crow's garden of evil, harlan crow claims to abhor donald trump, but there is no trump statue in theden of eagle. joining our discussion now, jamelle bouie, he's a columnist for the new york times and co-host of the podcast unclear and present danger. and john mall, as i was reading that article today by the commons by harlan grow, i was just waiting for the moment, where i could hand you the microphone and get your reaction to it. >> how do i say this. i still find his decision to collect these statues so odd, and so bizarre for a lot of the reasons you described. there is, he says they are there to commemorate the victims of atrocities, but one does not honor the victims of atrocities with statues of the people who committed the atrocities, right? there is no statue of bin laden at ground zero. it does not make any sense. his sense of what constitutes the great evil of the 20th century seems very narrow, in a way that is unusual. as you mentioned, he does not seem to have any connection to u.s. history, or the terrible things that happened in our own history. the entire projects of

for his part, harlan crow is defending his actions. saying, in part, quote, harlan crow has long been passionate about the importance of quality education and giving back to those less fortunate, especially at risk youth. a friend of justice thomas also released a long statement on the matter, arguing it is a, quote, malicious story, shows nothing except for the fact that promises and crows are kind, generous, and loving people who tried to help this young man. the statement also confirms that harlan crow did pay for martin's first year at randolph meaghan academy and the year at his other boarding school in georgia. i should note, the friend who wrote that long statement is the man depicted in the center of this painting. harlan crow, far right, commissioned this artwork to commemorate the time spent at his adirondack resort every summer with justice clarence thomas, second from the right. now, let's just take a step back from a moment, consider the nature of this relationship between harlan crow and clarence thomas. call it a deer in

he wants crow to answer questions. doesn't comply, i will explore other tools at the finance committee's disposal to shed more light on what appears to be blatant corruption. i think to that point, richard, it almost doesn't matter if crow specifically had cases before the court. he's a big donor to republicans like greg abbott, who banned abortion in his state. he's a big co -- a cofounder of club for growth which has gotten all of its asks from citizens united on, on this court. in the past three decades they publicly donated $14.7 million to candidates and committees, at least there 13 million went to republicans. they're getting republican outcomes. it doesn't need to be specific cases. and let's go back to scalia. justice scalia when he died, he literally was staying for free at a west texas hunting lodge owned by a business person whose company had recently had a matter before the supreme court. is this not just simple corruption that thomas learned from scalia and is now practicing it for himself and his family.

to crow clearly thinks of it as a friendship. that that relationship deserves. >> one of the things that i find striking, sort of as a thread throughout the piece is that he really down plays his power. so, he denies talking to crow at all about the law. he says to you, he has little power over the american political scene. he points to trump as an example of that. but a lot of this, by the way, happened way before trump. and then has some hindsight that is 2020 for him, right? now he admits it looks kind of sketchy. >> yeah. or 2016 hindsight. i mean, har lan crow is a gop megadonor who has paid for think tanks that have been part of the intellectual architecture of the gop. he is also very much anti-trump. so in 2016, when donald trump won, i think he kind of wondered where did all that money go if what he was trying to build was something that was not a trump republican party. and he had no power to stop donald trump from rising. so, you know, you get people who are billionaires or near billionaires who think that they have bo

crow's private jet.t judge getting sworn in? she's on the supreme court justice. judge ho is one of the three circuit court judges that will decide whether or not mifepristone remains in this country. if you understand in which he may be leaping on this matter take a listen to how he answered this question today. >> so in the preamble to the -- >> judge ho has called abortion a moral tragedy. he's down-played the judge's actions before the senate and defended justice thomas' acceptance of gifts from harlan crow, the guy who hosted judge ho's swearing in. today the senate judiciary subcommittee held a hearing on justice thomas' acceptance of all these things so we have something nice to talk about. dahlia, thank you for being here tonight. >> good to be with you. >> what happened in the senate subcommittee hearing today? >> it was fairly amazing because you had a judge, a now senior judge who was a reagan appointee who worked for all sorts of conservative causes essentially come forward and say i was upse

now, for the first time, we're hearing from harlan crow himself.rview with the atlanta, crow told my next guest, quote, i have never, nor would i ever, think about talking about matters that relate to the judiciary with justice clarence thomas. adding that they, quote, talk about the kind of things friends talk about. joining me now is graham -- staff writer at the atlantic, who interviewed harlan crow about his relationship with justice thomas. graham, thank you so much for being here. i was fascinated by your piece. you know, access to harlan crow is not being given liberally, it's not like he sitting down and talk to the media. so the fact that you got to chance to speak to him is very important. i wanted my viewers to start off by knowing, did harlan crow appear to you to be very forthcoming and very open and transparent about the information he's providing to you. >> yeah, he was mostly transparent. he thinks of clarence thomas as a friend, so they're always going to be intimacies between friends that one doesn't want to talk about, but i aske

>> host: barbara brings up harlan crow. let's introduce reporting of propublica on the lavish vacations and gives that harlan crow gave to justice thomas and ginni thomas over the year. over the years. is your documentary deal with thosee reports? >> guest: essentially first off someone said this in our conversation this morning. clarence thomas is in the company, let's do it this way. as a child he really due to the world and himself in it as an untouchable, like a cut sitter in america. he is been working climbing out of that untouchable status of to get the equivalent of e the highest caste in america, if we had brahmans he would be come he would consider himself a brahman now. what that meant end-of-life experience was you had to become extremely friendly with, in this case, with white wealthy people, white wealthy men. he gets there as he, after his confirmation hearings. he stops reading the "new york times", the "washington post", any national media and he relies on information in the world on two people, his wife gi

crow hasn't responded to our requests for an interview.st released these statements, and you know, why exactly these financial ties have so many tentacles is still pretty much unclear. >> and the other big piece of what makes this alarming or concerning maybe is the fact that clarence thomas just never disclosed any of this in his financial disclosures, and so barbara i want you to jump in here and get your reaction and thoughts on some of this reporting. propublica reports this, and i quote, thomas did not report the tuition payments from crow on his annual financial disclosures. several years earlier thomas disclosed a gift of 5,000 for martin's education from another friend. it's not clear why he reported that payment but not crow's. what do you think, barbara? why report one but not the other? what does that indicate to you? >> this is a bright red flag. this is, along with all of the other episodes of receiving funds from harlan crow, the kind of conflict of interest that just cannot stand on our supreme court. it is very suspicious,

you obtained records of these payments by harlan crow.s $6,200 for one month at a georgia boarding school. your report said crow paid for a full year at that school, and that came after he already paid for a year at another boarding school in virginia. so, how much money in total are we talking here? >> so, the exact total that crow paid for this child's tuition over the years isn't exactly clear, but you know, if thomas's friend, actually, after we published this story, came out and released a statement confirming that crow had paid for tuition at both of these schools, and he said that he paid for one year at each. and if you look at the tuition rates from that time, that would be about $100,000. >> $100,000. wow. and you note that two possible reasons justice thomas would not have to disclose these tuition payments. one is that his grand nephew likely does not qualify as a dependent child under a federal law, which defines that is, "a son, daughter, stepson or stepdaughter." thomas has said, "we're raising him as a son, but he is his g

we are now figuring out the carrying capacity of crows. and eight eighty grams.e weight of a mine is a petal, are crows capable of carrying such a load, they are able to carry it. cargo, eh, but uh, knowing the intelligence in the wound of uh curiosity. uh the first thing they uh do when they are interested in a subject they will research it the device, in other words, they will try to peck at the blow with their beak is quite significant and can e exceed 5 kg , therefore, if the crow is interested in the petal, and even more so if a shiny object sticks out of this petal, she will try to dig up and it will be logical that she is the first on it and fit they draw conclusions. and if an object presents a danger, especially a danger that was realized before the eyes of other members of the community, then, not only the community itself will not exist. uh, next hmm get closer to these items. but more than that, this information will miraculously spread to the nearest community and the petals will be completely uninteresting for uh, crows, whether they are able to dis

now, crow wasn't the only person who offered thomas tuition money.at 2002 financial disclosure form where clarence thomas reported a $5,000 gift for mark martin's education. that gift was from the owners of a florida based pest control company. as propublica reports thomas was very careful in accepting and disclosing that contribution. according to two journalists who wrote a biography of thomas, at first thomas was worried about the propriety of the donation. he agreed to accept it if it was donated into a special trust for mark. and yet when it came to harlan crow, a multibillionaire with an avowed and articulated interest in swinging the judiciary to the right, justice thomas stayed silent. and then there is thomas' wife ginni. tonight "the washington post" is reporting that ginni thomas received tens of thousands of dollars for consulting work in 2012 as directed by federalist society leader leonard leo. "the post" says leo instructed the pollster to use that money to pay ginni thomas. this was the same year leo's non-profit filed an amicus brief

that room they are all standing in, that is a private library in the home of harlan crow.publica, flight record suggests that harlan crow perhaps even flew justice clarence thomas into the swearing in on harlan grows private jet. but who is the judge here who is getting sworn in? he's not a supreme court judges. judge ho is one of the series circuit court judges who will decide whether or not mifepristone will main accessible in this country, at least until the supreme court weighs in. and if you like an understanding of which way judge ho might be leaning on this matter, listen to the question he asked during a hearing today is the defense tried to ask why the fda expedited its approval of mifepristone. >> so in the preamble to the regulation -- >> on mother's day. we're celebrating illness? >> no, your honor. >> judge ho has called abortion immoral tragedy. his downplayed judge andrew kaz merrick sexes before the senate, and he is defended justice thomas's acceptance of gifts from harlan crow, the guy who hosted judge ho's swearing. in today's senate judiciary committee

crow explained how the two pals way met.so executive count crow was in d.c., where he got word from some executive pals of his that thomas needed to go to texas for a speaking engagement, so he offered him a ride on his private jet, and, as crow like explains, "during that flight, you we found out we were kind of simpatico. we're the same age. we grew up in the same era. we come from absolutely polar opposite life stories, but we had a lot in common." it's a heartwarming american story. even though two people might have totally opposite backgrounds, they can still come together in the sky to enjoy scott honey roast peanuts on himmler's snack tray. when the reporter asked, "did he ever consider his friendship with thomas as a ticket to quid pro quo?" crow said, "every single relationship, a baby's will relationship to his mom, has some kind of reciprocity." no, no, no. he's right. yeah, it's just like a baby. be clarence thomas is sucking on his money teat. like this weekend. [cheers and applause] a this weekend, the nra host

and harlan crow stepped into which some of the bill.rtins tuition at two different schools -- for the duration and the total sum of those payments remains unclear and in a statement to propublica, mark paoletta, another longtime friends of --, said crow paid two years worth of tuition at the schools, which would amount to about $100,000 of undisclosed to asian gives. while nbc has not independently verified this reporting, crow responded to propublica with the statement about he supported tuition for many kids, and he did not deny the reporting. now, crow was not the only person who offered thomas tuition money. remember, there was that 2002 financial disclosure form. and clarence thomas reported a 5000-dollar gift for mark martin's education. that give, that $5,000 a gift was, from earl and louise dixon, a the owners of a florida-based pest control company. as propublica reports, thomas was very careful in accepting in these closing that contribution. according to two journals who wrote a biography of, thomas at first thomas was worrie

not only are thomas and crow pictured here at crows luxurious adirondack resort, where this paintingwe all see federal society leonard leo who the washington post between republican megadonor harlan crow and a supreme court justice. the stunning image captures the real story. not only are thomas and crow pictured here at crows luxurious adirondack resort, where this painting hangs, we all see federal society leonard leo who the washington post reports directed tens of thousands of dollars to the form of ginni thomas while keeping her name off billing paperwork. although msnbc news has not independently verified this. and then there's mark carlotta, the former general -- under donald trump and a lawyer for ginni thomas. he's also been writing defense of his whole arrangement. dispute resolution, of the university of georgia law school. the story of chummy-ness and, i would argue, corruption, told in this image, is not tangential to the story of our current 63 conservative super majority in the court and the dobbs decision that struck down roe v. wade and the many other dangerous decis

crow's office saying, point-blank, that justice thomas never asked harlan crow to make payments.lations of drip, drip, drip discloures from the media that illustrate a secret and potentially improper financial relationship between a billionaire and conservative supreme court justice. it's where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. brian fallon is here. kim atkins stohr is here. barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney, now law professor. when he thought he was out of here, we grab andrew weissmann to stay with us through this conversation. i want to say two things at the outset. paying for -- first of all, clarence thomas raising as a son a relative is an honorable thing. i don't know him, but it sounds like a nice thing to do. harlan crow paying for someone's tuition is an honorable thing. but that doesn't erase the public's right to know why clarence thomas didn't abide by the few meager disclosure and ethics laws that exist for this supreme court, and why this is another secret financial entanglement, brian, between a billionaire and the same supreme

collin crow picking up the tuition talk for the justices grand. new ethics concern which the court needs to address a little later. all of this and more is coming up. so, for the third time in just over one week, the country is waking up to yet another mass shooting the latest happening at a packed outlet mall in dallas yesterday afternoon we know at least nine people are dead, including the suspect and at least seven others including a five-year-old child, were injured as of right now, we do not know the identity or the motive of the suspect but authorities are saying that they believe that the shooter acted alone in one statement, texas governor greg abbott calls the shooting an unspeakable tragedy the white house says president biden has been briefed on the incident we are going to go to texas state senator roland gutierrez in just a moment but first let's go to allen, texas, about 25 miles northeast of dallas that is where we have nbc news correspondent chesky there live morgan, sorry to put you in the morning for such horrible news but we nee

or play crow well, play crow , because crow is ukrainian, and they have not yet arrived, but certain events are taking place there, and the governor of the belgorod region is calling, already by his last name, all smooth people have learned it, even already now you can identify him if you see him somewhere. he is one of the stars of the screen today. he said so . those who have the opportunity, e - e, travel by personal transport. of all property. by the way, i wouldn't believe this word. i wouldn't believe it because i didn't behave in the same way in ukraine. they will also rob the remaining houses in the belarusian region. serhiy, we congratulate you. glory to ukraine. congratulations to the heroes , glory. first of all, i would like to ask about the security situation as of the evening. this day in odesa , odesa region, how did the night pass? he sounded that air alarm signal at the beginning, we opened the account of downed air targets in ukraine because the forces against the air defense of odesa destroyed an enemy strike over the sea, not a drone . well, then there was actuall

senator ron wyden wants to get information from harlan crow. obeying tax, law they know what they are talking about there and this is filled now with possible federal tax violations. >> oh, it's filled with tax violations. it's filled with conflicts of interests. it's filled with corruption. it's filled with ethics violations that any american would understand. i'm glad that senator wyden starting to pursue this. but the senate and house need to haul harlan crow into a hearing to understand exactly what he did under oath too support clarence thomas, to support ginni thomas, to support clarence thomas's great nephew or whomever it is that he was the legal guardian for. and the american people deserve to understand the degree of intertwining finances between harlan crow and justice thomas. we know their relationship began after justice thomas reached the supreme court. so, this is not a pre-existing relationship. we need to get answers to this. if we, in congress and in the senate are not to subpoena clarence thomas, which i understand is a huge

records show that crow paid his $6,200 a month tuition.the tuition for the grandnephew's entire year long stay at that school. guess what? thomas never reports this. 2009. harlan crow reportedly gives $500,000 to a political nonprofit started by ginni thomas. the money is initially given anonymously. but politico links it to crow in 2011. 2012 -- conservative activist leonard leo instructs kellyanne conway to billet nonprofit group he advises and give ginni thomas another $25,000. he says the paperwork should include no mention of ginni thomas, of course. 2014 -- in thomas sells three pieces of property he co-owners to crow, including his mother's house. despite the law outlining that such real estate sales must be disclosed, thomas does not to do so. my panel is back with me. carol, that was just kind of the timeline we put together. let's start with his letter from harlan crow's attorneys to the senate finance committee this week, where he basically does not want to cooperate. how solid do you think their legal rationale for ignoring the

conservative mega donor harlan crow is once again center. >> propublica has information that crow footedcourt now under growing pressure to answer for all of this. supreme court justice clarence thomas and his wife didn't just get lavish trips, yacht rides, or a real estate deal from harlan crow. the billionaire gop mega donor also paid boarding school tuition for thomas's grandnephew, for whocm thomas ws the legal guardian. that's according to propublica, which says thomas did not report the tuition payments on his annual disclosures. democrats and republicans in the senate see this development through opposite lenses. >> i hope the chief justice roberts reads this story this morning and understands something has to be done. the reputation of the supreme court is at stake here. >> i know harlan crow, and i know clarence thomas, and they're both honorable men. this is part of a 32-year smear campaign that started with his confirmation hearing. >> reporter: thomas's grandnephew lived with thomas and his wife for a number of years. propublica cited a former administrator at hidden lake aca

superyacht, flying on crow's g-5 jet, and visits to crow's various estates, including one in the adirondacks, which has a three-boat garage. well, yeah. a busy family's gotta have three boats. what if the kids sleep late and miss the school yacht? thomas clearly... [cheers and applause] it's all about education. these people love education. justice thomas clearly spends a lot of time with crow. because that same resort features an actual painting showing the two smoking cigars with conservative operatives under a statue of a native american man praying for a flash flood. in response, justice thomas has explained this was all just a misunderstanding, saying he was advised by colleagues that "this sort of personal hospitality from close personal friends who did not have business before the court was not reportable." adding, "now i gotta get back on deck before we lose lose that golden hour sun. #yachtlife. #somelikeityacht." and thomas insists that these gifts from crow don't count because of their personal relationship, saying: "we have been friends for over 25 years." okay, but you've been o

crowe's home in the diet that flight would be half o million dollars. he has never disclosed it in gorsuch for years he owned a piece of land in colorado that he was trying to sell along with one or two of other investment partners and for well over a year they had to lower the price for couple of times and literally within nine days of the supreme court justice the property was purchased at a very nice sum by the head of a major law firm that support this supreme court quite frequent in terms of his disclosure form it just lifted a range of income he received through anra llc in whh was the name of the investment firm but he didn't devote this was a land deal and didn't oppose the nature of the income he was bringing in and didn't default the buyer is being the law firm.or this was all figured out by political which published a story in the last couple of weeks. these highlight the situation in terms of a lack of disclosure by supreme court justices and shedding light on the ways in which people if they want to curry favor with justices can do so. >> w

as harlan crow spent more on clarence thomas that a costume to by adolf hitler's paintings, harlan crow'sight to ask questions of the man who owns the home that clarence thomas's mother currently lives in, and owns, and autographed copy of adolf hitler's book, mein kampf. harlan crow's lawyers say the senate judiciary committee has no jurisdiction over ethics of the supreme court, but that is, of course, false. the reason harlan crow cannot pay clarence thomas 1 million dollars, where $10 million to deliver a lecture this weekend at the massive library that harlan crow's texas home, where the hitler painting lives, along with the hitler teapot, and the hitler autographed copy of mein kampf, is that congress legislated a ban on lecture fees for supreme court justices in the same way that congress passed a ban on lecture fees for members of the house and senate. one of the countermeasures to republican billionaire control of the supreme court, is to expand the supreme court, the senate judiciary committee has a bill pending, and the committee, right now, tonight, to expand the supreme court

coming up next, has harlan crow spent more time buying hitler's paintings and memorabilia harlan crow'sy committee said he will not testify to the committee about how much money he has spent on clarence thomas and is another example of why our next guest supreme court reporter dahlia lithwick reflect should all the supreme court the same way we cover congress. ♪ma ma ma ma♪ [clears throut] for fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops with two times more menthol per drop*, and the powerful rush of vicks vapors for fast-acting relief you can feel. vicks vapocool drops. fast relief you can feel. (psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. (psst psst) flonase. all good. ♪ they need their lawn back fast and you need scotts turf builder rapid grass. it grows grass 2 times faster than just seed alone. giving you a stronger lawn. smell that freedom, eh? pick up a bag at lowe's today. feed your lawn. feed it. (water splashing) hey, dad... hum... what's the ocean like? ♪ are there animals living und

federal law requires justices to report gifts, but thomas did not disclose crow's tuition payment, yet he did report one made by somebody else in 2002 nbc news has not confirmed the propublica report. that tuition money now adding to a growing list of unreported perks propublica says crow paid for, including luxury vacations for thomas, a portion of his wife's salary, and thomas' family home, allowing his mother to live rent-free tonight no comment from thomas, who previously said he was advised he did not need to report those other gifts from crow, a long-time friend, who he says had no business before the court. crow's office saying he has long been passionate about the importance of quality of education, but democrats are demanding a formal ethics code for justices. >> the reputation of the supreme court is at stake here. >> reporter: while republicans argue democrats are bitter about decisions from the court's conservative majority. >> he has obviously been targeted because he is a conservative black man. >> reporter: without republican support, nothing will pass in congress it's u

quote, i'm a real estate guy crow added.ery common in real estate deals involving the elderly. an insignificant expense compared to the cost of the deal as a whole. only rich people describe the price of a house as insignificant and say it's common for the elderly and say i'm a real estate guy. and the bigger problem around all of this is they didn't tell anybody. brian fallon, what do you think of what we're learning from harlan crow himself? >> well, so much of what got said in that "atlantic" piece doesn't pass the laugh test. first and foremost, he continues to just act like they're simply friends. and at one point remarks that it would be strange if a supreme court justice is not allowed to have friends. these guys aren't friends. they met after clarence thomas became a supreme court justice, and the only reason that they met is because harlan crow caught wind of the fact that clarence thomas was giving a speech in texas and he offered him a ride on his private jet. so if clarence thomas did anything other than being a

this book really addresses the jim crow era, jim crow era violence and resistance and law, looking at violence and resistance through the lens of law, looking at an era of our country, really the confederate states of the south which were in effect lawless. i described these as an authoritarian regime with a purportedly -- within a purportedly democratic state. it looks at these three things and unearths new stories, new information to paint a picture not just of what lives look like then, so it is history for its own sake. history that helps us understand what it meant to be alive in that moment. obviously as well, it is also history that informs us about the moment that we live in today, so that is the gist of the work. let me just say one other thing. the book really began as i began to meet families who had experienced these events and who were carrying these stories as their own personal history, their own family history. we traveled across the country to meet with folks who experienced these horrific atrocities, and our effort was to provide to them the material that the governm

crowes office told your publication in part in a statement that reads this way, "harland crow has longionate about the importance of quality education and giving back to those less fortunate, especially at risk youth. it's disappointing that those with partisan political interests but try to turn helping at-risk youth with with tuition assistance into something nefarious or political." he is not disputing the facts presented in the story. >> no, he is not. a longtime friend of thomas who served as a lawyer for his wife apparently paid for two years of tuition, one at one school, one at the other. geoff: i think in general one of the things that gets lost is the ethics of such payments. how we should expect our public what gifts we think are ok for them to accept, especially in secret. we talked to a former white house ethics lawyer for george bush who said this is way beyond anything he has ever seen and that when he was at the white house if an official had accepted what thomas had, he would have been fired. thank you for sharing your reporting with us. >> thank you for having me. ♪ a

. >> narrator: one of those wealthy conservatives was harlan crow. >> harlan crow has given millionso shape the law and the courts-- trying to sort of push the law in a conservative direction. >> narrator: their friendship was commemorated with a painting. >> this was a painting that harlan crow commissioned. we have clarence thomas and harlan crow both smoking cigars, and across from them is leonard leo. leonard leo is one of the leaders of the federalist society. he is wily regarded as, you know, a principal architect of the supreme court and the judiciary's turn to the right. >> narrator: crow even helped fund a documentary that aired on pbs promoting thomas as a humble man. ♪ ♪ >> one of clarence's biggest loves is when he can get away from washington, d.c., and be on the road in his motorhome. ♪ ♪ >> you know, i don't have any problem with going to europe, but i prefer the united states. i prefer the rv parks. i prefer the walmart parking lots. i come from regular stock, and i prefer that. i prefer being aund that. >> narrator: but out of the public eye, thomas was living a very

means that means there is more to say about clarence thomas and harlan crow and harlan crow refusing to -- as he is politely requested, everything, all of the money that harlan crow has spent on clarence thomas will get the senator's latest attempt to get that information. >> he has been leading to charge on that, it way that was so critical given the utter silence honors -- so i'm eager >> there's a tweet i want to redo, this is from feisty granny, which is a handle that i think will probably be available to you 40 years from now when you might want to use it. she says i never have doubts that this was not his first time dealing with negotiations. he knows what he's doing, i ignored all of the breathless reporting, knowing that it would be okay. she is, of course, talking about president biden's handling of the debt ceiling negotiations. feisty granny is just much cooler than i am about this, i was worried for months and weeks but it turns out the guesswork thing that i offered to the audience last week turned out to be pretty much what happened over the weekend. >> well, lawrence,

harlan crow has regular interests before the supreme court. he funds groups that are making claims before the court. he is part of a vast right-wing infrastructure seeking to influence the court. so, maybe there is an argument to be had, if it is a friend who has zero interests that you are potentially rendering a decision on. but that's not what was going on. your what was going on here with clarence thomas is somebody that wanted the court to act on his company's behalf, befriended supreme court justice, funneled millions of dollars to that justices family. every american knows that that is out of bounds. that is why seven or eight out of ten americans think that clarence thomas should be held accountable for what he has done. >> well, not just accountable. many americans would say he should resign. massachusetts democratic senator -- your colleague in the senate -- ed markey today, tweeted, quote, clarence thomas must resign. do you agree with him? >> i haven't called on thomas to resign. i am not sure how helpful that would be. i think our

i think, look, i've met harlan crow. he's a wonderful person. i think that we should kind of get away from this assumption that the only time the money corrupts is when it's written by a person who prescribes to right leaning politics, right? i think money corrupts absolutely, and i think we should focus on that. >> we all agree on that. we just happen to have a face for this one and leonard leo because "the washington post" just tonight has published this new information about ginni thomas and how much money she has apparently taken from him and how he tried to expunge her name from some of the records, according to "the washington post." >> don't you think it's absolving clarence thomas from impropriety by politicizing this. we're not talking about it in any other case except the one that's in front of our face, and to have a supreme court justice have this type of proximity to someone like harlan crow and to be this deep in with him, that doesn't give you pause and make you feel a certain way? >> first of all, i don't think those words ever c

he co-owns to crow. including his mother's house. sales must be disclosed. thomas doesn't do so. what my panel is back with me. carol, that was kind of the timeline we put together. let's start with this letter from harlan crow's attorneys to the senate finance committee this week. where he basically doesn't want to cooperate. how solid do you think there are legal rationale for ignoring the panel's inquiries. this is a senate congressional committee. >> i think ultimately, they would win on this front. the weird thing is that ultimately, that issue could end up going up in front of the supreme court. that's what's so uncomfortable an awkward about this entire scenario. this is all about standards. this isn't about rules necessarily. as we have learned, it's very difficult to figure out whether any rules actually do apply to the supreme court. they are a separate branch of government. if you really want to get down to brass tacks and status this committee have the ability to subpoena these records, i think the answer is ultimately go

. >> and who is harlan crow, and what does he say he thought he was doing when he took justice clarencemas on his yacht? the atlantic went to the billionaire's house which is filled with statues of dictators to see what's going on with crow's lavish gift giving. we're back in 60 seconds. givin. we're back in 60 seconds it's your verizon. (woman) with verizon's new myplan, i get exactly what i want. and only pay for what i need. (man) now i'm in charge... ...of my plan. (vo) introducing myplan from verizon. you get exactly what you want and only pay for what you need. and it all starts at just $30. it's your verizon. >>> he thinks he can win. senator tim scott of south carolina jumped into the 2024 race for president, claiming that he is the best republican candidate. >>> they're attacking our american values, our schools, our economy, and our security. but not on my watch. not on my watch. that won't work. i'm the candidate the far left fears the most. >> joining me now from north charleston, south carolina, is nbc news correspondent ali vitali. when he says he's the candidate that the

that harlan crow spent on clarence thomas. we'll get the senator's latest attempt to get that information, when he joins us tonight. >> lawrence, he has been leading the charge on that in a way that i think is so critical, given the other silence from his colleagues on the other side of the aisle. i am eager to hear what he says. >> he has really stepped up. alex, there is a tweet that i want to read to you. this is from feisty granny, which is a handout that i think will probably available to you for years from now, -- she says, i never had doubts. this was not his first time dealing with the negotiations. he knows what he is doing. i ignored all the breathless reporting knowing that it would be okay. she is of course talking about president biden's handling at the debt ceiling negotiations. feisty granny is just much cooler than i am about this. i was worried for months and weeks. but it turns out that the guesswork thing that i offered to the audience last week turned out to be too much about what happened over the weekend.

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a jim crow army cannot fight for a free world. and so if we fast forward ahead to 48, once president truman eventually signs the executive order to serve the military, that's after a decade intense pressure from civil rights activists roy wilkins, who understand that segregation makes no sense for military. it's trying to fight and win global war on this scale. if i leave you with one thing, it's just that segregation made no sense for the military then to do everything and duplicate it was redundant. it served no strategic or tactical purpose. but americans understand that and they want to to do everything they can to push against it. the book also highlights stories of the black americans who performed valiantly in combat. no how it just to hear edward carter if i had to vote for one of the most fascinating soldiers to fight in world war two, carter is right up there. he's raised by a missionary family. and so he grows up in china and, india, when he's 15. he joins the chinese national army to fight against japanese in shanghai.

the crow commission extended this time to several minutes, thus the crow commission deceived the publicting vicky as yet another bewildered witness. case closed, according to the data. there was enough time in oswald's report to shoot, hide his rifle and go down to the cafeteria on the second floor. but in 1999, i found in the national archives one document that had been hidden for 35 years, namely, a letter from the assistant us attorney, which was accompanied by eyelid testimony, which she gave jolie a rankin. at that time he headed the commission. in the last paragraph of this letter. i found dorathy garner and interviewed her. she confirmed everything. she said that she was standing at the window with vicki that vicki immediately moved away from the window, then dorothy ran out after vicki and saw her running down the stairs for all this time, she never saw olga stroud's letter became a very dangerous document for the commission crow. if the review board hadn't declassified the documents, we would never have known about the testimony of the three witnesses. all three confirmed that