best known for defending george zimmerman and lapd officer david clinger who currently teaches criminaltice at the university of missouri in st. louis. so do you believe the police officer was justified in shooting this man? >> you know, i don't think that's clear. when you look at a case like this, the question remains the same. was the force justified and when you look at the use of force policy in new jersey, that officer had to believe he was in imminent immediate danger of death or great bodily injury, anderson, and the bottom line is he's getting out of the car, they've already retrieved the gun they've found in the glove compartment and his hands are up. i've said it time and time again, hands up is the universal gesture for surrender. why if someone is surrendering, why do you have to shoot to kill? >> sunny, it's interesting. we talked about race a lot in the wake of ferguson but this shooting, the officer is black, the passenger killed also black. do you think that changes some how the way people look at this? >> you know, i don't think it should. certainly many times we talk

david clinger, professor of criminal at the university of missouri and author of the book "into the killop's eye view of deadly force. a former police officer. doctor, what did you find about american police shooting down black people? >> well the study that you refer to is a study that was done in a lab in washington state university. and to make a very long story short, we had a bunch of volunteers, including police officers, citizens and military people who went in to what we call an immemberrive environment where they looked at scenarios being played out and it turns out that the participants were slower to shoot when a black suspect portrayed on a screen presented a deadly threat as compared to white and hispanic suspects. >> did they say why they were slower to shoot? >> they didn't say. that wasn't part of the study. they weren't debriefed. the working hypothesis is that perhaps, what's going on is that people are very attuned to the facts about concerns about racial bias and prejudice if they reacted too quickly to a threat from a black suspect and so they waited to make sure tha