nation's intel chiefs testified at the white house's worldwide threats hearing where fbi director chris wray, one of the two officials who showed up, did not minutes his words about the foreign threat to the 2020 election. >> we've seen very active, very active efforts by the russians to influence our election in

influence the election that testimony came in a house hearing on threats to the country featuring wray and chris in addition to foreign threats, lawmakers at this hearing also focused their questions on the rise of radical political ideologies here at home. on that topic, wray's testimony undercut a key talking point from republicans as they try to paint antifa as an organized group of radicals being powered by super secret democrats. >> we look at antifa as more of an ideology or a movement than an organization. to be clear, we do have quite a number of properly predicated domestic terrorism investigations into violent anarchist extremists any number of whom self-identify with the antifa movement and that's part of this broader group of domestic violent extremists i'm talking about it's just one part of it we also have the racially motivated, the militia types and others >> joining me is nbc news capitol hill correspondent kasie hunt i want to focus on what chris wray said about russia it's september 17th. september 17th in 2016, the federal government knew the same thing. we did not get that k

it's not like chris wray son his own here making it up. it's not like he's saying something we have not heard from formal officials who have been in positions like his and seen this before and before who also know the facts. >> it would be impossible at scale to alter mail-in ballots. you would have to have millions of people grabbing ballots out of mailboxes and changes them. >> there's no anecdotal or historical evidence that suggests that the kind of potential massive fraud or massive abuse has occurred or will occur in the future. >> and by the way, both worked for republican president george w. bush, another powerful republican, a man who spent his entire career trying to give his party the advantage in elections has also spoken out on this. here's what he told me. >> i've been part of republican election day operations for the last four decades looking for that very fraud. so far there has been a few smatterings of fraud, but no widespread fraud. >> trump does not want to hear that, so he's going to torch anybody who contradicts him.

more importantly, you raised the question of chris i wray.e four years from that moment and we're just getting this information now? the answer is chris wray's fbi has slow-walked every piece of evidence of wrongdoing or a mistake that the fb irk made, and it's --fbi made, and it's a shame to the electorate that we're entering the 2020 election, and chris wray hasn't let us seen fully what happened in the 2016 election are. lou: and another way of looking at this regrettably is that it's four years later and the obama administration still has extraordinary influence if not outright power over the permanent bureaucracy, the so-called deep state and is obviously still making use of that influence and power. >> absolutely right, lou. you hit it on the head. the people that are embedded in these agencies have had a long allegiance to the obama/biden/clinton years, and they've been able to use that power. our founding fathers thought it was the ability that americans could fine out what their government's doing. that is no longer the case. you saw

another story we're following closely, the white house is disputing what the fbi director chris wrayresident trump and other members of his administration, not committing to a peaceful transfer to power or doing so only as long as it's decided, they seem to say, by november 3rd, and if they deem it to be free and fair. >> right. if they deem it to be free and fair, right? that's an important point, jim. let's bring in our manu raju and our john harwood. good morning to you both, john. let's begin with you. what are the standards for a free and fair election. because it's not just what one person feels about how the election has gone. and also talk to us about how the open seat on the supreme court factors into all of this. >> well, the standard for a free election and fair election in this country is the kind of election that we've had for a long we sometimes forget in all of this partisan wrangling is that some of the most dedicated, the least partisan, the most effective public servants we have are local elections officials who are dedicated to a fair and accurate count. system's n

. >>> meanwhile, president trump is questioning the fbi director after chris wray warned about russian interference in the election outside experts agree russia is at it again. details coming up. is is "andrea mitchell reports" on msnbc. >> tech: at safelite, we're here for you with safe, convenient service. >> tech: we'll come right to you. ♪ upbeat music >> tech: you'll get a text when we're on our way. >> tech: before we arrive, just leave your keys on the dash. we'll replace your windshield with safe, no-contact service. ♪ upbeat music >> tech: and that's service you can trust when you need it the most. ♪ upbeat music >> tech: schedule at safelite.com. ♪ upbeat music >> singers: ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪ a lot goes through your mind. with fidelity wealth management, your dedicated adviser can give you straightforward advice and tailored recommendations. that's the clarity you get with fidelity wealth management. ...to soccer practices... ...and new adventures. you hope the more you give the less they'll miss. but even if your teen was vaccinated against meningitis in t

fbi director chris wray has said it twice in the last week. in the last week. president trump say about russia getting involved to sow chaos, help president trump? trump is basically saying nothing to see here, move forward. so biden has to focus on so many of these issues while the president is so good at distracting us into every different direction. >> i will say it again, 39 days until the election. we're living in truly crazy times. stephanie ruhle, thank you very much for joining us. >> you might say it's unbelievable. >> you might say it's unbelievable. unbelievable, too. stephanie's full interview with the former vice president, joe biden, will air as part of the latitude national business conference. north korea will have full coverage tomorrow on weekends with alex witt at 12:00 p.m. eastern. do not miss that. i'm sorry, latitude. moving on. it was a day of remembrances in washington for justice ruth bader ginsburg. breaking barriers in her life and in her passing. justice ginsburg became the first woman and the first person of jewish faith to lie in

meanwhile, the white house has gone on the attack against fbi director chris wray for not toeing the line on ballots and voter fraud. here is what wray told a senate committee yesterday. >> we have not seen historically any kind of coordinated national voter fraud effort in a major election, whether it's by mail or otherwise. >> this morning donald trump's chief of staff laced into wray. >> with all due respect to director wray, he has a hard time finding emails in his own fbi, let alone figuring out whether there's any kind of voter fraud. >> today joe biden had a lot to say about donald trump's attacks on mail-in ballots and his refusal to commit to an orderly transition when he spoke with our nbc news colleague stephanie ruhle. >> twice now president trump has refused to agree to a peaceful transfer of power if he loses. what are you going to do if you win and he just won't leave? >> this is a typical trump distraction. it's trying to make everybody wonder whether or not the election will be legit and whether or not absentee ballots matter. the whole notion of him talking about th

the president's taking issue with two warnings that chris wray delivered in his testimony before congressthe issue of russia, right now, actively interfering in our election. ken delany joins me to break it down what is the back and forth all about and give us the reality check. >> to put it bluntly, president trump does not appreciate that fbi director christopher wray continues to plainly state the facts about two issues that really stick in president trump's crawl. that is foreign election interference and the source of protester violence let's take a listen to what christopher wray told congress about russian election interference. >> the intelligence community's consensus is that russia continues to try to influence our elections, to primarily to denigrate vice president biden and what the russians see as kind of an anti-russian establishment. >> president trump tweeted in response to that, i'm paraphrasing here, chris, what about china, you're not mentioning their massive interference campaign. the reality is, hallie, intelligence officials tell me and wray made it very clear, russi

that was chris wray's leadership what's the status there? i mean look that's up to the president of the united states who we wants as director of the fbi but i will tell you this. chris wray testified in front of our committee the judiciary committee and to us everything was fine with the fisa process. a few weeks later michael horowitz issues a report and says the 29 fisa cases he looked at in a random sample case he looked at there were major problems with every single one. so, that is a concern to me, when you think about the history of what took place when they used the fisa court to get the warrant to spy on the trump campaign and then what may have happened since then with these 29 other cases, so i have real concerns there. chris wray really hasn't helped us get information it was rick grenell and others who made these testimonies and the transcripts for us to see , where we learned there was never a proper predicate for launching the whole darn thing when they did back in 2016. maria: all right, we got to jump quick second, and final

that was chris wray's leadership what's the status there? >> well i mean look that's up to the president of the united states who we wants as director of the fbi but i will tell you this. chris wray testified in front of our committee the judiciary committee and to us everything was fine with the fisa process. a few weeks later michael horowitz issues a report and says the 29 fisa cases he looked at in a random sample case he looked at there were major problems with every single one. so, that is a concern to me, when you think about the history of what took place when they used the fisa court to get the warrant to spy on the trump campaign and then what may have happened since then with these 29 other cases, so i have real concerns there. chris wray really hasn't helped us get information it was rick grenell and others who made these testimonies and the transcripts for us to see , where we learned there was never a proper predicate for launching the whole darn thing when they did back in 2016. maria: all right, we got to jump quick second, a

chris wray, dr.obert redfield, they're the type of administrations that overlap and neither have seemed to buck tl way that clearly a political appointee would have. >> that's right. and another thing from recent comments is those are things made under oath in congressional testimony, so you have people who are not political, who are testifying under oath to congress, being contradicted by a president who is known for lying, who is known for mistruths, who is known for misstating the reality as he wishes it were, not as it is so when you have him come out against christopher wray and the tweet in which he was doing a lot of work, not this undermining wray but calling into question the election results if he doesn't like what they are and going after dr. redfield and saying his cdc director made a mistake under oath, i think most people who have been following this president are going to be inclined to believe these career officials testifying under oath who do not have a record of lice and mistruths.

chris wray is a frequent target of criticism for president trump for a number of issues but this timehe's macking about the lack of evidence of widespread voter fraud particularly as relates to question of mail-in voting. listen to what the white house chief of staff said this morning. >> to suggest there's a process that is full of integrity is trying to make a verdict before you've heard the case and that's my problem with director wray. they need to investigate it and make sure that the voting -- >> are you confident in him? is the president confident in him? >> i beg you pardon? >> is the president confident in him? >> we want to make sure he's doing his job. there are different degrees of confidence in different cabinet members and he is still there. the minute that the president loses confidence in any cabinet member he'll -- they serve as his pleasure and he'll look at replacing them. >> reporter: the president and the team have been upset with the fbi director because of what they view of lack of cooperation with the durham investigation inve investigating the investigators as

and chris wray needs to step up and provide them or he needs to go.now the details of this are disturbing. it is pay-to-play conflicts of interest. if shows the extent which joe biden let his son hunter and his family apparently enrich themselves cash in on his own name while he was overseas as vice president. everybody says the algations are worse than realized. you mentioned $3 million from the former wife of the mayor of moscow. chinese communist officials in a law firm connected to hunter biden. it is also money transactions, 100,000-dollar spending spree financed by joe biden's brother, by a communist official and his brother's wife. individuals associated with criminal activity like prostitution, human and sex trafficking. also bribery. bribery involving the oligarch who ran burisma where hunter biden worked at. your reaction? >> quite frankly it could not get any worse when you look at individuals being paid by hunter biden, receiving payments involved in human trafficking, prostitution, pornography. but then you look not only what was going on

>> it seems pretty clear and pretty obvious and this is supported by the testimony of chris wray lastuse that president vladimir putin wants president trump to get re-elected. because he thinks president trump's policies are better for russian interference than the alternative, joe biden. and that's pruetty much the sam dynamic that played out in 2016. and when you see president trump sort of backing off criticism of russia, again, we can only speculate, some people think that the russians have something on him. it could be just as simple as that he likes the support and doesn't want to bite the hand that's feeding him. and in a way, it's a replay of 2016, where you have a foreign government supporting trump against the democrats. and the trump campaign basically saying that they have nothing to do with it. but at the same time, not to go everything they can to expose it, tell the american people about it, and put a stop to it. >> josh rogin, the headline, an assessment from the cia that vladimir putin is probably directing attacks meant to denigrate vice president joe biden and help

i think we have to rely on people like chris wray and one of the commissioner allen weintraub. i don't know what you're talking about, we don't throw out votes, we count them in america. we're going to have to rely on a lot of people inside the government, outside the government, to try to see if there's a sufficient margin of victory so it just becomes untenable for him to go forward. and that we're even discussing this, even having to go through this is so frightening and so antithetical to america, it's like we're operating in a tinpot dictatorship. the united states of america should be considering these options is frightful and very disturbing. you would think at this point voters would have had enough of this clown show. >> the way to do it is don't wait for the regime, assume the regime is already here, the republicans are all working together on it. it is what it is. fight back with your vote. thank you all very much. >>> up next on the "reidout," another note of protests after kentucky attorney general decided breonna taylor's life simply didn't matter. family attorney

chris wray is a person of integrity. the american people can believe what he says. and i'll leave it there. >> president trump this week continuing his campaign of repeatedly refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power after the november election should he lose. the white house claims he'll accept the results if the election is, quote, free and fair. do you consider this dangerous rhetoric? >> of course. and everyone, no matter your politics, should see it the same way. and i would hope that republicans who were planning to vote for donald trump should ask themselves am i really going to vote for someone who says they want to buy the culture, the norm, the transition that has made us america? how could you support such a person? >> ahead of your testimony on capitol hill next week, the chairman of the senate judiciary committee lindsey graham has released new documents showing that the fbi investigated dossier author christopher steele's primary sub source because of contacts with russian intelligence officers, republicans obviously saying that that undermi

chris wray says i'm prepared to go down with the ship.the president is pouring gasoline all over the election what can actually be done to protect the integrity and maintain the trust of the american people that's getting lost every single day? >> so we saw the top of the fbi yesterday. let me tell you what's going on just beneath that surface. the exact same mind-set that we're sticking to the truth. we're working 24/7 shifts at the fbi. this is what i'm being told is happening. they are essentially on a 9/11 counterterrorism footing playing whack-a-mole with the foreign meddling, the social media propaganda sites, working with silicon valley platforms to take sites down and block sites that are foreign propaganda and refusing to do things like the attorney general is saying charge protesters with sedition, for example. we've got an agency of career professionals that's working 24/7 to try to save this election i believe they can do it with public help showing up early to vote making sure you cast your vote in great numbers it's an all-o

director, chris wray, after he testified there was no evidence of voter fraud by mail or otherwise.s the president confident in director-ravage director wras leadership? >> i think my reference was he couldn't find e-mails at the f.d.a. it is not him with boots on the ground. you know and i know there is actually an investigation that the department of justice has initiated with some ballots being thrown in a waste paper basket. >> brennan: nine ballots in pennsylvania. >> nine ballots, but that's what we found. so we need to make sure we investigate it. it is not just the nine ballots in pennsylvania. it is duplicate ballots in other states. so to suggest there is a process that is full of integrity is trying to make a verdict before you've actually heard the case. that is why my problem with the director. they need to investigate it and make sure that the voting -- >> brennan: are you confident in him? is the president confident in him? >> i beg your pardon? >> brennan: is the president confident in him? >> as we look at him, we want to make sure he is doing his job. certainly he

director chris wray who told congress that russia is very active in trying to interfere i. the kremlin's goal is to denigrate joe biden. wray also broke with president trump by calling antifa an ideology, not an organization. the president wants to label antifa a terrorist group. instead, wray told lawmakers that it is white supremacist groups are the biggest focus of f.b.i. domestic terror investigations. turning now to the shocking comments from attorney general william barr comparing coronavirus stay at home orders to slavery. here's cbs's jeff pegues. >> reporter: attorney general william barr is under fireto coronavirus lockdown to slavery. >> stay at home orders is like house arrest. it is, you know, other than slavery which was a different kind of restraint, this is the greatest intrusion on civil liberties in american history. >> reporter: that remark brought swift condemn nation from the highest ranking african-american in congress. >> it is incredible that the chief law enforcement officer in this country equates human bondage to expert advice to save lives. >> re

. >> frank, the question on nobody's mind is why chris wray won't say china. china. everybody, the dni, who is a political lackey basically has had to acknowledge that it's russia christopher wray there under oath in front of congress testified to russia's intent we know that a homeland security whiftle blower complaint said that they were scuttled. why are we pretending that donald trump isn't considering firing another fbi director for telling the truth about russia and what does it say to you? >> it says that the truth hurts this president it says that he can't handle the truth. let me tell you something. the fbi director doesn't care what trump says or thinks about his testimony. he cares about the truth and he showed us something yesterday, nicole he showed us he was going to refuse to be part of that echo chamber. we hear that a lot related to where we get our news from i use the phrase echo chamber to talk about what alex is talking about in his documentary, which is that we have people at very high positions in this government, including the attorney ge

director chris wray says there's been a concerted effort by russian proxies to undermine joe biden's

here is what chris wray had to say. >> we have not seen historically any kind of coordinated nationalef of staff trying to cast doubt on that mess annual from tage from the n fbi director. >> it is remarkable. the fbi director, of course, was testifying under oath to congress what we all know to be true, which is that there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud in this country. nonetheless, the press is asserting that mail-in balloting is somehow fraudulent, asserting that the results could be illegitimate, that it will not be an honest election. again, no evidence of that. but mark meadows, the white house chief of staff, is trying to defend the president to double down on his allegations and in doing so attacking the word of the fbi director who was testifying under oath based on what his own bureau has uncovered or in this case has not uncovered. >> and, kelly, you're with the president, he's overnighting in florida waking up there this morning, getting ready for the roundtable we mentioned with latino and latina leaders in the community, talk about his day, because he might hav

abc 7 news reporter chris wray s says a lot of people have their fingers crossed. >> reporter: this is the scene in many restaurants still running in san francisco. >> we lost 90% of business, and this restaurant was doing 7 plus million dollars. >> reporter: here a sign of the times today three people max. it used to be 257. but some good news for those numbers. once indoor dining reopens, restaurants can start bringing back indoor dining at 25% capacity. >> there's been so much negativity and mental stress and strain. i feel it personally, and so many people i've talked to feel it. >> reporter: for the group, a company of eight restaurants this two wheel delivery system has been their lifeline. they're desperate if the city to go the color of their bike, orange. >> i think we're ready as an industry, and i think at this point we just need to kind of know what it timetable looks like. >> reporter: at perbacco they've already ordered plexiglass and still in the back of his mind what if like other times that date gets pushed back again. >> disappointmented is not the word. i'll be crush

resistance of truth when it's inconvenient to them and out right lie about it that's what you saw chris wrayneil, to the degree it's been a demoralizing 20 hours for the department, let me show you what christopher wray had to say in response to the attorney general saying every agent works for him. here he is under questioning from val demings >> he said like i said to the fbi agents, whose agents do you think you are. director wray, as we think about law enforcement and the very nonpartisan rule that law enforcement is engaged in or should be, to alleviate any confusion on behalf of your agents or the american people, how do you respond to that comment from the attorney general? >> i'm not familiar with that particular comment from the attorney general i will say we, the fbi, work for the american people. >> little bit -- i don't know. i guess that counts as chicken soup for the battered soul neil >> it's as good as we've gotten from the administration at this point. at least director wray is standing up for the men and women at the justice department, or at least the fbi. devlin and matt

director the president defends russia and putd put, rebuking the fbi director he hand picked after chris wray testified that the russians are interfering in the election trying to hurt joe biden. it is clear that the administration knows the solutions and methods to manage the crisis but actively ignoring them in the service of politics instead of public health. there is no ignorance defense here. this is negligence and it's killi killing people and threatening the democratic process in the united states. at the rate that the u.s. is going it could be a day or so before the nation reaches 200,000 coronavirus deaths, it is a tragedy that doctors, scientists and health experts warned about for weeks saying it was not inevitable but prehaven'tible and the number of casses go up once again across the nation. the map on the right a lot of orange and red to see there shows the difference from just monday. 30 states are seeing an uptick with 7 of them showing a jump of 50% or more new cases compared to last week. also for the first time this week the new infections in a single day exceeded 40,000 wi

what did chris wray's fbi do when the transactions were reported? what did the state department do?hat didtm joe biden discuss wih the state department officials, declined to stay anything to the vice president about? joe biden should be asked on the campaign trail every day until hehe answers. what did people say? did you believe you had a conflict of interest? did you know about the bribe? here is question i will put forward tonight, did joe biden meet with anyone involved with burisma holdings? i have reason to believe so. get the questions to vice president biden if he can answer them with a straight face we'll really know what the truth about what happened here. lou: it is a fascinating question. we look forward to that answer. turn to the oversight judiciary report on mail-in ballots and their initial concerns. give us your view? >> you know, it is an amazing thing to watch. i had an experience this morning, lou, that just struck me. i was driving into work. drove by a dmv in virginia. there were cones in the road. they were directing people come into the dms, register the vot

the way, one of the best people to listen to on that might be president trump's own fbi director chris wray. he spoke about it today. here's what he said. >> americans must have confidence in our voting system and our election infrastructure. now, we have not seen, historically, any kind of coordinated national voter fraud effort in a major election, whether it's by mail or otherwise. >> and yet trump's ardent supporters listened to him, and yes they take him seriously. so, yes, senator drawbrawn, it alarming. ill kait lan collins is live "outfront" the white house. you just heard two of them there believe that if biden wins, it's rigged. >> reporter: yeah, and that's part of a months-long effort by the president, erin, to sow doubt about the outcome of the election. what he said yesterday was provocative and rehe peted it, of course, today as you noted. it is not new. as far as this pattern of the president eventually working his way up to this comment where he will not commit to a peaceful transition of power if it comes to that. today he's saying the reason he won't is he's not sure the

nation's intel chiefs testified at the white house's worldwide threats hearing where fbi director chris wray, one of the two officials who showed up, did not minutes his words about the foreign threat to the 2020 election. >> we've seen very active, very active efforts by the russians to influence our election in 2020 from the foreign influence side of things. >> now as of this hour more than 198,000 americans have died of the coronavirus. a number the president is down playing. here's what he said last night and senate minority leader chuck schumer's response. >> if you take the blue states out, we're at a level that -- i don't think anybody in the world would be at. >> what kind of person looks at the number of dead citizens in the country he is supposed to lead and in an attempt to glamorize himself dismisses every american who died in a state that didn't support the president politically. what a isgrace. >> joining me now is political senior writer jake sherman and boston globe writer kimberly atkins great to have both of you with us kimberly, the "washington post" noting that more than

having said that chris wray, our fbi director has promised to do that he has done sweeping reforms.dd: the question comes, pam, did k. we protect the american people while also protected their liberties. obviously fisa was enacted to help protect the home land for it's been abused. we will see. >> exactly. todd: pam bondy, thank you your time. thank you for your insight here bright and early on a thursday morning. >> thank you. carley: set your dvr for 4:00 a.m. every morning to you never miss a minute of "fox "fox & fs first." todd: obviously a lot more on the breaking news president donald j. trump being nominated for the nobel peace prize. goodbye, everybody. [chanting u.s.a. >> joe biden has spent 44 years shipping jobs to china and i spent the last four years bringing jobs back to our country. [chanting four more years. >> what trump has tried to do here is contrast the level of energy. right? not only between the two candidates themselves but between the two campaigns. >> the police department in rochester had a dramatic shakeup. the police chief announcing his sudden retireme

i have known chris wray since we went to law school together.is president trump's own chosen fbi director. he's responsible for counterintelligence within the united states. he's testifying under oath that russia is a clear and present danger to our election. and president trump instead of taking to the airways and committing to himself the security of our elections against all enemies foreign or domestic, is instead choosing to attack his own fbi director. it leaves me speechless at times the ways in which president trump refuses to take responsibility for america's security in the face of vladimir putin's repeated attacks on what makes us a democracy, the security of our own elections. >> the attorney general bill barr is echoing president trump. he told me in an interview the other day that election interference from china is a greater threat than it is from russia. but that's just one example. when it comes to voting by mail or racial injustice, does bill barr seem to be amplifying the president's political messaging across the board? >> wol

chris wray is already in the doghouse with the president and with people who support him for not beinge for example, investigating joe biden, investigating barack obama for things that nobody believes are legitimate reasons. but that's what his expectation is, his expectation has been that law enforcement officials, particularly those appointed, work for him and not the people. and that is what we just saw play out with the fbi director working for the people and the chief of staff saying that's not what we expect from you. >> all right, dana. thank you so much. really appreciate it. >>> president trump is once again casting doubt on whether he'll accept the results of the election and agreed to a pillar of american democracy which is the peaceful transfer of power from one president to the next. >> are the elections -- ultimately legitimate if you win? >> so we have to be very careful with the ballots. the ballots, that's a whole big scam. we want to make sure the election is honest and i'm not sure it can be. i don't know that it can be with this whole situation unsolicited ballots,

so then that raises the question, how did chris wray become the fbi director?e know he asked the -- you know that he asked comey for loyalty and we know that he asked kelly for loyalty right after he left. so it creates this question, if you get into one of these positions, how did you get there? the president fired jeff sessions and openly said that he fired sessions because sessions had recused himself from the russia investigation, one of the most disloyal things that anyone has ever done to trump. he's been very, very public about that. so if that is how trump viewed these people and he got rid of them and didn't put them in positions because they wouldn't be loyal to him, then how do you get that position? how did you get there? look, we have no evidence that he asked chris wray for his loyalty to become the fbi director. we have no evidence he did that with barr, but we have a lot of evidence about how he dealt with the people before them and the folks that he got rid of in those positions. when he fired sessions he really, really wanted to fire sessions.

this is donald trump's fbi director, chris wray. >> yeah, andrea, this is like an episode of "when partisans attack." here you have mark meadows obviously placating the audience of one, the president, and going after law enforcement, the rule of law, the fbi director, who is merely stating the facts that there is no evidence of widespread voter fraud. the voter fraud issue is a phony issue. but i think it also points up a larger tension that the president does not want to be bound by the rule of law. he does not want to be bound by the traditions of our democracy. he certainly is not going to cede power if the election is in any way close, which of course it's going to be. i think we're headed for some very rocky times. i don't anticipate that we'll know the victor on election night. and the country is going to have to have a lot of patience and let the courts work its process to iron out the election results. i think trump is frankly laying the groundwork to stay in office until somebody removes him. >> how concerned are you about that eventuality, about that hypothetical? >> enormously con

cdc director was when he was testifying last week and yet still the white house is going after chris wray in a remarkable way today disputing the narrative that the president is putting out there. >> yeah. the grievances there run deep. appreciate it very much. >>> let's continue the conversation with two guests. let's go through the history here. the president built us up to this point, at the point now where he says if the vote count shows i lost then clearly the election was rigged, clearly all these mail-in ballots done in a fraudulent way. let's listen to the history. >> the only way we're going to lose this election is if the election is rigged. remember that. let them send it in and then go vote and if their system's as good as they say it is they won't be able to vote. large percentages of the ballots will be missing, fraud. it is a disaster. this is the scam of all time. ged rid of the ballots and you will have a -- we'll have a transfer -- there won't be a transfer frankly. there will be a continuation. >> it's that last part that has even republicans worried the president sayin

chris wray, the trump appointed fbi director comes out and says, no, we have not seen widespread fraud. these people can see what reality is and they're trying to express it and trying to do it under the shadow of this president who is the way he is. we have seen it for four years and the american people have pretty clearly made up their mind about it. one thing that is true is you're right that trump's followers, many of them listen to him. but there are fewer of them than there were four years ago. and when we look at the pattern in the polls we see clear national lead for joe biden. clear lead in battle ground states so the president's ability to shape reality to his benefit has limits to it. >> i don't think it's just trump supporters who are the audience here for the doubt. and i also think that the doubt is an end in and of itself for right now because it's meant to get into the minds of other voters. to make them think that maybe that their vote doesn't count right now. which is why i think it's so fascinating and worth playing the response from the biden campaign. we have been

hours before the president's bleak warning of insurrection and violence on the left, fbi director chris wray told the house homeland security committee about his agency's conclusions about racially motivated attacks. >> the biggest chunk of that are individuals who are motivated by some form of white supremacist ideology, and that's the -- that group, the racially motivated violent extremists, has been responsible for the most lethal activity the last few years. >> wray also seemed to break from president trump when he warned of russia's ongoing effort to meddle in our elections and in particular to harm joe biden's candidacy >> the intelligence community's consensus is that russia continues to try to influence our elections. and i think the intelligence community has -- has assessed this publicly to -- primarily to denigrate vice president biden and what the russians see as kind of an anti-russian establishment. >> and of course you knew this was coming tonight on his way to wisconsin, the president was yet again challenging the conclusions of one of the top people working for him, writing

we've heard this from the fbi director chris wray who spoke to this just last week. >> we verge haveery active, very active efforts by the russias to influence our election in 2020. an effort to both sow divisiveness and discord and i think the intelligence community has assessed this publicly, to primarily to denigrate vice president biden and what the russians see as kind of an anti-russian establishment. >> reporter: but it is notable that that is not something that we hear very often from the white house. instead, when they talk about election interference, they talk about china. after wray made those comments president trump criticized him and said what about china. kli china doesn't want president trump to get elected and with prefer former vice president biden, but by all accounts russia is being much more active in terms of meddling in the 2020 campaign, kate. >> alex, thank you so much for laying it out. i appreciate it. let me bring in national security analysis samantha vin grad. this reporting from josh, deja vu or something more? >> well the past is prologue when it come

that's what chris wray testified. that's what ben ginsburg, longtime republican leading election lawyer that we've known for many, many years has said. we have tried for decades to find voter fraud, because we were concerned about it. we have not found it. so justice -- the polls are not the president's friends. he's losing to joe biden in national surveys, in key battleground states. he's trying to discredit what's actually happening and mark meadows is his assistant in doing that, but it doesn't change the reality, the widespread voter fraud simply doesn't exist and they're putting the fog machine in overdrive, but it's not correct. >> as you know, there's a pattern of this throughout the trump presidency, when people on his team, appointed by him says things he doesn't like, he tends to turn on them with his anger and frustration, and there with his chief of staff saying things that simply aren't true. we have new reporting that the president is increasingly frustrated with the cdc director, dr. robert redfield, wh

. >> thankfully we have an fbi director in chris wray who tells us the truth, which is very unique among inner circle of people, his various directors, et cetera. most of them are too busy being sycophants to this president. so, yes, there has been no election fraud shown but the president keeps talking about it because he's the one who keeps trying to set the stage for a rigged election. and the republican party is doing everything they can spending some $20 million, plus another $100 million that they have in undisclosed money to try to keep as many people from voting as possible. so he's trying to rig the election. he is the one who is trying to rig the election. >> let's listen what nancy -- >> and getting support from russia to do that. >> listen to what nancy pelosi said about that point. >> you are not in russia, mr. president. and by the way, you are not in saudi arabia. you are in the united states of america. it is a democracy. he's trying to have the constitution of the united states swallow clorox. >> senator, the president apparently is going to keep saying these things. and

and chris wray chose his words very carefully yesterday.e clip, you could see he is reading from what appears to be prepared remarks as they have not seen any evidence of widespread voter fraud here in the u.s. and the chief of staff said he needs to go on ground in north carolina because they believe that would change his perspective and citing this case in pennsylvania that the department of justice now said they're investigating where they have these nine ballots that were discarded, seven of which were for trump and nine had to correct the statement on justice department website and that is out of the 6 million people we saw that voted in pennsylvania in 2016. and it is basically this culmination of the effort by the white house to sow doubt about what will happen in november when we know more people than ever are expected to vote by mail and that is something that is playing out in many different ways including with this lawsuit from the u.s. postal service that they just settled and now they're stitt wailing on formal approval from th

also, fbi director chris wray testified that russia is still working to affect the presidential election. yesterday, president trump was asked whether he would consider firing director wray. mr. trump said, quote, we're looking at a lot of different things, unquote. >>> joining us now is jonathan chate, writer for "new york" magazine. in a recent article he argued that the president's misdeeds are a moralism pairtive and possibly a con stunl cristituti problem in the making. >> i think this is another indication of one of the deepest problems we've seen in this presidency which is that president trump redefines criminality the way he sees it which is that crimes are things that are done by his opponents. anything he does is not a crime. he's managed to find people in his administration especially attorney general barr, who will follow through on that vision and turn it into the policy of the united states government. and that's what's reaching almost crisis levels. and that's what's going to create a real problem for prosecutors to deal with if trump leaves office. >> let me ask you abou

distracted from, something important, is russian election interferen interference, fbi director chris wrayis issue twice in the last week and there's absolutely no sign that president trump is going to address it. what is your message to vladimir putin? >> my message to vladimir putin is if i'm elected, i'm coming. i've made it clear before and i'll make it clear again i was part of the trans-atlantic commission where the former secretary general of nato and i, and former republican homeland security director, we all got together and met in europe and made a commitment of all those standing for election, we committed if there's any interference from outside and we knew about it, we would call it out and not accept it. i took that pledge. they took that pledge. this president refuses to take that pledge. he refuses to take that pledge. he would like very much to see vladimir putin to continue down the road he is. but i promise you -- i promise you, there will be consequences -- there will be consequences if i win for this involvement and our sovereignty. >> i want to talk to you about voter