme and that is so core to what happened on january 6th and the lead up to january. six that's why i think his guilty plea is sort of more central and potentially more important with respect to proving donald trump's criminal liability. >> neil, trump's legal team is obviously downplaying this. these two had a lot of access. andrew referenced. it you are familiar with their stories, where they were at different times. if you are the prosecutor what is most valuable to them. what do they want most from these two please? >> yes, first of all i think it's hard to distinguish between who is more important. it's asking about whether the height or width of a square is more relevant both are enormously significance and both are trump attorneys they're not attorneys like andrew me these are like maga trump attorneys who are saying yes i did it and i'm willing to enter into a deal over this and both of them will have testimony that is relevant to trump. sydney powell directly because she

in the 11th hour this past week could die hard allies sydney powell and cannot chesbrough took plea dealsesult in testimony against their former boss donald trump pleaded guilty to six misdemeanor accounts and chesbrough for his part pleaded guilty to one felony count of conspiracy to commit filing false documents. don't forget, bail bondsman scott pile had struck an agreement after pleading guilty to the conspiracy just last month. you have to wonder what about the likes of rudy giuliani the former trump legal advisor john eastman. former justice official jeffrey clark what are they thinking at this critical moment in this process. atlantic, the question is now whher these pleas have the devolving domino scenario that pross hope for in a big racketeering case like this. in w lowevel defendant decides to cut their losses and ecors in convicting the biggest names. three down6 to go. nobody wants to be the last domino to fall. tara setmayer is back with me. joining us back for this discussion. legal affairs columnist for politico. it's great to have you both with us i will start with you ar

chesbrough worked more closely with eastman. here, when you combine on the giuliani front, sydney powell, ken chesbrough, and now perhaps his closest aide, jenna ellis who was so persuasive and court today, whether she meant it or not, her remorse, her tears, even the judge complemented her, saying he seldom heard from a defendant that trifecta is very dangerous for giuliani. and then, what fani willis and jack smith flipping giuliani, get to trump. so, meadows and alyssa like, big development and trump's federal and state liability, today. >> call me a skeptic, but i watched her tearful, remorseful apology and i think there was a lot of commentary about either a smirk or something before she actually stood up. people wondered about that. i don't put a lot of weight into once nerves and the takes that come into a courthouse, of course. but walk down memory lane a bit to the epiphany and how to judge once upon a funny. here is jenna ellis, and how many instances she had to have the epiphany, sooner. watch this. >> this is an elit

because he's implicated in the same plot that chesbrough is. >> he is, if you look at the indictmentser president, mr. giuliani, mr. eastman are all listed in this count, this is count 15 of the original indictment. if you notice with miss powell, they created a separate accusation to present misdemeanors. this is a felony, it's in the original document. it has several people named in the count as coconspirators. >> the fact that when you hear, when i heard chesebro was pleading, out my thoughts immediately turned to giuliani, eastman, and trump. which is maybe why outside the court today chesbrough's lawyers said he didn't snitch against anyone, he went in there, the expected responsibility. almost telegraphing to potential other defendants, i didn't snitch. and yet, he's going to be asked to snitch, isn't he? >> well, one of the conditions of this play is that he made an offer to the district attorney, and he has to testify against the other codefendants. we will see that what testimony is. certainly, we've seen d.a. willis, she's very smart, and she's very strategic. i cannot imagi

chesbrough is trying to protect donald trump or anyone else. i personally do not believe the state will call him to testify on their behalf. >> we are going to begin with the breaking news from israel, nbc's josh lederman is joining us from ashdod. so josh, talk about how the israeli military strategy has changed in light of the hostage release and aid. is there a palpable difference now? >> well alex, that is been the big question over the last 24 hours is whether these two major developments, the release of those two u.s. hostages and the potential for more hostages to be released and the resumption of aid crossing the border finally into egypt intog. whether that would change israel's calculus about whether to move in a imminent fashion towards that ground corruption that israel has been promising frankly now for more than a week. today we heard from the israeli military saying that they had made recent decisions to actually expand the operations that they have underway, which so far has been mostly sent with airstrikes. and the israeli mili

chesbrough is one of the architects of the fake electors plot, claiming that mike pence could rejectng the certification process on january the 6th. chesbrough's guilty plea came just one day after former trump attorney, sydney powell, also pleaded guilty. she pleaded guilty to six misdemeanor counts of conspiracy to commit election interference. according to the january 6th committee, paul was part of a now infamous december 2020 oval office meeting where she suggested that donald trump could use the u.s. military to seize voting machines across the country. of course, powell threatened to then release the kraken on voter fraud, only to find a bunch of frivolous lawsuits that did absolutely nothing to change the outcome of the election. joining me now is jessica levinson, msnbc columnist and loyola law school professor, matthew dowd is back with us. jessica, i will start with you. let me play for you what sydney powell told the judge when she pleaded guilty. take a listen. >> are you pleading guilty today because you agree that there is a sufficient factual basis? >> i did. >> two w

. >> chesbrough took a similar deal to powell to get out of jail time. lawyer, as i often say, but it seems like for trying to overturn an election and you got caught, enough serves on probation, pay some fees, rain apology, seems like a pretty good deal. the question now is, can often return, what are, they what they see? who better to ask than neil caught cnn joe weisman, and in-house law form who joins me after a very quick break. they are back. they are back. -unentered sick time? -unnecessary! -go! -unnecessary! -go! -unnecessary! -when you can take this phone, you'll be ready. -make the unnecessary, unnecessary. let your employees do their own payroll. this is american infrastructure, a prime target for cyberattacks. but the same ai-powered security that protects all of google also defends these services for everyone who lives here. ♪ just between us, you know what's better than mopping? anything! ugh. well, i switched to swiffer wetjet, and it's awesome. it's an all-in-one, that absorbs dirt and grime deep inside. and it helps prevent streaks and

case and chesbrough and pal or two of those building blocks.aven't played out to the r.i.c.o. charge, it's still the case that they have knowledge of penalties other aspects of the alleged conspiracy that, you know, trump has been indicted for. so it's certainly something that's not good news for him. >> so, catherine, i'm thinking about special counsel jack smith and washington d.c.. sidney powell and chesebro, they are believed to be unindicted coconspirators and the federal election case. could things have been different if jack smith would have pulled up fani willis, as i'm going to call it, and charged more individuals? it seems the information that d.a. willis and her team are being able to glean from this plea agreement is going to just bolster the case against former president trump and folks like rudy giuliani. >> i think the reason why the january 6th case is scheduled to trial on march 4th is because only one defendant was indicted, and that donald trump. so i think it was a practical decision on behalf of the special counsel for tha

these two had sought -- sydney powell, and kenny chesbrough, an early trial. trial. sydney powell, pleading out, and now we are left with kenneth chesebro. what does it mean that he has also pled? >> >> amy, we are having an audio issue with you, we will check it out, and we will come back to you in just a moment. barbara, let me put that question to you, what is the overall significance of this? >> it is incredibly significant for a number of reasons. one, fani willis doesn't have to go to trial next week. she has secured a conviction, and she has removed any risk of an acquittal by a jury. but, also, she avoids having to show her hand with a preview trial, from before the other defendants go to trial. that is big. of course, the most significant reason, is that this is such a win for fani willis, is to have the testimony, and cooperation, of kenneth chesebro. he, more than any of these other defendants, is such a key to all of this, because he was the architect of the fake elector scheme. in addition to admitting to committing a crime, by conspiring to do it

of the 2020 election they were peddled to georgia lawmakers former trump campaign or is kind of chesbrough and sidney powell pleaded guilty. >> michael is a political analyst and president of the global policy institute at loyola marymount and joins me now from los angeles good to have you with us. >> thank you. >> so mark meadows former chief of staff, when you get immunity thanks to an agreement to testify, in the investigation into the insurrection. should donald trump be worried? >> well it has been a bad few days for donald trump, a number of his supporters who work for him are talking to, prosecutors making plea deals, and they traditional strategy which is on the outside, and it is starting to work. they got a big fish today and that is mark meadows. the president's chief of staff, he knows where all their bodies are buried. he has a lot that he could offer. so i would guess he got a very good deal. so the dominoes are starting to fall, donald trump has to be concerned right now. >> i have to ask you, though just how trustworthy is mark meadows, especially given what he has reported

chesbrough maybe not, because he doesn't want to be tried with her, but is this for donald trump? because it is now the second person to have pled guilty, not in the case may be out of d.c., as you mentioned, but is this significant to him? >> it is. it's somebody that is described as his inner circle entering a guilty plea in charges he's connected with. we just don't know the detail that she can give about's particular involvement, but she's just a piece of the puzzle. she is not necessarily the silver bullet of the case, but i think she might give some context to sort of the involvement going on. do you know, i really thought the plea itself was a little bit anticlimactic. it is a misdemeanor, she is pleading just six different misdemeanors, so it sounds like a six different sentences, but it's not, it's 12 months that run after each other. she finishes her sentence, she has no record, if he can still vote into all of those things. so to put all the drama of bringing people in and parading them in to be processed and arrested and talk about the largest election case -- it was a

chesbrough is trying to protect donald trump or anyone else.hat the state will call him to testify on their behalf. >> joyce? what is your reaction to this? >> so, sure. mr. chesebro, i don't believe there is public reporting that suggests he was ever in a room with donald trump. his role was that he was the architect of the fake electors planned. the harvard educated lawyer who understood that the plan wasn't legal, was unlikely to be authorized by the supreme court, but who, in his written communication, suggested that they could create this sort of chaos that would encourage the courts to not take the sort of action that would lead to certification of biden's vote. you know, it's this a defense lawyer trying to protect his client for as long as possible, from the former presidents vindictive raf on social media? where did they believe that chesebro's testimony relates to other people, not to trump? the reality is that this is the sort of conversation that you see from defendants and their lawyers a lot of the time, after they conclude fleet

powell took the plea deal one day before her speedy trial was set to start with attorney kenneth c chesbroughtrict attorney is doing is making a lot of these plea deals. we will see more than what we have seen so far. she is trying to get this case boiled down to something that's smaller, more manageable for the courts because her true targets in this case obviously are donald trump and probably rudy giuliani. >> and the case here in atlanta is one of four ongoing criminal indictments against former president donald trump. >> bret: we will continue to follow it. you were next the panel on the war? israel. the president's upcoming speech and jordan's gamble in the house speaker effort. fox 5 in new york with new allegations against suspected gilgo beach serial killer rex herman. a lawyer for alleged victim's family says heuermann is a serial user of sex workers who attended so-called swinger parties. he said heuermann had firsthand run-ins with two women whose bodies were found under similar circumstances to three others he is accused of murdering. fox 35 in orlando with an agreement on the sa

from the wall street journal, something you said about chest burrow's plea deal, saying this -- chesbrough'st admission that this so-called alternate elector scheme was, in fact, a crime. talk more about this, if you will. >> well, yes. chesebro pled guilty to a felony, one of the counts of the indictment here in fulton county. the specific count that he pled guilty to says that he conspired with donald trump, rudy giuliani, john eastman, and several other people to knowingly file a false statement under the election count act. that fall statement was at the 16 people who signed those so-called alternate elector certificates were, in fact, the letters from the state of georgia when they were not. all along, chesebro and others, including the former president, have claimed that, we call them fake elector certificates, that they were legitimate in some way or another, that they were being prepared if trump won a lawsuit or something like that. his attorneys have made that argument over and over again >> i want to talk about fani willis as well. i think a lot of people saw this coming. she is c

meanwhile, in georgia, two of trump's allies, lawyer sydney powell, and can chesbrough, chuck plea dealsing the former president's defense not only in that case, but in the federal special counsel investigation. now, trump has brushed off his legal entanglements for quite a while now. but now, he seems to be suffering some serious setbacks. and we are even seeing him show up in court rooms voluntarily. is trump starting to feel the heat, michael? i -- >> he is not. i think donald trump's worldview as a trust fund baby from new york city is the rules don't apply to him. if you look at his life over the past 40 years or so, that's exactly how he has comported himself. this is just an extension of that behavior. i don't think there's ultimately affects him in a voting capacity, and in a legal capacity, i think we will see. at a state level, but i don't really think this will affect him and his behavior. >> michael, i want to get your take on some data cited by politico. on democratic research firm found 88% of black voters in 2022 elections voted for the democratic -- the democrat in their

this case that's going to trial at the end of the month will only involve two defendants, kenneth chesbroughidney powell. the government still has to prove the entire conspiracy to engage in rico and the other charges that are made records to these defendants. so we will see, this will really be fani willis teeing up the same case that she'll bring against donald trump. she will have to prove that agreement was made among defendants to achieve that rico outcomes that would engage in this sort of effort to interfere with the election on multiple fronts. we will learn an enormous amount about the evidence that prosecutors in fulton county have against donald trump in the course of this case against his two codefendants. >> carol, also reporting georgia prosecutors are floating plea deals to some of trump's coants. how could these deals change things here? >> just to be -- just as the accountant in new york is deciding hit rather be a witness that a defendant, there will be people in georgia who are charged in a very, very broad conspiracy. theyare going to say to themselves, have private conve

one of the things noted here is that chesbrough and sidney powell, each pleaded last meek, it's unclear the issues flagged by andrew weissmann and the program last week, it's unclear how full that cooperation is. pal seemed to have some kind of more traditional cooperation agreement. with prosecutors, i want to play what rudy giuliani said back in august at the suggestion that is number two, his former lieutenant general janet ellis might flip. he did not react, take a listen. >> i hope that is not the case. >> she was my number two. she was excellent, and she was firmly convinced of the election, she was firmly convinced that the election was over. it was more zealous about the fact that it was a stolen election dan jenna ellis. i think anybody on that team with testify to that, so i would find it hard to believe that she did that. he could have gotten intimidated. >> -- i don't know what that is saying, but she does not want her to flip. it seems to me like if you talk to trump's lawyers, jenna ellis flipping puts squarely rudy giuliani in the sights. >> surely does, but they're also

out of georgia, as two former attorneys to then former president trump, sydney powell, kenneth chesbroughlly struck plea deals withprosecutors. they will avoid jail time, they must cooperate with the prosecution's case against former president donald trump and his remaining codefendants. joining me now is nbc news senior national political reporter, jonathan allen to talk more about this. jonathan, thank you for joining us on this. appreciate. it seems like a bit of a new ball game here. what do you make of these guilty pleas? and how they change the calculus for team trump, his defense, in georgia. >> we were very much expecting sydney powell in canada chesebro to stand trial. there was an earlier plea deal rejected by chesebro. there's a surprise here in the last few days. whereu've seen sydney powell and chesebro both agree to these plea deals. obviously, we don't know exactly what they're going to say. very involved in the presidents efforts overturn the 2020 election. they've now pleaded, or are pleading, guilty to these crimes. looking at probation, the expectation here is that they

there's still -- i'm sure he will still persist in his claims of innocence, but to have chesbrough and alice and powell all agree to testify against him is pretty powerful. especially in light of his notion that he's going to use as a defense the reliance of advice of counsel. and so now that you have three lawyers saying that this was all just a pack of lies, that there was no good faith, he has to be able to show that his reliance on lawyers was reasonable and in good faith. if the lawyers themselves can testify that that wasn't the case, it's going to be very difficult for him to convince a jury that it was. i don't give it a five, only because there's still a couple of other lawyers out there. john eastman and rudy giuliani, who are still not pleading guilty. although these three guilty pleas could possibly induce those two to plead guilty, because chaz perot and janet -- are going to provide powerful evidence -- and that's often the way it works. when looking away, you have to get one link before you get the next. and i think eastman and giuliani are the next links in the chain be

chesbrough is a very interesting possibility here.g the supreme court would never approve, but there might be strategic political reasons for deploying the fake elector scheme. who all did he have conversations with? likely many of the other lawyers who are good at defendants in this case. if he can testify against the likes of rudy giuliani, or jenna ellis, john eastman, that could be very valuable. and putting pressure on them to flip at the -- so these are important developments in the fulton county case. >> there's been three pleas so far in fulton county. the defense attorney, those three defendants, all making hay about the fact that none of their clients blood to the rico counts and this case. including yesterday when -- was on my show. what are your thoughts about the fact that they did not plea to a r.i.c.o. count, but they are still all cooperating witnesses? >> i wouldn't expect them to plead guilty to the r.i.c.o. count. the whole point for these early cooperators is that they get very beneficial plea deals. of course the

as part of their deals, powell, chesbrough, and a list of all promise not to testify in future trialsinst their codefendants and that means trouble for, yes, donald trump, the alleged ringmaster of this entire election scheme circus. to witnesses who actually plotted and carried out key aspects of the ex presidents legal strategies -- -- from another defendant last month, this guy, and a number of cooperators might continue to rise, the district attorney, fani willis, talked now with six more codefendants about possible plea deals. they include former coffee county elections supervisor, and former trump campaign official meg roman, and robert shealy. well it's had her fair share of skeptics when they brought the racketeering case against the wall you've got to say over the last few days, the racketeering statute in the skillful handling it has been nothing but remarkable. certainly unmistakable, and with trump and 14 of his codefendants left it seems the question is no longer a matter of if someone else will flip, but who. and how soon? here to discuss it and more, david henderson, ci

which is different than chesbrough or powell, who pleaded just days before her. to was aiding and abetting false statements made by rudy giuliani. so for rudy giuliani, this is really a very bad development. so he is facing continued civil liability in connection with his d.c. case against him. he is facing significant criminal liability, and he certainly is a former doj official, knows exactly what is coming, and also his off ramp, if he were to cooperate. so i think that is the thing that i'm sort of very much focused on, the honestly the mark meadows piece, if the reporting is true, is a huge development with respect to donald trump's liability. >> neil, real quick, who do you think is the next to fold here? >> i agree with andrew, i think it's rudy giuliani is a target. the thing to watch and the next week is not someone who's gonna fold, but ivanka trump testifying against her husband, against, excuse me, against her father, compelled by the court, and basically it's the old legal adagio. those families who commit crime together, testify together. >> all thi

. >> we also learned today that can chesbrough rejected a plea deal. wrote in an msn the -- that there's likely only a few other plea deals to go around. does sydney powell feel motivate to some of these other defendants to get on board and cut a deal while they still can? >> right, i think it does. this is an interesting situation because the charges are so wide ranging. and prosecutors will look for key witnesses on each of the points that are important to them. they will also look for cooperating testimony, there likely be many more pleas in this case. but the sorts of deals, no felony charges, no prison time will go to the people who have the most to offer. chance burrows involved in a different part of this conspiracy. he's the author of the memos that provide the path for failing to certify the election on january six. fortunately, his plan fills. but he is involved with trump again in a very close way. and, importantly this week, judge -- ruled that all of these memos could come into evidence that all the chesebro claims there were attorney clie

this isn't the first plea deal chesbrough was offered.et of terms last week. i wonder what that signals to you about what prosecutors thought they had that they were willing to try twice? >> sometimes, alicia, it isn't so much the terms change but the timing does. and so as that clock ticks down and as the jury is showing up to the building to start filling out those jury questionnaires, sometimes the defendant decides, okay, this is the end of the, line i need to make a decision now. so it's hard to know if there was a different deal, or suddenly the deal look better to chesebro as the potential jurors were walking in the door. >> trump has publicly claimed his election indifference was the result of bad legal advice. how could have been his attorneys testify, then, undermined the defense? >> i think this is going to be a very helpful thing to have kenneth chesebro on the government side here. and don't forget, alicia, one really key finding that happened earlier in the week, that may have also prompted kenneth chesebro to plead guilty,

and we've heard from chesbrough's attorneys in the past that that was part of the trilogy.nted him at the table by himself, and that's exactly what's going to happen. >> we should say. this the reporting on the projecd plea deal, ten medina, the scuttled plea deal would have seen him plead guilty to a le felony racketeering charge, agreed to testify against the other codefendants in the case, including former president donald trump, and pay atteion dollar fine and addition to writing a tt of apology. and, heard chasebrickwood have been sentenced to three years of probation and eligible to expand his record when it was completed, assuming he did not pilot in terms of probation. that seems to be a fairly good deal if i'm sitting in his shoes. but he is not -- what you expect to see from jury selection in this trial? >> i think it's time for his lawyers to put up or shut up. this is what he's -- it tells me he is fully committed to taking this all the way. he's going to have his chance. i think what i'm looking for in that jury selection, i, mean he's obviously going to be loo

don't really have all of that many options, so far what you are seeing from sydney powell, from chesbroughn ellis, from others, is taking the no jail plea route. should mr. trump be worried about it? obviously. ellis might be able to give you giuliani, giuliani might give you others, although he probably would be the worst witness ever in the history of the planet, but there will be other dominoes to fall as people -- and try to narrow their own exposure. >> and their own exposure maybe for a good reason and the reason is that they are lying. everybody knew that they were lying all along, even their supporters knew they were lying. they continued to lie, even the 63 federal courts said they were lying. even as donald trump called them trump supreme court, even as the supreme court said they were lying, that there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud, that there is no evidence of voter fraud that would overturn the election, even trump's most loyal supreme court justices, clarence thomas and samuel alito wrote a concurrence in a pennsylvania case saying we understand there are not enoug