amy: dave zirin, your final thoughts? so beautifully and eloquently. have little to add except i think it is very impmportant we keep in mimind today and hold to our hearts the bryant family, the survivors and everybody who is processing this grief in their own way. it is important we not police people's greed. it is important instead we listen to what everybody has to say because this is something that is affecting people in a way that is far broader than basketball. amy: i want to thank you both for being with us. fatima goss graves, you are going to be staying with us as we talk about what is happening this last week with the first sitting president in history to antichoiceaddress an march, the major so-called march for life and washington post of dave zirin, thank you for being with us,s, sports editor for the nation magazine. fatima goss graves, president of the national women's law center. stay with us. ♪ [music break] amy: this is democracy now!, democracynow.org, the war and peace report. i'm amy goodman. we are broadcasting from park city, uta

bring in now dave zirin, sports editor at "the nation" and on the phone we have kavitaa davidson, sports writer for the athletic. thank you both for being here. dave, it has been said by president obama there was, unfortunately, an inability because of today's catastrophe, no second act for kobe bryant. >> yeah. >> but one might argue he was through his second act. we just don't know what his third, fourth and fifth act would have been. >> well, i don't want to overinterpret what president obama meant, but this idea of a second act had a lot to do with the trail that it looked like kobe bryant was going to blaze moving forward. the idea -- he won an oscar in 2018 for best animated short. the idea that he wanted to take the fame and the fortune that he had accrued as a basketball player and become something of a mogul, to become a creator and a creative in the world of hollywood, and even people like lebron james were looking toward kobe to blaze that trail for that next act. then there was also the next act of what was going to happen in terms of gianna, his daughter, and this idea of ko

-- this statement was made about 15 years ago now, maybe 17 years ago, and i'm going to credit dave zirin here. i didn't realize this. dave, you can fill me in. he interviewed an activist men can stop rape. and the man who ran that organization credited kobe bryant with writing the best apology of a man accused of sexual assault. again, the accusation was the accusation. it didn't lead to any criminal charges, but he did acknowledge that at least in the victim's eyes there was not consent. and i think we have to allow for growth, and maybe we don't want our villains to grow, we want them to just stay and wear the black hat all their lives. and we can do that from the basketball perspective, but if you take -- if you took any measure of the man and what he became, and we say hard work -- i just want to point this out. it is true. he didn't come into the league as this guy was not going to be zion williamson or lebron james necessarily. he was the 13th overall pick. >> it's crazy to me he was the 13th overall pick. >> and charlotte apparently said, well, we can't really use you right now. o