ezra, what would you ask of whom?in taxes counts as a tax increase as opposed to a tax cut, which is a congressional office budget. >> how would you answer that if you were pat toomey? keep it going? >> the question is current policy versus current law baselines. already we are in the weeds. the tax cuts have been extended now by president obama as well. it's hard to argue they are all going to snap up to where they used to be. it might be a good thing to get the deficit done. it's unlikely to happen. it's how things look compared to the extension of tax cuts. what's going to replace them. i think there's a good tax reform out there. i, pat toomey, but i didn't put in enough revenues. we have to get to where the boehner-obama discussions were. >> i'd be surprised if he said that. >> unconvincing. maya, what would you ask of whom? >> senator shumer. >> he's on "meet the press" today. >> yes. the question now is to leadership. the supercommittee was a product of leadership, it didn't work out. what are they going to do

guy with ezra. it's unlikely the whole lieu would be overturned. i also think as time goes on and people get more used to the law being in place and the benefits of it it becomes politically more of a problem to simply remove any kind of health care safety net nationally. >> that decision could come out in june 2012, right before the election. so we'll see how that does pan out. of course, we'll have more on that later. ezra, let's switch now to the issue of the super committee. big debate in washington, d.c. as to whether anything is going to happen on this. when we think about the super committee, president obama taukz about it last night. >> my hope is that over the next several days, the congressional leadership on the super committee go ahead and bite the bullet and do what needs to be done because the math won't change. there's no magic formula, there are no magic beans you can toss in the ground and suddenly a bunch of money grows on trees. >> all right. so, ezra, you've got your ear to the ground. any magic beans you've been listening to at

yeah. >> ezra, how are the republicans feeling about that pledge to grover norquist tonight? >> a lot of them aren't feeling so good. i think one unnoticed part of the supercommittee negotiations is that republicans became less willing to compromise than they were a couple months ago. remember that in the deal between john boehner and obama, the deal that was being struck behind closed doors, by the end, john boehner is willing to go with $800 billion in revenues. in this deal, the highest republicans ever got was the toomey plan that had $300 billion in actual new revenue. so they went down from there $8 billion to $300 billion. the thing that worries me, lawrence, i'm not sure the white house sees the bush tax cuts the way you do. when i talk to them, they do not seem to want them to expire. they seem completely unwilling to let that happen. they have their own pledge to never raise taxes on anybody making less than $250,000 a year. if that's going to be the case, between extending most of the bush tax cuts as barack obama's current position is or extending all of them, as

ezra, nice to see you.eing here. >> good evening. >> when mitt romney was against extending the payroll tax cut thing, he derided it as a little band-aid. is it a little band-aid? would it have a notable effect? >> it is littler than it could be. it's funny, because mitt romney's argument makes you think he'd like a much larger stimulus. the payroll tax cut, $120 billion a year. economic forecasters think that would be enough for 1% to 2% in growth next year but not a ton either. it would be great to have more, to have infrastructure investment, to have an extension of unemployment insurance. if you think it's too little of a band-aid, the idea is to make it bigger. obviously that has not been the tact mitt romney has taken with it. >> in terms of what happened this week in washington, ezra, i mean, obviously people are headlining the fact this was supposed to be a deficit reduction supercommittee and didn't come up with deficit reduction plans and so now some automatic deficit reduction plans, some automat

ezra klein, thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >>> coming up, the first openlyoins me. >>> and the late-night comedians have a lot to be thankful for. we'll bring you the best political jokes of the season. until she heard about the value plan. shop less. get more. make one call to an allstate agent. ♪ but you tonight [ male announcer ] this is your moment. this is zales, the diamond store. take an extra 15 percent off storewide this friday until two p.m. [ female announcer ] have you ever seen a glacier while sunbathing? why not? have you ever climbed a rock wall in the middle of the ocean? or tried something really wild? why not? it's all possible in the nation of why not. royal caribbean's floating nation where you're free to do anything you want. which may be nothing at all. royal caribbean international. visit royalcaribbean.com today. >>> the romney campaign strategy is now clear. mitt romney actually thinks he can lie his way into the white house. that's in the "rewrite." >>> and james hormel made history by becoming the first openly gay person to serve a

let me start with ezra so we can have the professor. ezra, what are you thankful for?two things. negative real interest rates. we can borrow for less than nothing when inflation is taken into know. that means we have a lot of space to work on jobs and infrastructure. and congressional staff themselves work in a dysfunctional pretty much terrible institution but they're largely the best thing about it. if congress does get anything done over the next year, it will be because they figure out a creative way to get there. >> two big ifs. number one, the very, very low interest rates. that's terrific. but that's like all the money you save when you go spend money at a sale. >> no, no. >> you have kind of spent the money. >> no but we -- yes, but if you had an invest many that was even a 0% return, that's a good invest many. a good thing. >> absolutely. and congressional staff, i couldn't agree with you more. these people labor night and day under very difficult circumstances. for very difficult members, frankly. >> two things to be thankful for. what are you thankful for in

ezra klein, thank you very much for joining me tonight. >> thank you. >>> coming up, the first openly u.s. ambassador, david hormel joins me. >>> and the late-night comedians have a lot to be thankful for. we'll bring you the best political jokes of the season. ♪ [ male announcer ] the super bowl. the most epic day in america. and the end of a journey that began here, when the swipe of a visa card gave one man a chance to bring happiness to ten friends... and humiliation to one. if you want this ticket, i need you to wear this helmet. i'm not gonna do it. i'm not gonna do it. i'm not gonna do it. [ sobs ] [ male announcer ] use your visa card for a chance to win. to see more of the story, visit our facebook page. helps defends against occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon. you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health. >>> the romney campaign strategy is now clear. mitt romney actually thinks he can lie his way into the white house. that's in the "rewrite." >>> and james hormel made

mi just as cute as ezra. i could do everything can do. i can sleep, i can eat, i can cry, i soil myself. (laughter) >> plus my fon tan el isn't closed either. now that you have a child, jay, i also need to share with you my wisdom as a father. being a parent is a sublime and beautiful adventure. filled with unexpected joys and unimaginable terror. i hope you have enjoyed sleeping, jay, because as a parent, the rest of your nights will be haunted by local news stories like this. >> a few things i never thought would appear in the same sentence, tampons and vodka. do i have your attention? >> stephen: yes. yes, you do. >> because if you are a parent, you really need to hear this. >> officer chris thomas spends his days patrolling the hauls of valley high school. he heard firsthand how kids are get be tipsy. >> what we are hearing about is teenagers utilizing tampons soak them in vodka first before using them. >> you heard right, teens taking tampons, soaking them in vodka, and inserting them there. >> this is not isolated to any school, any

ezra, does it matter? >> we'll see. as your previous guests said one of the things about the paper, once they endorse you, they forever back you and attack your opponents. this happened to mitt romney in 2008 when the paper endorsed john mccain and lashed romney throughout the primary. but the union leader doesn't always pick the winner. in 2000 they picked steve forbes, before that they had pierre dupont. sometimes they're on the right call, sometimes they're not. they had patrick buchananen, an msnbc contributor. they're on the fringe than the iowa comfort, the republican primary always is. it certainly doesn't hurt newt gingrich to have their endorsement. >> if you look at history, there was a great analysis of this by nate silver, it does give a significant boost in the polls, maybe you don't end up being the nominee, but it does give you that punch. let me may what president clinton told news max. >> he's articulate and he tries to think of a conservative version of an idea that will solve a legitimate problem. for

ezra, what do you know? deficit reduction. if congress doesn't come to an agreement, december 31st, 2012, the way we will finish off the deficit, taxes will go up and spending will go down. a package that's about 3-1 and half those spending cuts will be on the pentagon. these are republican triggers they developed and now by not coming to agreement earlier, they might happen. >> you wrote a great post on this. >> thank you. >> take that. and i, we're going to talk about this tomorrow because i'm going to have you back tomorrow. >> i have a graph i can bring. >> it's hot talk all the way. but i think it's really interesting that the triggers are set up that way. the big question is once the obama white house says we do not want those taxes to go up and opens up the door for some tax bill, then they completely forfeit the leverage they have. >> see this both ways. one, they won't let this happen. i think that's right. the others say if they did, the way to do it is we will extend them, just not the ones for th

i'll start with you, ezra. >> hi, grover. i take your point completely on the publicness of the pledge. the candidates who sign it, that is on them, not to you. what i'm curious about, though, is whether or not it's worked too well. it seems it has gotten the republicans in a position to where they've said no to multiple different compromises. if they get to december of 2012 and they're saying -- and this is an unpopular position that they would rather let all of them expire than let those for the upper income taxpayers expire, the outcome of that could be a tax increase of $3.8 trillion, not $800 billion. and it would be in a sense because of the pledge. because in being so penny wise on taxes, it became pound foolish. do you look at that with any sort of threat or concern? >> well, two thoughts on that. one, that's exactly the situation we were in one year ago. and democratic house and a democratic senate and a democratic president voted to extend all of the 2001, 2003 tax cuts for a two-year period. so we have been through

there's a new biography about him by ezra gel, professor emeritus at harvard. >> i decided i owed it to the public to help them understand what was happening in asia and i cod think of nothing that would contribute more to that understanding than understanng how deng xiaoping who laid the course for china today did it, what kind of person he was and what kind of legacy he left. i irk also joining us, alexander payne, the director of the new film call "the descendents." >> my husband had to come for work so we thought we'd make a vacation of it. yoknow the owner? >> hugh king he's my cousin. >> oh, you probably know my husband, then, brian sere? >> no, i can't say i do. >> like so many people, i've been madly in love with film for as long as i can remember. i think a lot of it is... >> rose: well, to look at the film... >> if you love film, you love life. it's the mt mirror we have if we look to art in general to be a mirror of our lives and give us context and something to reflect off of. we've been waiting millennia for film. rose: raze vogel and alexander payne when we continue. ca

thank you very much, ezra klein. >> thank you, ezra. >> up next, a new issue of "time" magazine.very, very good one. at aviva, we wonder why other life insurance companies treat you like a policy, not a person. instead of getting to know you they simply assign you a number. aviva is here to change all that. we're bringing humanity back to insurance and putting people before policies. aviva life insurance and annuities. we are building insurance around you. >>> hey, welcome back to "morning joe." what did you say about billy mitchell? >> san francisco, as well. >> now, you're a well-dressed man, rick. have you been to westport's? >> they sell clothes there? >> they're amazing. >> connecticut's like a big place for fashion. >> you head to connecticut. >> exactly. >> look at you, mr. hipster. >> heilemann is fashion forward. >> whatever. >> the latest, skinny jeans. >>> we've got a great issue -- >> this is going to be good. i'm already looking at it, i can't help myself. >> i can't wait to get mike's response to this. >> speaking of well-dressed and in time for veterans day and wit

por su cuenta, por el proyecto nuclear iraní, y porlas instlaaciones sirias en el 2006, elpilo de ezrasue países como irán, irak, tengan boas atómicas que amenacen con nuesa seguridad . >>> israel ataca a irán, puede que solamente se retrase el proyecto militar, y teherán va adelante con su proyecto atómico, israel vivir amenazada por el régimen de los ayhatolas. >>> wall street sufrió hoy su peor día desde agto, por la crisis económica, cayendo. >>> ilia calderón qué hayen la noche . >>> fuego cruzado en la frontera de texas, s información de eso, ademásrrestos injustificados de migrantes en nueva york, en trenes también autobuses. >>> y desd las vegas, el cteo regresivo para los lat grammy's, así que los espero en la edición nocturna. >>> eso nomás. >>> con esto y mucho más. >>> momento de nuestra última pausa, y al regresar si pnsa viajar por aón enla época ♪ >> continuamos desde la ciudad de los angeles. si usted planea viajar para la celebraciÓn de acción de gracias o navidad, o fin de aÑo, pero aÚn no ha comprado sus boletos, prepÁrense para una mala noticia. los boletos estÁn cos

su cuenta, por el proyecto nuclear iraní, y por las instlaaciones sirias en el 2006, el piloto de ezrass como irán, irak, tengan bombas atómicas que amenacen con nuestra seguridad . >>> si israel ataca a irán, puede que solamente se retrase el proyecto militar, y teherán va adelante con su proyecto atómico, israel vivirá amenazada por el régimen de los ayhatolas. >>> wall street sufrió hoy su peor día desde agosto, por la crisis económica, cayendo. >>> ilia calderón qué hay en la noche . >>> fuego cruzado en la frontera de texas, más información de eso, además arrestos injustificados de inmigrantes en nueva york, en trenes y también autobuses. >>> y desde las vegas, el conteo regresivo para los latin grammy's, así que los espero en la edición nocturna. >>> eso nomás. >>> con esto y mucho más. >>> momento de nuestra última pausa, y al regresar si piensa viajar por avión en la época navideña, prepárese, porque tendrá que pagar más por los boletos de avión ♪. >>> y continuamos desde el centro de la ciudad de los Ángeles, donde hay más personas en esta manifestación, este es un movimiento q

. >> ezra cline joins me this morning. let's go over the specifics.eid says this will be paid with a 3.25% surcharge on wealthy americans. the middle class would hold on to the $1,000 savings. why are republicans fighting this tax break? >> republicans do not like increasing taxes on wealthy americans. to some degree, it's as simple as that. the other part is this tax break is their only leverage left. the debt ceiling is raised. they can fight on the payroll tax to get something else if they want. it's a lose-lose situation for them. i'll say one more thing about the republican position. their argument is that this surtax would be a surtax on small businesses. if you read what's coming out of their side, the democrats want to cut taxes on working americans by raising them on small businesses. this basically isn't true. it is the case that any tax on wealthy americans will hit some small businesses and business owners because some businesses incorporate as individuals. that's a tax decision they are making. and most of the tax incidents would not be a

let's bring in washington post columnist and msnbc contributor, ezra kline. let's talk about the biggest concerns, first. the markets down by almost 200 at one point. there's a talk of a downgrade in u.s. credit. what's the worst that can happen now? >> i'd be careful about attributing today's markets to the super committee. there's a lot more going on in europe. for markets and for the rating agencies talking about a downgrade, it's six of one and two of another. markets don't care which side the cuts come from. they're not worried about what leon panetta thinks about the defense department. if they undo the trigger, approximate if they say instead of 1.2 trillion you get less than that, that would prompt a downgrade and prompt some market concern. there's no reason right now to think markets care about this, in fact, at all. the ratings agencies said they won't downgrade. >> you've said here, ezra, no deal is better than a bad deal. were all of the other options on the table for the super committee bad? >> not all of them, but the ones they were considering

the "washington post" ezra klein said it well when he wrote that, quote, in these negotiations, quote the democrats move right and the republicans move further right. and the president is betting americans will see it the same way, that republicans are ideologically driven anti-tax zealots incapable of compromise. in his vow yesterday to veto their attempts to undo the automatic cuts makes him long strong, but will his party and the country be with him? that's a great question. that question leads to this. why have liberals been so dissatisfied with president obama. we've got a guest who says the problem may not be the president but the expectations of those liberals who aren't ever happy with any democrat in the white house ever. i may have to admit to some problem here of my own self here anyway. and mitt romney is running a new tv commercial in new hampshire called "believe in america." but you shouldn't believe what you hear in this commercial. check out what romney has obama saying in the ad. >> it's going to take a new direction. if we keep talking about the economy, we're going