dr. hansen, i found like-mindedness in your testimony. but it seems like you are a strong proponent of nuclear energy. you used sweden as an example and most of their energy is nuclear energy. so i find us to be like-minded. >> i am a strong proponent of carbon-free energy. and letting the market chose the energies. we ask not be specifying that electricity has to come from renewable energy. let's the alternatives compete. it is likely nuclear would compete well. it isn't going to be easy in the united states because it has been made difficult and takes so long to build a nuclear plant. that is why we should work with china because they will build to scale and drive down the unit cost. and then it can circle back to the united states, if in fact, we want to have more nuclear power, and i think we should. >> and i found your comments, if your nation was ever to get to a point where it was going to put a price on carbon, the carbon tax would be a much better way than the rube gold berg mechanisms the senate looks at a few years ago. if that

dr. hansen, please let me finish. these are the stated goals of president obama and his energy secretary to get rates to skyrocket or gasoline prices to quadruple. do you disagree with those policies? saidrtainly -- what i have -- there are health costs, there are climate costs. you are dumping all of those. >> i understand. this is my question. i understand. i am talking about what families would feel and wisconsin in terms of their energy prices, their modeling energy bill would necessarily skyrocket -- monthly energy bill would necessarily skyrocket. . agree we're all environmentalist. i did my water out of a well. i love to fish. i love the outdoors. >> what you are saying is blatantly false. what you can easily show it if you put an honest flat fee on carbon, 65% of the people will get more money than they pay in increased electricity. model shows that very clearly. only the high-end people will pay more. >> i come from manufacturing background. is it the true b want to manufacture goods, you get is it true that

dr. hansen did you basically concur with that? >> cap-and-trade and i would not advocate indeed would cause an increase in costs. what we need is an economically sensible approach and that is to put a simple fee on carbon. >> how would that prevent prices from skyrocketing like cap-and-trade would? you talked about it dividend system. you are going to impose costs on energy. will that increase the price of energy? >> it will impose costs on carbon-based fuels, yes. presently those fuels, the costs are there but they are borne by the public. >> president obama's energy secretary steven chu made the comment that somehow we have to figure out how to get our castling prices up to the level and i think you made the comment when our gasoline prices were below $2. let me finish my question. european gas prices were $8 a gallon so these were the stated goals. mr. hansen please let me finish. these are the stated goals of president obama and the energy secretaries to get gasoline prices to basically quadrupled. do you disagree with those p

dr. hansen along the same, somewhat the same lines. i understand the seriousness of climate change but is it really true that canada tapping the tar sand reserves would be a quote in your words game over for the climate is you have claimed? isn't that an exaggeration of the threat posed by this one project? couldn't be lower emissions and other sectors to compensate and i would like to hear from both of you. >> thank you sir. the world watches what the united states does and in proportion the keystone pipeline has become a litmus test for how people will determine what the united states, how the united states presents itself in the energy -- the global energy arena. and i think that -- and i said that in the context of a lot of talk about energy independence. energy sufficiency i am for but to use energy as something that we treasure and not export and not play in the leadership role that we have been blessed with i think is a tragic strategic maching -- mistake on the global pet playing field so the decision on the pipeline particular

dr. hansen is an expert? yeah. any fair-minded american would say that that gentlemen is as credentialed as anybody when it comes to climate change. so this is the mentality you're dealing with when you ear tealing with republicans on climate change. now on the flip side, senator barbara boxer of california made a great case against the pipeline. she highlighted health concerns and dangerous by-products that are associated with tar sands oil. >> the national nurses united representing 185,000 nurses have joined me and senator whitehouse in calling for a thorough health impact study on our people, the people of america, when you look at the immediate 45% in importation of tar sands. this is pet coke, mr. chairman. you have to take a look at this, because a lot-it is going to be stored around our nation. already we've seen it coming. this is just a sample of what mesh's going to look like when you see this tar sands filthy, dirty oil. this is what remains of it after it's refined. and it is stored just like this. we

dr. hansen is the scientist, he's the expert, he is spot on. now, senator landrieu, i'm not going to call you a liar on national television, but i'm very, very curious -- what's your source? can you take us to your source? because you said that it's the cleanest barrel of oil produced in north america. that's an unbelievable statement. now who are you quoting, senator? well, "the ed show" producers, we called senator landreieu's office and asked them to produce the source. who is she quoting? they have yet to get back to us. could it be russ gurling, ceo of transcanada? in fact, when you look at the research we've done on this, nobody from transcanada has even gone so far to say that it's the cleanest barrel of oil produced in north america. we're making some headway here. tarsands oil is one of the most toxic fossil fuels on the planet. oil company -- do you know what they've got to do? they have to heat the sands with toxic additives to extract this oil from the ground. mining tarsands oil creates three times more carbon emissions than conven

we are not necessarily a lot of the heating is baked in you're right about that but dr hansen talks about how if we halted emissions and we need to get to zero emissions let's talk about that right if we hold emissions by twenty fifteen. that would cause carbon dioxide to decline to three hundred fifty parts per million by twenty one hundred we could draw worldwide i'm talking worldwide yes in by two thousand and fifteen he's in a year and a half well he's just stating that that is going to happen no i don't think twenty fifteen is going to happen let's let's think of the next step he said if we wait twenty years to get down to zero emissions then we're going to have a decline to three hundred fifty parts per million by twenty three hundred. so this isn't one hundred years this yes that's that's that's how much is is going to be baked in so so all right let's say we can't do about twenty fifty let's say we can do it by twenty twenty let's say we can do it by twenty thirty we need to do it as quickly as humanly possible is the point and you know because every you know additional bit of car

dr. hansen and mr. brune have been both arrested in protest to the keystone pipeline. i can't guarantee it, but i hope this proves to be a more comfortable experience. finally, our final panelist today is karen alderman, president and c.e.o. of the institute for 21st century at the u.s. chamber of commerce. she previously served as assistant secretary for policy and international affairs at the u.s. department of energy and deputy assistant administrator for latin america at usaid. we thank you for joining us. your full statements will be included in the record, without objection. and i ask you to summarize your statements in around five minutes or so-so that the members can have a dialogue with you. i'll ask you to testify in the order in which i introduced you. general jones. >> thank you, mr. chairman and ranking member corker, it's a pleasure to be here today. members of the committee. it's an honor to be here to share my views with you about the national interest at stake and the keystone x.l. pipeline demmings. thank you for making my -- determination. thank you