attorney, former senior fbi official and msnbc legal analyst chuck rosenberg, msnbc legal correspondentere she is, lisa rubin, staff writer for the atlantic i can tom nichols and "new york times" opinion columnist david french. everybody, lisa, i am going to begin but. we assumed that this is what jack smith was going to do because, obviously, donald trump wouldn't let the cases continue when he took office. is there a way that he is doing this that is significant? >> yes, there is a way that he is doing this that is significant in both cases. i will take them one by one of the federal election interference case, what he is asked to do is dismiss this case without prejudice. let me take you to law school for a second. a dismissal with prejudice, the case is over, full stop, there is nothing you can do to revive it. a dismissal without prejudice gives you the opportunity to bring that case back. you may ask, how could they bring it back if jack smith is going to resign before donald trump is inaugurated as presidents? one of the things that he is clearly con templating here and he lays i

attorney chuck rosenberg and msnbc legal correspondent lisa rubin.is letter? >> we learned yesterday that former president trump's lawyers intended to file a motion to dismiss the entire indictment. that wouldn't just wipe the slate clean with respect to the existing conviction, it would mean that the case essentially wouldn't exist at all. the new york district attorney's office telling judge merchan they oppose that and want the conviction to stand. in the letter they sent to judge merchan, they're putting more meat on the bones as to y they believe the case should be dismissed, citing not only the presidential immunity decision, but also noting acording to department of justice policy, a sitting president can't be prosecuted and for the same reasons that animate that policy, those principles should be extended to a president in transition that essentially the person needs to attend to those core constitutional functions of preparing himself for the office and therefore they believe the whole thing should be dismissed. but the most interesting thin

. >>> joining us now, former senior fbi official and msnbc legal analyst chuck rosenberg and former chief of the counterintelligence and export control section in the doj's national security division, david ufman. matt gaetz, what would he do, what do you fear he would do atop the doj? >> katy, sometimes when somebody tells you what they're going to do, it is best to believe them, especially the context of the donald trump era. gaetz has said he intends to do precisely what trump has campaigned on, which is persecuting and seeking vengeance on anyone at the department of justice that had any connection to the investigations that have bedeviled mr. trump. so, we have to take him at his word. he's going to try to fire or cause grave harm to the people who have done their jobs, done their duty, fulfilled their oaths to the constitution to carry out these investigations. he's going to do great damage to the department and its practices and norms if he's confirmed. >> what do you think of the house ethics committee report that we might see? there is a little precedent for us seeing this, the h

. >> chuck rosenberg, a former u.s. ficial, a former senior advisor to attorney general merrick garland, both chuck and anthony are msnbc legal analysts. how seriously should jack smith and others at doj take those words of pam bondi? >> well, i don't think they have a choice but to take them seriously. it may be bluster, and it she gets a grown-up job like being the attorney general of the united states and comes to her senses, maybe none of these things happen. but if you are on the short end of this, you have to take it seriously and have to be prepared for it, which is deeply sad and not to be hyperbolic here, chris, but tragic. you spoke earlier about the rule of law. the rule of law is not self-sustaining. it depends on the goodwill of men and women in the department of justice to care for it, nurture it. and so if someone comes in and they have -- or they are acting in bad faith, you know, all of this is at risk. it's just a construct and it's at risk. should they be taking is seriously? absolutely. am am i hoping

attorney and msnbc contributor, chuck rosenberg and justice and intelligence correspondent ken dilanian. good morning to you all. a good group to sift through a busy morning in the courts. chuck, let me start with you about jack smith basically saying we're going to put this to the side with the attempt to overturn the 2020 election and also with any surprises for you what you heard yesterday? >> not really. i think it was necessary. on three occasions the department of justice under president nixon, under president clinton and now under president biden have more or less weighed the same question whether a sitting president, in this case a president-elect, can be prosecuted. the answer is no. i think that's correct practically. the smith team moved to dismiss the cases without prejudice, meaning at least theoretically they could come back one day but for now they are gone. i think it was the right thing. some may be disappointed, some elated. as a constitutional and legal matter, as i said, inevitable, necessary and appropriate, willie. >> and, ken, it was worth noting jack smith, when

. >> chuck rosenberg, as always and ken dilanian, thank you for your reporting. >>> we will go to athens on the trial of a suspect accused of killing nursing student laken riley. o killing nursing student lake riley. we all need fiber for our digestive health, but less than 10% of us get enough each day. good thing metamucil gummies are an easy way to get prebiotic, plant-based fiber. with the same amount of fiber as 2 cups of broccoli. metamucil gummies the easy way to get your daily fiber. ♪♪ whenever heartburn strikes, get fast relief with tums. it's time to love food back. also try new tums gummy bites. sofia vergara: at it's st. jude, there's back. one thing that makes us all family-- finding cures, saving children. one in five kids in the us still won't survive cancer. join our st. jude family. we need you. please donate now. ♪ [music] i could lock up every door ♪ ♪ check again just so i'm sure ♪ ♪ watch ziggy from the plane ♪ ♪ ♪ my garage i could open ♪ ♪ while i'm hiking in wyoming ♪ ♪ if my home just had a brain ♪ >>> testimony continues in a georgia courtroom in the trial of j

attorney and nbc contributor chuck rosenberg called the doj's move to wind down sensible, inevitableou see this? >> i say sensible, inevitable and unfortunate. sensible baas there's no way around it. come january 20th, it's not the principle in the story about you can't prosecute a sitting president. it's the fact that as the head of the executive branch trump will order the cases shut down. you don't want to have a situation -- he's also said he'll fire jack smith in two seconds. it's part of a kind of reign of terror he promises. you want to close it down on your own terms and methodically rather than chaotically and abruptly. the big decision for jack smith and the department will be whether to write a report for the attorney general, which the attorney general will have the discretion to make public, that's the sort of last possibility for possibility for airing out all the evidence that they have collected. but it makes no sense to try to scramble to january 20th. at that time, it will be completely dead because trump says you must stop. >> and so then what else could trump do?

attorney and msnbc contributor chuck rosenberg.m negative impact on the united states. you can look at the a.g. selection. you can look at tulsi gabbard -- >> dni. >> dni, which our allies have said just don't expect the sharing of any intel with the united states anymore because, of course, she spread, constantly spread disinformation from putin. also, of course, many people concerned about her relationship with assad in syria. and then, of course, also had the d.o.d. pick, which retired generals and admirals deeply concerned about not only his lack of experience, but also some of the extraordinarily hostile things that he has written, talking about democrats as enemies from within and worse. >> yeah, he wrote that in a book not that long ago. that's not an old thought for met gala hegseth, pete hegseth. for every marco rubio and secretary of state and john thune winning yesterday to be the majority leader of the united states senate, which most people in washington said, okay, we can live with those chooses. john thune a highly r