cruz amplified the demint role.aken it and become the conservative movements person in the upper chamber. a role he relishes and a role he will continue to have. the question is as he gets beyond the fiscal impact. who is going to be there, to be an ally for him politically. who is going to be in the trenches when he tries to get something done. more of an open question. >> mark mckinnon when you watch john mccain. you know him enough. he was going to at some point have to come out and say this. he wasn't going to stand by and watch this, continue to happen. do you think there is any chance of him, of the mccain position in the senate, and in the congress, getting more public allies who are willing to speak as plainly as mccain? i do. i think he is reflecting internal feelings of members around for any length of time and remember the good old days when things were partisan. but we got things done. the other thing that is important. senator mccain is going to start get sag part from large swaths of the business commu

the person of ted cruz.cans will consider him their best surrogate and we consider him our best surrogate, too. whether every he goes though, i think he's a political liableily for all republicans. is that true? kind of like a bad guy? is he won of those pariah that hurts you as a senator? hurts other senators? >> he was in virginia last week in a governor's race and ken cuccinelli, who earlier in the campaign, said we needed more senators like ted cruz, wouldn't even get on the stage with him. i think that says it all. >> what do you think cruz said to that? he shows up for the guy, travels there, gives him his weekend, but he doesn't want to stand next to him. does he just say, i know i'm hated? how does he absorb that information in bhen they thought about it, don't be seen with this guy. >> you can't see the poll is wrong if you see a dpi running away from you. but i think it's a mistake and obviously, ted cruz is becoming more unpopular. gallup shows he's become better known at all of that new notoriety

and then now with the ted cruz shutdown, he decided to go right along with ted cruz, but wasn't a leader't get any credit. just looks like a coward. so if the party does by some miracle go in a direction of wanting to be a governing party again, they're not going to look to marco rubio. they're going to look to someone like chris christie. if they go in the direction of anilism and sanity, which is the direction they're headed in currently, they're going to look to ted cruz so marco rubio is nowhere in this conversation. >> ted, let's talk about senator rabid paul for a moment. here's what politico says about the kentucky republican and likely 2016 contender. has defendantly maneuvered the past several weeks of shutdown politics, toeing the conservative line without alienating the rest of the party. so is it possible that ted cruz has cleared a place at the 2016 table for a kinder, maybe jebt gentler wacko bird? >> i think paul did a nice job of sort of drafting behind cruz on this. cruz made himself the front man of this fight. and honestly, you know, you get out in republican america a

and so cruz, rafael cruz has always held these views.e is very influential with respect to the son. now, look, you ask the son the question do you buy this stuff? and the son easily as politicians often say about a son of relative, he doesn't speak directly for me on these issues. what's most important about rafael cruz is he speaks directly in a way that resonates to the constituencies that ted cruz wants to hear. rafael cruz has said these kinds of things in tea party groups here. i've heard him in iowa and elsewhere. and let me tell you, you go away and talk to some of these pastors, religious pastors and populist tea party folks on the right and they'll say what's to disagree with? >> this is exactly what boehner does in the house. it's exactly what all people in the right now do. they have this rightist, far right of right ka tillon out there, this auxiliary out there. they use to it get right, right, right. if they get into power that will be part of their coalition. they do it by saying i'm not that far right, but that guy's an al

ted cruz is not looking to govern. he is looking to tear asunder and kneecap those who are trying to govern. and he certainly has said some outrageous things about the president of the united states. this is someone who voted against confirming the secretary of defense, the secretary of treasury, the secretary of state, who voted against the farm bill and has turned around and manipulated those votes and said the president is abusing his power. it's shocking. >> i think it's important to note that i went back and read cruz's senior thesis at princeton. he has been concerned about the role of the president way back to his college years. i'm completely anti-castro. so i'm with him 100% on castro. i just don't think castro has anything to do with president obama. >> i grew up in cuba under a strong military oppressive dictatorship. i think the most ominous words i have heard were the last when our president said if congress does not act, i will act unilaterally. not much different than that or the trend that i left behind

ted cruz did something very good for ted cruz and very bad for the republican party.e conservative movement now you showed him being under water with that negative 14, the reason it's not much lower than that is not enough people know him yet. the more he's getting known to the american public, the more negative his numbers become. so he became the de facto leader of this shutdown, this -- and it was chiropractor clear from the beginning that it would be a disaster for his party. he took them in that direction anyway. they were intimidated into doing it. ted cruz isn't at this moment scaring the democrats to death. he's scaring his fellow republicans to death. >> maria, is ted cruz like other states rights defenders who oppose progress? will he just fade out? >> i think that he's done a wonderful job with this gop crisis and the shutdown talking about me, me, me. that's the perfect label when it comes to the tea party movement. it's all about the individual. what he's done is he's not only seen an opportunity to become the leader of a tea party movement, but he realiz

>> i worked for jesse helms years ago and he was ted cruz before ted cruz was ted cruz, but at that pointublicans couldn't win anything. we were such a small minority, so it didn't matter if we went to extremes because we weren't going to win anyway, but then ronald reagan came along. what did helm dos? he didn't cut the republican party's knees off. he pitched in in a positive direction to grow the republican brand. that's a lesson our party needs to learn. we're competing for leadership here, and what may feel good in the base doesn't always help us achieve the things we want to achieve electorally. >> that's another way of saying ted cruz is hurting the party. >> well, he's got to learn the difference between standing for principle and standing in front of a train, and this has hurt i think the republican brand in -- you know, the republican brand, whether you like it or not, is the political expression of conservative principle, and you can't sacrifice your political gains just for purity. we loved -- we think as republicans we're a party of principle and ideas. we love freedom and so

to raphael edward cruz of texas.t singles out those who win face with bad political facts or the loss of political innocence simply deny the facts as presented. rove did it to his own election analysis team at fox. cruz is now doing it to the wall street journal and nbc. it's called blaming the messenger. meanwhile, back in the real world, the president must decide how to deal with the changing republican positions. if they offer a clean six week debt extension bill but refuse to reopen the government, does he sign it? if they do both, does he sign it? even though it brings the ransom problem back before thanksgiving. and what if the house republicans decide to extend the debt limit, reopen the government, but add a provision requiring some debt reduction. or limiting the affordable care act. does the whole idea of a six-week extension to simply create more time for republicans to pressure obama to break. i, of course, if i were the president play hardball. david corn and jonathan capehart, both msnbc contributors. i

nothing to do with ted cruz or the republicans. in fact, lay it at the house of the white house, it's their fault. >> no, look, it's absurd and there is very few awe mer cans that believe the story this is the president's fault. john boehner could open the government by passing the clean senate c.r. tonight marsha is talking about the debt and long-term deal and we agree on that. we should negotiate that. two weeks ago it had nothing to do with negotiations of the debt. it was about repeal of the obama care. >> the continuing resolution -- >> every day the republicans have realized their position is increasingly untenable and they have changed their position. so even if the president were in -- you know, even if the president had any about pi to control the republicans in the house of representatives, which, by the way, the speaker of the house doesn't have, even if the president could control the house of representatives, what would he negotiate on? >> i got to leave it there. jim heinz and marsha blackburn, thank you. >> thank yo

ted cruz is all about ted cruz right now.e's doing -- >> what are most politicians really about? 99%. >> you call them politicians, i would refer them to be elected officials. >> right. >> they forget that you're supposed to have the dual brain. if you're going to lead then you have to govern. and ted cruz is not about governing right now. he's about getting in the leadership position so he can set himself up for 2016. it may be fine for him and the people who like him but not the country. the point about ted cruz is, he's made obama care his great bet he's going to go after. his instincts might be right that obama care is potentially a disaster for the democrats and the president. the system simply didn't seem to work very well. >> i agree with him on that. >> throughout this nonsense of the last two weeks have hit on the great vulnerability. >> i am not saying that he is wrong on a lot of these issues. it's the way that he's gone about doing it they disagree with. however, that said, i know a lot of people in texas who abso

ted cruz says the debt ceiling's the way to go. cruz says his side is winning the argument.hy exactly is the gop following him off the cliff? >>> plus, the new tv unreality show, keeping up with the republicans. how do you negotiate with a party is that is dismissive of science and refuses to accept even the legitimacy of a democratic president? >>> also, usually it's the republicans who are united and democrats divided. but this time democrats are solidly behind president obama. and he hasn't given an inch. >>> let me finish tonight with what i hear people saying about the government shutdown and how they want something better. this is "hardball," the place for politics. to treat my low testosterone, my doctor and i went with axiron, the only underarm low t treatment. axiron can restore t levels to normal in about 2 weeks in most men. axiron is not for use in women or anyone younger than 18 or men with prostate or breast cancer. women, especially those who are or who may become pregnant and children should avoid contact where axiron is applied as unexpected signs of puberty

cruz led us down a path. again, i would go back, andrea, maybe when you have more national republicans on the program, when are they going to start denouncing cruz by name. we can't say government doesn't work in washington, congress is dysfunctional. no. lets talk about those responsible. it's ted cruz. >> peter king. thank you very much. >> andrea, thank you. >> tell me what you really think. thanks. thanks for being here. >>> as the shutdown drags on, things are really difficult. a lot worse for furloughed workers. today most civil servants see paychecks cut in half. this will be the last until government is funded again. in other developments at starbucks you can get an extra shot of politics with "morning joe." ceo howard schultz urging customers to sign a petition posted in the outpost around the country asking lawmakers to reopen the government. even if the shutdown continues, some national parks could open as early as tomorrow if the state governments step in and pay the cost. utah plans to open its n

let me start with the strangeness of ted cruz.ounded with the news in the gallup his negatives have doubled, he now called the wall street journal poll invalid. say he said the news is not the news. the poll results are just what, quote, an awful lot of obama supporters have to say. listen to this. >> if you seek out liberal obama supporters and ask their views, they're going to tell you they're liberal obama supporters. that does not reflect where the american public are. >> i award the first-ever karl rove award. people with facts the loss of political innocence simply deny the facts as presented. rove did it to his own election analysis team at fox. cruz is now doing it to the wall street journal and nbc. it's called blaming the messenger. meanwhile, back in the real world, the president must decide how to deal with the changing republican positions. if they offer a clean six week debt extension bill but refuse to reopen the government, does he sign it? if they do both, does he sign it? even though it brings the ransom problem

the growing anger at ted cruz. the back room republican fight over whether to make this an even bigger battle over the debt ceiling. and the stunts that republicans are pulling to make the gullible out there believe that it's the democrats who closed down the government. but let me start tonight with this. the government shutdown was shattered just hours ago by the death of a woman who just minutes before that had crashed her car into the white house gate. a city already tensed up with a compound of unpaid salaries required essential services and an uncertain future was shaken by the crash at the white house gates. a televised car chase, the violent death of a woman driver, a young child in that vehicle witnessing the horrible end. [ gunfire ] the death will no doubt become an iconic tragedy in this period of government shutdown, driven by the hatred of the president's affordable care act and the compulsion of his critics on the hard right to punish him politically. whatever mix of causes drove the woman to this da

ted cruz told you about shutting down the government. on restoring jobs and economic growth. that will remain my focus and it hoped it would be the focus of the house republicans and senate republicans joined together and united. it is just astonishing the things he says about other republicans. >> i don't think that civil war is ready to end at all. when i sat down with senator mcconnel who said he would like to have the shut downs end but when i spoke to senator cruz the next day, he wants to continue to fight into january and february. >> i tend to be on the side of numbers and in this case i think the numbers have clearly demonstrated that mitch was right and ted cruz was wrong. i think the shut down has actually improved the polling numbers for the affordable care act which is what ted cruz was out specifically to undermine. absent him launching an absurdly long filibuster, there is very little avenue for him to shut down the government from his perch in the senate. you have the house and you don't have the senate and certainly pres

nothing to do with ted cruz or the republicans. in fact, lay it at the house of the white house, it's their fault. >> no, look, it's absurd and there is very few awe mer cans that believe the story this is the president's fault. john boehner could open the government by passing the clean senate c.r. tonight marsha is talking about the debt and long-term deal and we agree on that. we should negotiate that. two weeks ago it had nothing to do with negotiations of the debt. it was about repeal of the obama care. >> the continuing resolution -- >> every day the republicans have realized their position is increasingly untenable and they have changed their position. so even if the president were in -- you know, even if the president had any about pi to control the republicans in the house of representatives, which, by the way, the speaker of the house doesn't have, even if the president could control the house of representatives, what would he negotiate on? >> i got to leave it there. jim heinz and marsha blackburn, thank you. >> thank yo

ted cruz is all about ted cruz. >> let me go here now.ow many republicans say they think they're winning here, like him, despite all the polls show americans blame the republicans for the shutdown. and all the fighting going on right now. phil gingrey said quote, there's some pain and suffering but i don't think that compares one bit to the pain and suffering of obama care. he's michele bachmann on fox this week. let's watch her in action. >> i think we will continue to hold on. ultimately the republicans are the conservatives that are going to work together to make sure that we can push back obama care. we're really very energized today. we're strong. this is about the happiest i've seen members in a long time. because we see that we're starting to win this dialogue on a national level. >> what do you make -- you're laughing. what is this? it's like a subjective therapy they're going through. if we fight this law, we're going to somehow become stronger people and that's made it worth it to the country? >> remember, michele bachmann thoug

ted cruz is all about ted cruz right now.ng -- >> what are most politicians really about? 99%. >> you call them politicians, i would refer them to be elected officials. >> right. >> they forget that you're supposed to have the dual brain. if you're going to lead then you have to govern. and ted cruz is not about governing right now. he's about getting in the leadership position so he can set himself up for 2016. it may be fine for him and the people who like him but not the country. the point about ted cruz is, he's made obama care his great bet he's going to go after. his instincts might be right that obama care is potentially a disaster for the democrats and the president. the system simply didn't seem to work very well. >> i agree with him on that. >> throughout this nonsense of the last two weeks have hit on the great vulnerability. >> i am not saying that he is wrong on a lot of these issues. it's the way that he's gone about doing it they disagree with. however, that said, i know a lot of people in texas who absolutely

ted cruz says the debt ceiling's the way to go. cruz says his side is winning the argument.hy exactly is the gop following him off the cliff? >>> plus, the new tv unreality show, keeping up with the republicans. how do you negotiate with a party is that is dismissive of science and refuses to accept even the legitimacy of a democratic president? >>> also, usually it's the republicans who are united and democrats divided. but this time democrats are solidly behind president obama. and he hasn't given an inch. >>> let me finish tonight with what i hear people saying about the government shutdown and how they want something better. this is "hardball," the place for politics. we all share. a better life for your family, a better opportunity for your business, a better legacy to leave the world. we have always believed in this pursuit, striving to bring insight to every investment, and integrity to every plan. we are morgan stanley. and we're ready to work for you. at a ford dealer with a little q and a for fiona. tell me fiona, who's having a big tire event? your ford dealer. wh

but ted cruz is for real.e's not just a nightmare but out there this weekend in the broad scary daylight of iowa. he's saying he has nothing to be afraid of. he denies he caused serious economic damage with the government shutdown even though economists who deal in real numbers say he did. he said the real demons are those moderate republicans who finally ended the shutdown on the edge of the government default. senator cruz is the right wing zealot of the season. his attacks were relentless and have stirred resistance to the health care program. he has hurt economic growth. even as he campaigns on a promise of, guess what, economic growth. he reminds me of the kid who kills his parents and begs the judge mercy on the ground he's an orphan. a perfect candidate for halloween week. howard fine and david corn. both are msnbc political analysts. anyway, next time you hear someone like ted cruz say the shutdown was worth it, don't believe it. usa today on the cover surveyed economists. only 7% say the economists ar

ted cruz is taking the stage.y his speech for you, actually we'll stay with it right now because ted cruz the republican senator from texas who has been instrumental in republican efforts over the last several weeks in the shutdown he is about to speak to the people in this audience, a socially conservative audience, talking about fighting against same-sex marriage and abortion. listen to senator cruz. >> with us for you, who can you against you?! >> thank you. i received that blessing. >> amen! >> and let me say to each and every one of you, i am inspired by you. >> we're inspired by you! >> i am invigorated by your passion for this great country! now as inspired as i am, i will do my very best to speak for less than 21 hours. >> we're glad you did! >> but you will know i'm near wrapping up when i begin to read "the cat in the hat." i am here with a word of encouragement and excitation. these are extraordinary time. the challenges facing this country are unlike any we've ever seep. you look at our constitution, y

he calls ted cruz a fraud more than once. i don't know if you remember anything quite like this within a party of this kind of attack ing it's just beens a stonicing to me. >> i remember some of this but it always happened within the democratic party. but what is really striking is that if the collection that steve smith suggests, you're going to need a lot more of the non-right wing republicans. they have been incredibly timt they were two of the only people willing to say hold on this is a really bad strady. that they just hang back and are silent. and they cannot let themselves get intimidated any more. the cost of what's when you don't stand up and say this is dumb. >> very good to be with you. >> coming up, the tea party wants you to know that when they yell racist chants and call him a muslim it's not that they're racist. they just want a white president. that's why you take charge of your future. your retirement. ♪ ameriprise advisors can help you like they've helped millions of others. listening, planning, working one

ryan. >> ted cruz. >> ted cruz it is.point question, this democratic congressman who served in the house from 1965 to 1995 and led the chamber from 19 -- basil. >> tom foley. >> passed away friday after months in hospicecare at the age of 84. >> that is correct. an eninstant bonus question. foley served as speaker of the house, who was the he succeeded by as speaker? >> newt gingrich. >> newt gingrich is correct. another 100 points for basil. next question, it was announced carrie washington will host "saturday night live." washington stars in what fiction? >> scandal. >> 100 points for liz winstead. >> 44 billion, 34 billion or 24 billion? liz. >> 24 billion. >> 24 billion according to standard and mores, how much did the government lose in the shutdown. correct. 100 point question. in her first campaign since leaving the obama administration, hillary clinton will make an appearance supporting what democratic -- basil. time. ryan. >> terry mccallive, the democratic gubernatorial candidate. the end of round one. we have a

and that one man was ted cruz. and ted cruz came out into the hall outside the senate after the deal in the senate side had been announced. and far from seeming cowed. far from seeming defeated, he seemed empowered. and within the ranks, perhaps dwindling, but within the ranks of the tea party, he's a new hero. he may be the emperor of a dwindling kingdom, but he is out there taking it to the grassroots from now until the end of the new year. >> does he still have the power to ignite government terrorism? can he terrorize members of congress and say all i have to do is point my finger at you and threaten you with a primary opponent and you'll do what i tell you to do? >> no. i think not. i know he's going to be out there for the next couple month, and i agree we're going to be facing similar scenarios in january and february, but i got a sense that the senate as a whole is going to surround ted cruz. and they're going to say either you play ball to some extent or we're all going to come after you. that's sort of wh