former prosecutors, elliott williams and harry litman, thank you, let me start with you harry.orting about how intensely jack smith is looking at this meeting, what kind of potential charges, if there are charges that come with the meeting, we don't know if there will be but if there are, what is your guess what it would be, conspiracy, obstruction, what do you think? >> yes and yes, but interesting he's focused on it, we know he is even recently. because rudy giuliani comes on bended knee and he can ask them anything and there's a lot of focus and 2 days of eight hour meetings on this meeting. as you say caitlin, what precedes and postdates the meeting are important, what precedes is just storming in unannounced, that's what makes team normal rush in, then we have six hours of screaming, over theories that actually they don't implement, martial law, to get the machines or making sydney powell these special counsel, but then after is when trump goes and does his infamous tweet, it is going to be wild, about january 6, two things you can say about the meeting, first is that trum

i want to bring in elliott williams, we also have john miller, our chief law enforcement and intelligence analyst and james schultz, who is a trump white house lawyer. gentlemen, it's great to have you tonight. elliott, as though the original allegations of mishandling top secret, classified documents weren't enough, these are worse. these alleged attempting to alter, destroy, mutilate, and conceal evidence. am i right that legally these are? worse >> it's bad, and if you look at the timeline that is laid out in the indictment, it's after they received a grudge draft grandeur isa peÑa. there are notit the feds are looking for information that is at mar-a-lago. it is then at that point that they say, you know what, there is probably incriminating information on our security footage. let's work together and get it deleted. in fact, there is at least one phone call from the president to the head of maintenance, i believe, it was his role at mar-a-lago. they speak on the telephone and then there after a number of employees get together to delete security footage. it is the kind of, literally

. >>> we want to bring in elliott williams.back drop is the doj has its hands full. right now jack smith is potentially awaiting word from a grand jury on whether donald trump will be indicted for a third time, this over his efforts to overturn the 2020 election. the doj is trying to appear impartial. in a perfect world, one case does not impact the other, but in a pr case, when they're being attacked over this alleged sweetheart deal, how much do donald trump's legal woes play into the messaging behind the hunter biden case. >> that's an important point. they are independence deals, and they've made it clear. david weiss was kept on to maintain a continuity. jack smith, who is overseeing the donald trump investigation, was put in place as special counsel to remove the question of conflicts. they are fully independent, and any other justice department, the mere fact there's two high-profile cases doesn't mean they're handled in the same way. you used the term pr. it's still a matter that the justice department has to confront,

. >> with us now, cnn legal analyst elliott williams.t, what do you make of this effort by the former president's attorneys to delay the trial? >> you know anderson, there is a problem here, and that is whenever a defendant is accused of a crime, a number rights are attached that defended. and prosecutors have to be very, very careful when it comes to pushing back on things like trial dates, or whether somebody or who their counsel's, and so on. because those are the kinds of things that can actually lead to conviction being thrown out down the road. so, yes, he very well is trying to delay this case. but you have to be very careful as a prosecutor to not at least give the appearance of overstepping and getting in the way of it defendants right to have a fair trial. >> the trump team brings up discovery throughout the filings as a reason for delaying the trial, which is the process of gathering evidence to prove the case. how long would discovery in a case like this typically take? >> you know, congressman golden was exactly correct, whi

. >>> with us now is legal analyst and former federal prosecutor elliott williams.oining us. first let's get to the likelihood of all of this. what is the likelihood that judge cannon will agree to postponing this? really trump is asking until after the presidential election. >> yeah, that is a political question, not a legal one. certainly any criminal defendant has a right to a fair trial at a reasonable time. trying to postpone it until after the election i think poses a few problems for president trump. i think number one, when it comes to juries, the law anticipates that jurors can be fair if instructed as to what their duties and obligations are. a lot of jurors say i could never hold this person in judgment and then the judge sprains what exp explains what and then the juror will agree to it. so i think that they can find a fair juror in a county of 1.1 million people. the other question is that trump is quite literally the most famous person on the planet, or at least one of them. whether tried prior to the election or not, his fame will still be an issue. s

. >>> let's get some perspective on this from cnn legal analyst elliott williams, a former deputy assistantral. what information, new information will you be looking for in this new affidavit? >> reporter: well, the reason why documents are sealed in the first place is number one, to protect the integrity of an investigation. number two, to protect the evidence to make sure that, say, somebody being investigated doesn't flush something down the toilet or try to flee. you don't really have as much of a basis for believing that now. number one, the charges are public. number two, the name of the charges are public and number three, the person charged in the former president, we know who they are. there's less of a basis for keeping some of this sealed. i think what we will look for are maybe some of the information that the justice department was relying on when they got the search warrant in the first place. so as kaitlan said, we sort of know what was in the search warrant but i think this will be further details. >> why not have release that had in the first place? >> again, it was an open

cnn legal analyst elliott williams, senior political analyst john avlon, and senior political commentator scott jennings. all right, elliott, did the judges objection have to do with the terms of the deal, whether it was fair or too lenient? or does she have a problem with it under the constitution, under the law? >> all of the above. now, look, judges can -- and they do have a -- right we talked about this, i think, yesterday as well, judges can not approve plea agreements if they think that the something doesn't smell, right if the government is not being fair, and the whole point of plea agreements is as a general matter, is to ensure that the defendants rights are protected. he knows what he's pleading guilty to, that he can't eventually, down the road, be charge again for something that he sort of thinks he didn't at. the whole point here was that she felt that, perhaps, that gun diversion thing might have set him up for peach future prosecution is in a way that violated his feet rise as a defendant. we probably a cautious thing to do. i've never seen it happen before. >> i was going

. >>> here with me, cnn's evan perez, cnn's kristen holmes and former prosecutor elliott williams. evan, am i being too cynical in my expression of skepticism that it de oliveira went down there without a florida-based attorney, maybe it wasn't an accident, because it automatically delays things? >> it is very hard to find lawyers in florida. very difficult. we saw -- we saw walt nauta, you know, eat up essentially a month. >> exactly. >> in between the indictment and the time he was finally brought for arraignment. today the judge pushed back when de oliveira's attorney asked for a hearing some it time at the end of august, and he said no, let's work on august 10th. so every day of delay counts. every bit of it will add up. the former president's overall goal has made it very clear is to have this happen until -- wait until after the election to actually go to trial. we'll see whether the judge, judge cannon, is going to be tolerant of this, but we know what the strategy is. >> and inside the substance of this is, of course, what we learned late last week about the superseding ind

joining me now is two former federal prosecutors, joveef moreno and elliott williams.e boxes. then ae -- allegedly tried to gt two underlings to delete the server that has the video footage. and then in the indictment there is also a discussion of loyalty, about whether the two individuals who were a part of this alleged scheme were loyal. if you're a prosecutor, this is straight out of like the fiction books here. >> abby, this was already a strong case. by virtue of the simple fact that the boxes of documents were in mar-a-lago. that is the case. now i assume that donald trump, if this went to trial, i assume what he'll really play hard on is the argument that well i thought they were declassified. i thought i was allowed to have them. i thought it was okay that i had them in this compound that is guarded by the secret service. well that argument has already had some legal problems. it is not a great argument. but it is sort of decimated now by these obstruction allegations. because, okay, the response would be if you thought you had the legal right of possession of

>>> i want to discuss further right now with our political and legal experts elliott williams you'reur legal analyst right now. as far as we know, trump's legal team has not responded to this request that he appear and answer questions before the federal grand jury. what do you anticipate? what do you expect? >> he can. he has the choice to go before the federal grand jury as a means of making his case. when prosecutors give a target letter, it provides the defendant with an opportunity to come in a few days later andlessen the sting as it were here. sort of talk through why he thinks he might not be charged or should not be charged or so on. odds are, i think the former president does not go into this grand jury he doesn't gain a ton by doing so. and if he's going to be charged with a crime down the road, it wouldn't make much sense for him to come in. i would guess he wouldn't and would make a political bluster about it. >> i suspect you're right. andrew mccabe you're the former deputy director of the fbi. which facet of the january 6th criminal investigation do you think may bring

elliott williams, you're a former prosecutor. what led to this deal unraveling?so wolf, when anyone pleads guilty in federal court, that defendant is waiving his right to a trial and waiving any number of other rights. it's really important that someone be able to say he understands what he's giving up. and i think the judge seemed to find that the parties weren't in agreement to all of that. that they number one, have not fairly struck a deal, and number two, that perhaps hunter biden might have been waiving some rights that he didn't know about. you know, this is kind of a big blunder on the part of the parties, both the government and hunter biden's attorneys, to walk into court today and not been clear about what they were agreeing to and what charges were going away. so it's sort of egg on a lot of people's faces. >> we will find out. david, the fact that we have been reporting on all of this about hunter biden can't be welcome news for the president. >> certainly not. i don't think anyone would put in their playbook how to run a re-election campaign that yo

here to share reporting, jeff zeleny, paula reid, and former federal prosecutor elliott williams. happy friday -- today's not monday, friday. i don't mean to care you out there. it is friday. let's look at one of the things that aileen cannon said. she said the government's schedule is atypically scheduled and meaning the prosecution wanted to do it by the end of this calendar year. she's saying too fast. >> i was in florida and she pressed the lawyers to give one example of a case like this that had gone to trial that quickly. it was clear that she was really skeptical of the idea of doing this in december, but she also was not buying the defense argument that it was too soon to even set a trial date. the defense attorneys were adamant, they believe it was unfair to do any sort of trial before the 2024 election. they said it was too soon to set a date. here she's splitting the difference. >> not uncommon for a judge to move a trial date forward, set a date, but it's also not uncommon for the date to slip further. i think we can all agree that this is not going to trial in may. >>

. >>> here with me in studio paula reid, evan perez, and former federal prosecutor elliott williams. so paula, these new details really put a little bit more meat on the bones here about why they took the steps that they did when they tried to seek that search warrant for the search. and it has to do with the surveillance footage that shows movement in places where they had previously said they had done a search, found everything, they'd given it back, and clearly the feds believe that was not the case. >> that's exactly right. it's amazing how these recordings, voice or surveillance footage, has played such a key role in this criminal prosecution. and now we know that they knew even before they searched mar-a-lago, they were able to see these boxes moving in and out, who was moving them, right? and over the next year, matched what they saw on the tape to what they were told in interviews. i also think it's notable that flash forward a year later, the indictment doesn't make any mention it really of the surveillance footage. we know they were asking people if it was possible they don

more on what to expect from today's proceedings is cnn legal analyst, former federal prosecutor elliott williams kidding about i'm very intrigued to see what happens today in large part because we just haven't heard from judge aileen cannon. a lot of discussion about her, what she may or may not do. what should we expect today? >> not only have we not heard from judge aileen cannon. the parties have not. they have not sat down and met with her in person. let's talk through today is. this would be a relatively simple, straight forward pretrial conference, status conference is what lawyers call it. unfortunately this is not any other trial. and they're going to be handling a few thing. number one, what are the procedures governing classified documents. that's going to be the big sticky one today. do the prosecutes have to turn over to defense. what can they do in the form of summaries. who sees it and so on. that will be a legal fight over the next couple days. scheduling, when is this dang thing happening? and i think that's a big fight. maybe we get an answer on it today. probably not. but we'll

. >> as we know, elliott williams, the january 6th probe has been sprawling, and it's been going on for months and months and months. does that make it harder for the prosecution right now? >> it absolutely does, wolf. when you say sprawling, you're talking about investigations that were in michigan, georgia, nevada, and a bunch of other states around the country. prosecutors have to establish everything in the context of a criminal prosecution. that's not just the facts, but that is also the fact that they have what's called venue in any jurisdiction. you have to establish that a crime that you can prove actually was committed in the place you're talking about. every witness you add, every venue you add, and every potential additional charge or crime adds another burden onto the prosecution. in many respects, less is kind of more as a prosecutor. it would perhaps be in the justice department's interest to pick one jurisdiction, washington, d.c., or wherever else, bring other evidence in and charge there. once you start going around the country, number one, you're adding potential time

jessica, roth elliott williams, carrie cordero. also with, his former fbi deputy director, andrew mccabe. a lot to get to, we're gonna focus on this, a lot, obviously. elie, i mean, this is an extraordinary document that was released today. the timeline of these alleged crimes, when it is, if, not hour by hour, day after day, it paints a very clear picture of communications, between these three now alleged coconspirators. >> it really does, anderson. john donny trump is now in way worse position that he was two hours ago. the big headline to, me they had the documents. that was the single most important mystery from the first indictment. that scene at bedminster, donald trump is out of the white house, he's talking about this very sensitive documents, showing -- >> that just happens to be, there by the. way >> oh, look at this. >> if you shuffling papers, and one of the big questions is, is he actually showing them a classified document. he has since denied that, to fox news, he went on there any said, there was no document. >> yet

the aforementioned griffin, and cnn political commentator, and senior analyst, elliott williams. what do you think kaitlan about the numbers of the inner circle? >> it's notable who has gone. which is obviously jared kushner aunt hope hicks. possibly two of the closest people to donald trump during his time in the white house. and certainly during this time period. we know they both went and testified before the grand jury. hearing the testimony in this testimony to overturn the election but not just trump at his allies. i think it matters because jared kushner was obviously there. i was told back in mid december of that time period that jared kushner was going with ivanka trump. and urging trump to conceding the election. they never bought into the idea that it was stolen. that doesn't mean that they spoke up going to him privately and urging him to concede. hope hicks is also notable. we know that she spoke to the january 6th congressional committee. it's interesting how much of a roadmap they have paved for a lot of the south. but she talked to them about urging trump to tell

. >>> let's bring in cnn legal analyst, former federal prosecutor, elliott williams.morning. >> good morning. >> this is so interesting because your mind can change. i know you were a federal prosecutor, but if you're trump's defense counsel, okay. he thought that then. tha . >> let's talk why intent matters in the first place. prosecutors will establish what was in the defendant's head at the time that he committed the thing that he's accused of doing. and here, it appears that jack smith, the special counsel's office, is investigating the former president's conspiracy to defraud the united states. that's -- that requires using an act of deceit to impede a government process, right? so if he knew that he had lost the election but still was pushing these claims, they're more likely to get evidence against him and you have to prove his intent and meetings like this can get to that. >> to poppy's point, couldn't this also point to maybe there was that intent there, but that's because listen, my client had been given all of these facts, in quotes, right? he had been told

elliott hazel grove in's book chose to focus on the last 2 years of his life. it is called "the last a of the roughriders." he covers roosevelt's efforts to make another roughriders regiment. >> william book the last charge of the roughriders on book notes. ♪ >> book tv, every suny on c-span two features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. live at noon, francis fukuyama, author of the enof history returns to book tv's in-depth to take calls about polits, international affairs and liberalism. at:00 p.m. bethany berkshire explores what it means when we villain eyes certain animals -- villainize certain animals. watch online at any time at book tv.org. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. it is our weekly spotlight on podcasts, segment and i'm joined by jeffrey rosen. he is ceo of the national constitution center. he also hosts the podcast we the people. welcome to the program. guest: it is great to be back. host: there is a lot to talk about, obviously, but i want to start with the podcast itself and the national constitution center. can you tell us a little bit about both of those? guest: i am so excited to share the podcast

elliott hazel grove in's book chose to focus on the last 2 years of his life. it is called "the last a of the roughriders." he covers roosevelt's efforts to make another roughriders regiment. >> william book the last charge of the roughriders on book notes. ♪ >> book tv, every sunday on c-span two features leading authors discussing their latest nonfiction books. live at noon, francis fukuyama, author of thend of history returns to book tv's in-depth t take calls about politics, international affairs and liberalism. at 7:00 p.m. bethany berkshire explores what it means when we villain eyes certain animals -- villainize certain animals. watch online at any time at book tv.org. >> washington journal continues. host: welcome back to washington journal. it is our weekly spotlight on podcasts, segment and i'm joined by jeffrey rosen. he is ceo of the national constitution center. he also hosts the podcast we the people. welcome to the program. guest: it is great to be back. host: there is a lot to talk about, obviously, but i want to start with the podcast itself and the national constitution center. can you tell us a little bit about both of those? guest: i am so excited to share the pod