effort to ban oleg deripaska coming to the united states by denying him a visa. nine years down the road, nine years after that in 2015, that same justice department official, bruce ohr, was actually instrumental in bringing deripaska to the united states on purpose. they'd been blocking him from sitting foot here in this country since 2006, but in 2015 they decided they would give him a visa and invite him over. why? according to dramatic reporting from ken vogel and matt rosenberg, the reason they allowed deripaska to come here after all those years of banning him is because they wanted to have a little talk with him. they wanted to try to flip him. they wanted to try to persuade him to start working for u.s. intelligence and law enforcement. they wanted him to start informing against vladimir putin and russian organized crime. quote, u.s. justice department official bruce ohr attended the meeting with deripaska in 2015, during which time the americans pressed deripaska on connections between russian organized crime and mr. putin's government. they were trying

the americans pressed deripaska on connections between russian organized crime and mr. putin's government. they were trying to flip him. it did not work. deripaska refused another meeting and reportedly told the kremlin about that failed approach from u.s. law enforcement that was in 2015. they apparently went back at him again in 2016 and trying again and again. but now this president and his republican supporters in congress are apparently poised to try to destroy that justice department official by name. we are told to expect a leak of classified information or the declassification of information related to bruce ohr's work. and they will presumably use that declassified information selectively to try to make him look terrible somehow. all indications are that they will try to use bruce ohr in wh whatever they're about to declassify on him as a means of declassing the russia investigation. the top expert on russian organized crime who has been pushing all these uncomfortable questions about putin and organized crime and the russian government. imagine how happy they

and it was done in the hope of, quote, getting made whole again with deripaska. what does that mean? it's clear that manafort was proposing clthrough kilimnik th they give deripaska. that's the outlines of theory, but we don't have the concrete stuff to back it up where this cooperation might come in. >> i have to pause it there. i encourage everybody go read the piece in the atlantic. it really is a great sort of tutorial. it gets you up to speed to what's coming next, and your book. we look forward to that. >> thank you. >> techi is taking over all of us. >>> up ahead, the carolina coast already devastated by florence. we're going to live to our nbc crews all over the area to show us what's happening next. plus an updated track from al roker. welcome to the place... where people go to learn about their medicare options before they're on medicare. come on in. you're turning 65 soon? yep. and you're retiring at 67? that's the plan! it's also a great time to learn about an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. here

the "times" met they met with deripaska in 2015 and again in 2016, when fbi agents showed up at deripaska's door investigating ties between russia and the trump campaign and mr. paul manafort was the link for the trump campaign. and joining me is a natasha bertrand and from bloomberg news, kevin cirilli and from the daily beast, francis fluid. so we have a lot of people. manafort and russia. and how are we connecting this dot based on the reporting. >> this underscores how important deripaska is to the entire manafort story. he did business with paul manafort between 2006 and 2015 and he would have been very useful in telling the fbi, for example, what manafort was doing overseas what his connections to oligarchs was. and deripaska and manafort had a falling out and he was in debt by the time he joined the trump campaign so it makes sense that the fbi, especially in september of 2016, would have wanted to ask deripaska, why were you talking through an intermediary, the associate of paul manafort, about getting briefings on the trump campaign in exchange for debt relief for paul manafort. wa

because oleg deripaska and other russian oligarchs and other foreigners come to the united states. they have investments here. they own property here. they have a variety of interests here. and when they're here in the united states, they may be contacted by our law enforcement authorities, and they may be approached for the purposes of our law enforcement agencies gathering information about crimes happening in the united states. it's the most normal thing in the world. what the central intelligence agency does is collect intelligence overseas. and sometimes the cia and fbi work together. but if it's here in the united states, the fbi, department of justice, they have the lead. and so it's not unusual. i read that report by the "new york times." it's not unusual at all that department of justice, the fbi, would be approaching a foreigner on u.s. soil in an attempt to gather information about potential crimes being committed affecting the united states. >> evan, always appreciate -- ben, did you want to weigh in? >> yeah, there is, however, something highly unusual here. >> which?

after those e-mails running back and forth where he's trying to be made whole for his work for d deripaskangressman schiff, i thank you for being here tonight. congressman schiff is talking about there in terms of the joint defense agreement, it's interesting it was only two times this week when bob woodpered's book came out that there was a joint defense agreement that involved the president. and according to book 35 wnl7 p witnesses that might have been called by the mueller investigation. no, no, i'm not part of that agreement -- and the president's lawyer jewel yagiuliani says th president was part of that agreement. how that might affect negotiations over pardoning, the dangling of a pardon and how that might affect strategy going forward of manafort's now required testimony could go any number of directions. all right, we'll be right back. stay with us. directions all right, we'll be right back stay with us which is why esurance hired me, dennis quaid, as their spokesperson because apparently, i'm highly likable. see, they know it's confusing. i literally have no idea what i'm gettin

clinton, manafort is reaching out in the other direction to the kremlin through people like oleg deripaskaremlin help, information about the trump campaign in exchange for money, money he thinks he's owed from ukraine. so i would like to know -- i think bob mueller would like to know -- i think the country would like to know what happened at this cross section where the campaign is reaching out to the russians, the russians are reaching out to the campaign, the campaign chairman is in a pivotal place to tell us what happened to all of those communications before, during, and after the trump tower meeting, before, during, and after those e-mails running back and forth where he's trying to be made whole for his work for deripaska. >> congressman adam schiff, the top democratic member of the house intelligence committee, thank you, sir. i appreciate you being here tonight. >>> congressman schiff is talking about there in terms of the joint defense agreement, it's interesting. it was only tuesday this week when bob woodward's book came out, where we had this first claim in print that there was

the times report that investigators were hoping for information from deripaska.ut he told the investigators their thoeories were, quote, preposterous. >> when we come back, how molly tibbetts murder is being exploited. we are talking about illegal gra immigration here. stay close. one bottle has the grease cleaning power of three bottles of this other liquid. a drop of dawn and grease is gone. thethe more you know theme, commute is worth it. for all the work you pour into this place, you sure get a lot more out of it. you and that john deere tractor... so versatile, you can keep dreaming up projects all the way home. it's a longer drive. but just like a john deere, it's worth it. nothing runs like a deere. now you can own a 1e sub-compact tractor for just 99 dollars a month. learn more at your john deere dealer. uhp. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! ♪ we'll make heaven

go deeper and are saying basically that ohr was involved in trying to flip this russian oligarch, deripaska. you know, got a lot of money, lot of connections to vladimir putin, and it's interesting that now you have somebody inside the justice department in bruce ohr who was working with a man in deripaska who is known as putin's oligarch. so you hear the president saying there's collusion on the other side, yet it doesn't seem to get any traction. >> that's right. the longer this investigation goes on, the more that we find detrimental information about the doj and fbi in the way they handled the investigation and less detrimental information about the president. bruce ohr created a back channel with christopher steele who of course was compiling this dossier funded by the democrats. when the fbi had already said they didn't find steele to be credible in that he had had improper contact with the media. so everything in this investigation seems to be undermining the president's point that it's been biased against him from the start. bruce ohr's contacts, the peter strzok and lisa page text

. >> he was offering briefings to -- >> to deripaska who he owed a lot of money to.e's a very important figure in all of this. and mueller's strategy worked. mueller took old charges that had nothing to do with the campaign way before and used it to squeeze him. and it worked. he's flipped. >> jon ward, if you are the president now watching all of this unfold, what is your next move? is it to pardon paul manafort? is it not? i mean, it's like what do you do? >> that was one of my favorite insults in the woodward book. he calls rudy giuliani a baby like several times. >> just imagine you're trump, jon. just -- >> yes, i do it every day. >> should have been the audio book. >> they should have brought you in for that. you read that quote. yeah, but -- sorry. >> we can't rule out that he pardons manafort, but i think he'd want to see what happens first. >> impeachment. >> but i've given up trying to predict trump. this is a big development. but i don't think we're -- i think democrats also need to wait and see. let's not get too far ahead of ourselves with talk of impeac

the times reports that deripaska was the subject of many of the contacts between steele and ohr betweenmp has repeatedly claimed that the contact between ohr and steele proves there's a conspiracy against him, but even the president himself acknowledged in this tweet yesterday that the work between the two men began before he announced his candidacy. >> joining me onset, nbc legal analyst danny cevallos. help me understand why the president would think that any kind of work between bruce ohr, who is officially tasked with investigating and tack manying russian organized crime, and christopher steele, a former british spy, makes the case for a deep state conspiracy but at the same time undermines the president's claim there is a team state conspiracy against him? >> prosecutors and law enforcement work hand in hand with criminals to catch other criminals. if anyone out there is saying, this is a shock to me or clutching their pearls, then i've got news for you, they've been doing it for a long time. if you ask the doj about it, they would say, well, yeah, you want us to catch all of the

they're alluding to one example, oleg deripaska, katie, also involved in this story, by the way, of fbiort to try to flip an oligarch, billionaire, that is very close to the upper echelon of power there in russia. potentially later on linking to the questions about russia and the trump campaign, katie. >> right. yeah, so apparently dare positiveca russia was looking at to see if they would cooperate to provide information as some type of conspiracy or coordination between the russians and the trump campaign. what's remarkable, though, richard, is if i had to give my loyalty to either vladimir putin, to whom i owe a lot of my financial success, or the trump campaign, or more accurately, the american government, i think i'm giving my loyalty to vladimir putin. in fact, what we learned from this "new york times" piece, richard, is that apparently he reported the contact with the fbi and the feds to the kremlin. so, you know, i didn't see him running to strike a deal. he doesn't live in the united states, like people like constantine, who doesn't live in the united states. they're not here.

next trial, about whether he has shared those e-mails with russia and he uses the initials of oleg deripaska who is literally he is indebted to for millions of dollars. we know that he volunteered to join the campaign when he was dead broke trying to live like a kardashian. >> to be fair he wasn't broke, he was deeply in debt. >> deeply in debt. >> broke would be much richer than what he was. >> fair point. so the point is april he's looking to trade his position in the trump administration through e-mails with the former russian military intelligence person with a putin oligarch who, by the way, was sanctioned for his involvement in the 2016 campaign. there are too many facts of connection here just by what we know publicly not to believe that paul manafort does know something. >> and you're making the key point from a prosecutorial perspective, that's not the ceiling, that's the floor, mueller has more than that and, michael, is using that to push for cooperation. speak to the points that maya raises, the desperation manafort had in this situation which is why he may have been trying to ma

manafort is just one link going back to deripaska and possibly back to moscow.chael cohen, and all the other players in there, all have their own independent links. if i were mueller, i would be going after these individuals, not just for their testimony but what their testimony can bring in terms of documentation. so he can really seal the deal. >> all right, especially, we know, again, these talks that cohen is having now, to what extent, we'll see. okay, glenn, stay with us. malcolm, craig, thanks to you. >>> now to a real life threatening situation in the carolinas. floodwaters from tropical depression florence are spilling over into neighborhoods forcing residents from their homes. we'll have a live report from the cape fear region where all eyes are on the rapidly rising river. this is john van dine with pactel cellular in los angeles. well, welcome to the demo... (danny dichter) in 1989, a new wireless technology was being tested for the first time ever. it allowed more users to connect at the same time, while on the move. other wireless carriers consider

we also know that every time the fbi had contact with deripaska, he reported to the kremlin.low percentage shot in the begin, but it's what one does in law enforcement and intelligence. you've got to try and find sources who know about what is going on. those people tend to be the least likely to tell you anything. >> what is bruce ohr's connection to the dossier? >> his connection is that he has known steele since 2007. there is a whole world of kind of people who are focused on russian organized crime, russian intelligence. ohr was among them. ohr's wife nellie was among them. chris steele was among them. over a breakfast in july 2016 in washington, steele was passing through town. they were having breakfast. what we hear is ohr apparently asked hey, what are your working on? he told him about the dossier. they kept in touch about this. i'm hearing this from steele, but they also know that independently of that entire connection, steele was trying to get that dossier into the hands of overs in the fbi, that he had been hired to do this work. what he found he thought was inc