and god bless fani willis. we all know, she has been thoroughly aggressively, quietly sawing the justice wood in front of her. we learned today that she put 75 witnesses before the special grand jury, including people who desperately did not want to testify about donald trump's crimes. people like rudy giuliani and mike flynn, lindsey graham, they all ran to court, please don't make me testify, and fani willis beat every one and put them in the grand jury and forced them to testify. and today, she said we don't want the grand jury report released because that would impact defendants plural right to a fair trial. she didn't use that word recklessly or cavalierly. she's contemplating based on what we learned today, returning indictments against whoever it is the special grand jury recommended to be indicted and she said we're going to do it imminently. defendants and imminently are two words that i think we can hold fast to right now. >> and that's, i think, listen, glenn kirschner is always one to talk me down,

that report has been submitted to district attorney fani willis and to the judge in the case, robert mick bernie. the grand jury requested that the report be made public. a first amendment attorney appeared in court today, representing news organizations, and ask that the report be released in full immediately. district attorney willis was the first to speak in today's session, when she said this -- >> in this case, the state understands the medias inquiry and the world's interest. but we have to be mindful of protecting future defendant's rights. and so, what the state does not want to see happen and don't think that there is any way that the court would be able to guarantee, is that, if that report was released, there somehow could be arguments made that it impacts the right for later individuals -- multiple -- to get a fair trial, to have a fear fair hearing, to be able to be tried in this jurisdiction. the list can go on and on. so, representative states of georgia, and citizens -- i know we have this common interest -- we want to make sure that everyone is treated fairly. and we

dea fani willis is free to act on those recommendations regardless of what we, the public, can see nowe will take those recommendations to a regular grand jury to seek indictment has yet to be seen, if she does, that whether such an indictment will include former president donald trump, which would make history, because no u.s. president or former president has ever before been charged with a crime that remains to be seen. we do know it's in the dea's hands now. joining us now, michael more, a former u.s. attorney for the middle district of georgia. mr. moore, i appreciate you being here tonight. thank you for being here. >> pleasure to be with you, thank you, rachel. >> let me just ask if i explained that correctly, a special grand jury, the aim of their investigation over these past eight months has been the report that they have submitted as of today, their work is done, dissolved as an entity, and those jurors will go home. >> that's exactly right. remember, this grand jury had no authority to issue an indictment, even if the dea had asked for one. that was a chance for her to use

. >> on the other side, fulton county district attorney fani willis, who convened the special grand jury, once the report sealed until she makes a decision on criminal charges. >> at this time, in the interest of justice and the rights of not the state but others, we are asking that the report not be released because, you have not seen that report, decisions are imminent. >> you having seen that report, decisions are imminent, she says. the judge has not made a ruling yet, but someone in the courtroom today, michael isikoff, chief investigative correspondent of yahoo news, joins me now. michael, give a sense of what the arguments were and what it was like in the courtroom today. >> yeah, it was pretty fascinating. the headline was that fani willis, the district attorney who is asking that the report not be immediately released, but the language she used is quite telling. she said, in short some of it there, but she talked about the rights of future defendants, and when i listen to that, to me, that was the strongest indication we've had yet directly from fani willis, that she's planning

we'll pick up our coverage and have more on who else could be in fani willis' cross hairs.ld indictments be coming over that fake elector scheme. >>> plus, over the weekend, the copy cat crimes we were talking about against democracy taking place in brazil. supporters of their ex-president breaking into the capitol buildings with claims of election fraud, trying to shut down the government of brazil. how donald trump and his allies responded to that. >>> and newly minted house speaker kevin mccarthy's first test comes tonight. we can find out how much he gave up to the extremists in his own party. that and much more on "deadline: white house" when we come back from a quick break. we'll be right back. from a quick break we'll be right back. and this is the sound of better breathing. fasenra is a different kind of asthma medication. it's not a steroid or inhaler. fasenra is an add-on treatment for asthma driven by eosinophils. it's one maintenance dose every 8 weeks. it helps prevent asthma attacks, improve breathing, and lower use of oral steroids. nearly 7 out of 10 adults

fani willis has asked the judge to keep the report under seal citing concerns for, quote, future defendants adding that charging decisions are, quote, imminent. joining me is vaughn hillyard. what can we read into the comments about any potential charging decisions that may come down soon? >> the two headlines are number one, we don't have the report in our hands right now. this is the report that the special grand jury that was empanelled in fulton county completed earlier this month after an eight month investigation into alleged efforts by donald trump and allies to overturn the election results in georgia. that is the report that is on the docket to potentially be made public in what numerous sides made the case in the case of the district attorney fani willis arguing that it should not be made public for the sake of a few trial referring to potentially future defendants whose trials could be, you know, harmed in some way by the public dissemination of evidence that was accumulated over the course of the special grand jury's investigation. but then on the other hand, there was even perh

but i heard fani willis say today in court, the word she used was that a decision is, eminent. so we know the special grand jury has completed its work. so now all that's left, really, is for her to assess the evidence and decide whether further investigation is necessary and make a charging decision. we don't know where they are in the doj investigation, federally. but i agree with you. it does not feel like it's as close. and i think there's a good reason for that. part of it is she is dealing with just the activities in one state. whereas doj is dealing with activities and a number of states, national scope. i also think we have a lot more visibility into her case because she is required by statute to go to the courts to get subpoenas for witnesses who are out of state, and to get those orders. so we know all of the people who have testified before the grand jury in georgia, where if we don't have the same visibility at doj. maybe we will be surprising doj will be here with the indictment. but i don't think so. it seems like she's moving at a very good clip, that she's gonna

and we are expecting a set of recommendations about what da fani willis should do, whether she shouldpublic, and now, we will see at this hearing in front of fulton superior court judge robert mcburney in two weeks, about what he wants to do. now, the law says he should follow what the grand jurors want to do, but there are other conditions, that should be taken into the account. what the da wants's to do, what the media wants to do. bill of course want that to be public. and, potential targets of this investigation, they might try and stop it, or at least get their portions of the report redacted. so, a lot of arguments that we can see these next two weeks. >> yeah, i wanna come back to the sort of transparency question. but let me just follow up with you here, gwen. my understanding, in some ways, the baton is being passed here, and fani willis, let us say that she decides criminal charges are warranted here. what will be the next news? and what will be the timeline for that? >> well, at this point, now that the special grand jury has concluded, she has the option based on the evide

my understanding, in some ways, the baton is being passed here, and fani willis, let us say that shed here. what will be the next news? and what will be the timeline for that? >> well, at this point, now that the special grand jury has concluded, she has the option based on the evidence that she's gathered to go before a regular grand jury. and those are seated every two months in fulton county. they usually meet twice a week. interestingly enough, they may actually be meeting on the 24th, or later that week. and so, she will have the opportunity to have one of her investigators, or whatever witnesses she chooses, to present to a regular grand jury, to decide whether any crimes have been committed. and that grainger we also comprised of fulton county residents will make the decision as to whether they will issue a true bill, which means, yes, they believe there was sufficient evidence, or a probable cause that a crime occurred. or no bill, where they don't think there's sufficient evidence. >> let me just follow up on that. that is the standard procedure for any, well, there's differ

but now in the hands of fulton county district attorney fani willis.nge of potential charges available to her. including those used for organized criminal activity. like. rico perhaps most concerning for, trump in light of us now infamous phone call for georgia secretary of state asking him to, quote, on the 11,000 8000 votes to defeat biden, georgia is a state law against, quote, criminal solicitation to commit election fraud. what can we expect now? joining me this morning is glenn keys fleming. she is the former guest district attorney and -- georgia's trump investigation. for those of you have not read, it i would urge you to get out there and actually read that report. because, glance there are part was just so comprehensive. but i know that you in the other authors drawn to that before the conclusion of this grand jury's investigation. so i wanted to ask you based on your experience as a prosecutor, and frankly everything you know about this case, can we expect to see a trump indictment of the fulton county in the next few months? >> i think it i

he'll pull back the curtain on today's eyebrow raising comments by fani willis.about be here with america's seemingly endless clip of mass shootings. what can we do? that conversation when we come back. that's when you know, it's half-washed. downy has 7 benefits that condition and smooth fibers so clothes look newer, longer. feel the difference with downy. >>> this second amendment is becoming a suicide pact it feels like. i mean it's just -- that's the only question about our kids and are they going to school? what more can we do? we look at that all the time. we need half dozen bills last year and continue to find whatever loopholes we can to lead the national conversation and the data bears out. and yet with all that evidence, no one on the other side seems to give a damn. >> hi again, it's 5:00 in new york. the second amendment is becoming a suicide pact. remarkable and provocative comment by california's governor gavin newsom. his state has seen not one, not two but three mass shootings in as many days. we covered the tragic mass shooting in monterey park o

but none of that weighs on fani willis.indictments whenever she use, wolf. >> so when the district attorney, sara says her decision on charges is in her word imminent do, you have any sense what that time frame potentially could be? >> that's the million dollar question, right, wolf? if we are talking about a complicated case, a potential racketeering case, which is something she has suggested she could bring in this case, that is the kind of thing that you're talking about multiple defendants. you really want to have your case camera ready before you get an indictment from a grand jury. so it's probably not going to happen overnight. >> sara murray in atlanta for us, thank you very much. >>> coming up, the crisis unfolding in house speaker kevin mccarthy's district as a drought leaves thousands struggling to access clean water. not that one. that's the one. at university of phoenix, you could earn your master's s degree in less ththan a year for under $11k. learn more at phoenix.edu. with chase freedom unlimited, you can c

that phone call is compelling evidence for fani willis to have.n they hold the hearing on january 24th, that is the hearing where the judge will determine whether or not the report will be released publicly. it's likely whichever side loses will appeal that and that will take some time to resolve. as you point out, fani willis has a grand jury that's convened that morning. she could begin to present evidence to them to determine whether indictments will be returned. i think that there is a little bit of time involved in presenting this evidence. she can use a summary witness, an agent to recall for the grand jury that's charged with making decisions about indictment what evidence the investigative grand jury unearthed. that will take a little bit more than a minute. she also has the possibility of going to her regular grand jury in advance of the 24th to seek indictments if that's where she is headed. she could seal those and announce them at a later date. >> and just this little footnote, joyce. let me just read you something that has just broken

because fani willis is not going to back off. there would be arguments over here about prosecuting former president made possible to her. the january six and by indictment and forthcoming invite indictments are also appearing exposure. because here's the thing. we've been talking about the taxes and we said did he commit attacks crime? i don't think that's the best question to be asking. the best question is is this a good example of how he defrauded the public? as one of the january six deferrals. i think that is notable now because essentially he did the exact same thing that we are accusing george santos of doing, misrepresenting who you are in order to gain elected office and raise money for that purpose. so i think that all of these different issues kind of compound, and make some of these cases even more persuasive in front of a during jury. >> david, i've got to ask. just a follow-up we talk to georgia and fulton county. that's one case i've had a man in the lead people have said that is the case where shortly is a lot of

greg you have covered dea district attorney fani willis and how she handled cases. what do you think about her decision, saying that decisions are imminent on these charges. what does that mean? >> yeah, reading between the, line as the district attorney seems to suggest multiple times, that an indictment is very likely. as she, said decisions are imminent, she just mention, and continue that releasing the report can prejudice the jury against future defendants. if and perhaps when she seeks to bring criminal charges, this decision could come soon. we don't know how much longer this report will remain a secret, but the judge said that he won't make any rash decisions, but elected lawyers pattern out. so we can see some developments fairly soon in this case. >> chuck, the fact that he does not want to report released now, what does that tell you about what we can have upcoming? >> i think that's exactly the right thing for a prosecutor to do, stephanie. if you have a pending criminal case -- if you are going to charge people with crimes -- you don't want to lay out i

whatever fani willis thinks is soon, is soon, but i would take her at her word and i think we will heardecisions are. >> how about that hush money payment to stormy daniels? is that back again? >> this is the oldest and the newest. this dates back to 2016, but there are brand-new developments here. we've just learned that the new york d.a., the manhattan d.a., a state-level prosecutor here in manhattan is going to put evidence of these hush money payments in front of a grand jury. that could result in an indictment, and it's interesting because this goes back so far in time, and i think the question is what has happened? this goes back 6 1/2 years to before the campaign. why now, and will the jury see fit to indict? we're talking about new york state level crimes here, and that is a surprising development and one we'll watch carefully. >> you have reporting in the new book that says feds actually looked at this as well, but they decided not to pursue it. why? >> yeah. so this is in my new book, victor. i take us inside the justice department, the southern district of new york. i get int

you are here, posing county district attorney fani willis made one thing clear.the report to be made public. >> that this time, in the interest of justice and the rights of not just the state but others, we are asking that's the report not be released. because you, you having seen that report, decisions are imminent. >> the judge has yet to ensure a ruling on whether to release the report. but the possibility of criminal charges in this case appears imminent. joining me now, joyce vance, msnbc legal analyst and former u.s. attorney in alabama. and co-host of the hashtag sisters in law podcast. and harry, lippman former u.s. attorney and deputy assistant attorney general. and host of the talking feds podcast. thank you both very much for being here. joyce, that is the fact that da willis does not wants the grand jury report released, is that a clear signal to you that trump will be indicted? >> i think it is going a little bit too far to say that it is a clear signal that trump will be indicted. i think it is a clear signal that she expects that she will have a ca

hit in the balls every day [ light laughter ] for example, the district attorney of fulton county fani willisinvestigating this phone call, and the pressure campaign around it to the point where she subpoenaed among others senator lindsey graham, former trump campaign coucil jenna ellis, and rudy giuliani. in fact, giuliani was informed last year that he's a target of the investigation and he was also called to testify before the grand jury, in august. >> president trump's former lawyer rudy giuliani faced a grilling for six hours before a grand jury in atlanta yesterday. giuliani testifying as a target of the criminal probe looking into possible 2020 election interference there >> we do know that it very likely centered around statements that giuliani made to georgia lawmakers back in 2020, just on the heels of the presidential election, where he came forth and made a number of false claims, and really conspiracy theories about the election here in georgia >> what kind of charges potentially would that mean? >> you know, the da here in fulton county has indicated that this could lead to poss

the decision whether to seek an indictment is now in the hands of fulton county district attorney fani willissince june, the grand jury has heard testimony from dozens of witnesses, including rudy giuliani and south carolina republican senator lindsey graham. in january 2021, trump told george secretary of state brad raffensperger, "i just want to find 11,780 votes" -- the margin he would have needed to defeat joe biden in georgia. meanwhile, a federal judge in new york has delayed the unsealing of a deposition given by trump in a lawsuit accusing him of defamation. former magazine columnist e. jean carroll has accused trump of raping her in the 1990's. which the former has denied. the lawsuit will be heard today by the u.s. court of appeals for the district of columbia, where trump's lawyers will argue presidents can't be personally sued for statements made while in office. in california, community advocates are demanding justice keenan anderson, a black father and high school english teacher, who was killed by los angeles police on january 3. anderson was tased, tackled to the pavement, hel

fulton county district attorney fani willis said yesterday that a decision is imminent.be multiple defendants internal mastication election interference in georgia. that is of course multiple investigations into trump. that are active on ongoing. the justice department is still looking to the hundreds of classified documents out of mar-a-lago that trump refused to hand back. the political calculations around the probe might have changed. given that classified documents were also found at the homes of president joe biden and mike pence. crucially, there is also the ongoing federal investigation of trump's culpability in the january 6th attack on the capitol. under justice department special counsel jack smith. andrew weizmann spent years working with the department justice. most recently served as a lead prosecutor for robert mueller. special counsel investigation. joins me now. i want to start andrew with the question about the classified documents. i've talked to a bunch of people about this and i'm not sure if i believe their answers. because, >> that they are better c

reporter: whether anyone faces charges is a decision that rests with fulton county district attorney fani willisminal investigation. we're not here playing a game. >> reporter: now, we could hear from a number of parties in court today, but who we're not going to hear from is donald trump and his attorneys putting out a statement saying trump was never subpoenaed a part of this matter and assume the grand jury did their job looked at facts and law as we did and concluded no violations by the law by president trump. >> see what happens court. a big decision to make today. thank you very much. >> the moment you hear that tape, 11,000, whatever it was. >> that exact number. >> insane. it's beyond belief. if i hadn't lived through it i wouldn't believe it. >> ending on the grand jury seven months and then hearing all of that evidence, and now we may see a lot of it. >> do you remember the first time? one of those things you remember where you were when it happened? over the holidays. i remember, i was on a grocery store aisle and i was, is this really happening? thought it was, like, doctored. >> uh

georgia for a number of reasons, one is the aggressive of fani willis.ooking at what happened in georgia. he was the architect of this plot, and so i think that there's a very strong chance he could be indicted there and that that could come very quickly. but i don't think that means that's the only place where he faces criminal exposure in the federal investigation. i think he can face exposure for his conduct in georgia and all of these other states where fake electors were solicited. and he is right in the heart of that scheme. you read from that memo. we know what mike pence was saying on january 5th, which is very different from what john eastman is saying. the treasure trove of evidence is what is in somebody's phone. people send all kinds of text messages and write notes for themselves and that could be very perilous. >> thanks as always, bausch. >> thanks, alex. >>> we'll be right back. thanks. >>> we'll be right back. i screwed up. mhm. i got us t-mobile home internet. now cell phone users have priority over us. and your marriage survived that?

the judge did not make a ruling, but fani willis did say that she would recommend indictments, and shee and referred multiple times of preserving rights of defendants and saying is multiple. and this is what she had to say in court, and what the attorneys in court said for the attorneys arguing to release had to say. >> at this time in the interest of justice and the rights of not the state, but others, we are asking that the report not be released, because you having seen that report, decisions are imminent. >> the faith of the public and the court system is much improved by operating in a public way. the jurors themselves have asked for it to be published. there is enormous public interest in what they have said. >> reporter: now you heard willis there saying that the decisions are imminent, and presumably the decisions on whether she is going to be bringing charges or not, and we don't know who is on the table for possible indictments and we don't know if it is the former president or his associates, and all of that is what is included in the report, and so highly anticipated. the j

addition to da alvin bragg's investigation, there's the fulton county case led by district attorney fani williso interference in georgia's 2020 election. there are two department of justice inquiries into classified documents. and the general six insurrection, both now led by special counsel jack smith. and yet, still, as of now, the man who certainly appears to violated the law in many different ways remains unindicted. and the situation is the same, politically, within that republican party, where people just keep hoping that someone else will come along and put an end to donald trump's political career. of course, they had a chance to do that, the best chance republicans had to do that was in the days and weeks after january six. if senate minority leader mitch mcconnell had whipped for a yes vote in conviction on impeachment, i think they probably would have convicted trump, and barred him from holding future office. but mcconnell was a coward. and he chose not to. and so, the magical thinking continues, as mckay poppins describes in this great piece of the atlantic, quote, faced with the p

fani willis has yesterday the quote -- but could be multiple defendants.ion interference in georgia. let us, of course, just one of multiple investigations into trump that are active and ongoing. the justice department is still looking into the hundreds of classified documents found at mar-a-lago that trump refused to hand back. political occupations on that probe may have changed given classified documents were also found at the house of president joe biden mike pence. crucially, there's also the ongoing federal investigation of trump's culpability in the january 6th attack on the capitol under special counsel jack smith. andrew weizmann spent years working in the department of justice, recently serving as a lead prosecutor for robert mueller's special counsel investigation. he joins me now. i want to start, and you, without question about the classified documents. i talked to a lot of people about this and i'm not sure if i believe their answers, because -- >> i think there better, chris. >> i think we're gonna say the same thing, and i'm gonna leave you

today, district attorney fani willis asked a judge to delay releasing the grand jury's report on the investigation. and she gave some hints about what her next move is maybe? >> we think for future defendants, to be treated fairly, it's not appropriate at this time to have this report released, i is elected attorney have made several commitments to the public, understand the public interest around this case. at this time, in the interest of justice, and the rights of not the state, but others, we are asking that the report not be released because you having seen that report, decisions are imminent. >> imminent, the judge said he would rule and release in the report at a later date, but for now it remains sealed. meanwhile, trump's vice president is facing new questions about his handling of classified materials. a small number of classified documents were discovered last week and mike pence's home in indiana. nbc's kristen welker has more. >> former vice president mike pence's legal team revealing a small number of classified documents were inadvertently taken to pence's indiana home

. >> i don't think you can overstate the importance of that call in terms of the evidence that fani willis is dealing with. she has on tape the president of the united states in a swing state he asking that official to find the exact number of votes that would flip the result in his favor that. is, to severely understate it, not good. trump today for reasons we will get into in a moment said that was a perfect call in all caps three times. in addition to calling and pressuring the george secretary of state to overturn the election, trump did the same with georgia governor brian kemp and the state investor in the georgia secretary of state's office. trump basically forced the u.s. attorney in atlanta to resign for not doing his bidding for him. now, back when she launched the investigation in february of 2021, fulton county d.a. fannie willis said they were looking into violations of georgia law pertaining to prohibiting the solicitation of election fraud, making of false statement to local and governmental bodies, conspiracy, racketeering, violation of oath of office and any involvement in

. >> fulton county georgia attorney fani willis says her decision is, quote, a minute. a minute on possible charges against former president trump and others for efforts to overturn the 2020 election in georgia. the final report is now complete from the special grand jury that was empaneled in this very manner. and the dea suggesting the recommended multiple indictments. but she argued in court today that that report should not be made public, at least for now. >> what the state does not want to see happen, and don't think there's any way the court would be able to guarantee, is if that report was released, there somehow could be arguments made that it impacts the right for later individuals, multiple, to get a fair trial, to have a fair hearing, to be able to be tried in this jurisdiction. the list can go on and on >> i know cnn is actually part of the group of media organizations ask for that report to be made public. joining me now cnn legal analysis elliott williams, cnn political commentator karen finney, who by the way, did work on the 2020 election in georgia, an

also, the fulton county district attorney, fani willis is looking into trump's efforts to overturn thelection in georgia. she has said that grand jury in that case has recommended multiple indictments. her decision to bring charges is imminent. letitia james is suing president trump and his three elder children, according to james, they misled lenders, insurers and tax authorities to enrich themselves. i should note the trump's have denied any wrong doing in that case. the manhattan district attorney has also started presenting its case to a grand jury about trump's role in hush money payments to former adult actress stormy daniels during the 2016 presidential race. that's according to "the new york times." trump's former attorney, michael cohen pleaded guilty to finance charges related to the payments cohen facilitated while working for then candidate trump. let's bring in cnn correspondent kara scannell. we thought the hush money payment wasn't going anywhere, the broader look into trump's business practices. >> what's old is new again. the hush money payment, that's how they started

a, fani willis, promised that no one is above the law. >> if you are a member of a gang and you are committing a crime in our community, i want to make sure that you are held responsible to the full extent of the law. people also seem to think that, in society, that there are certain people that are immune for prosecution if you are a celebrity, if you are a high-ranking public official. i guess that there is something strange with me. lady justice is actually blond. this is the reality. >> the judge overseeing the grand jury has scheduled a hearing in two weeks to determine what should happen with the final report. our own blayne alexander has been in its -- following the country, and what's about to happen next. >> who was fighting against him? what sort of legal battles do we see in the days and weeks to come around possibly redacting courses of -- possibly keeping portions of. it they have been letting it be out in the open. i do think we should point out that the special grandeur itself, actually voted to make that public. the people who wrote this report, they spent the better part of ei

one is just the aggressiveness of fani willis, but also the other in her investigation, it's a littleshe's only looking at the events that occurred in georgia. i think there's a very strong likelihood that this grand jury would recommend charges, and if so, he's an instrumental player in all of this. he's the architect of this plot. i think there's a very strong chance that you could be indicted, there and that could come very quickly. i don't think that that means there is the only place where he could face criminal exposure. in the federal investigation, i think that he can face exposure for his conduct in georgia and all of these other states were fake electors were solicited. he is right in the heart of this, he read from that memo, we know what mike pence was saying on january 5th, which is very different from what john eastman is saying. also alex, i will tell you that the treasure trove of evidence is somebody's phone. people send all kinds of text messages, write notes to themselves, and i could be very perilous for john eastman. >> former u.s. attorney for the eastern distric

if it says what we assume making recommendations about people getting indicted, fani willis has to move quickly because the information will be public. >> yeah. and proven to move quickly and aggressively with racketeering charges in her past. i thought interesting, maggie, what you tweeted in terms of how her staff is preparing for potential violence. >> it would really be jarring. my colleagues covering this closely in georgia have a thorough, comprehensive report on our website talking about exactly what this might show, and what the investigations look like, and, yes. they are bracing for the possibility that if the there are charges against trump that this could again commence in violence. we forget right after january 6th, 2021, preparations for violence in state capitals around the country. i think that's is part of what is informing this and some staffers have take ton wearing bullet-proof vests, part of that report as well, stunning. >> yeah. and speaks to the moment we are in. now, has the political violence expected right after january 6th nationally happened? no. but there i

so really this is a decision for fani willis, whether she wants to move forward from what would be a historic first prosecution of a former president. >> yeah, no legal precedence at all. county grand jury, a former president. so what are the next steps for the d.a., what do you think are the things she needs to take into consideration? you don't want to go into a case like this unless you feel pretty darn sure that you can win it. >> you have to win. and the problem is there is no guarantee that you would. now, of course a jury in atlanta would be different from a jury in other jurisdictions that might be more favorable to the president or give him credit like the judge in florida tried to do because he was president. but still, this would be an unprecedented case. and so the judge -- sorry, the district attorney will want to make sure that she has all of the evidence that she needs to persuade a jury beyond a reasonable duty if she decides to bring the charges. i don't think that there will be a whole lot of coordination with federal investigation including with the special council

have any sense, not when the judge will decide, we know that's likely to take a few days but did fani willisf time? >> reporter: you know, what she said in court is decisions are imminent. when i have spoken to legal experts about, you know, the time line for indictments, they say, look, if she's talking about a complicated case, about a racketeering case where you could indict multiple defendants at once you're going to want to take a little time putting that together. you won't want to go to a regular grand jury and get that indictment until essentially your case is amount ra ready and ready to go to court. >> sara, stand by and jump in if anything comes up. still with me nia-malika henderson and carrie cordero. carrie, you have a special grand jury that's a little unique, it's different then you have a charging decision by the prosecutor. and the media organizations say we want this report now. >> yeah, this is an unusual situation, the role that this special grand jury played where they're issuing in a report but we don't have an indictment. normally prosecutors want to speak through the

fani willis and another regular grand jury to decide. the special grand jury, as you've seen reported here in dribs and drabs over the last many number of months, we've seen people come in and talk with them, right? testimony from people like former chief of staff mark meadows, rudy giuliani, the governor brian kemp, blayne alexander has followed all of it and i can hear everybody coming in and oust courthouse in fulton county and joined by former state prosecutor in new york and msnbc legal analyst. talk about the next steps here. so much of the ball is in d.a. willis's court, right? >> it is squarely in her court, hallie. and that's who we're going to be watching closely. i think that the question of course is will she bring forth any charges in this, and perhaps more notably, will former president donald trump be on the referring end of any potential charges. now, a spokesperson for the d.a.'s office tells me today they're not commenting on this right now but a source familiar with the process says the dafrmd and her team will get a f

we had fulton county da fani willis saying this week that the sessions were quote unquote, imminent andnd did not in fact released a grand jury's report for the time being. also, our own msnbc block saying this, i want to read it for you if i can. the da's reasoning for wanting to keep the granary report secret, at least for now also suggest that she is gearing up to bring criminal charges. and i think you can tell us about this or any analysis you have on this? >> well, first i don't have any firsthand knowledge. i can only speak to my former position as a da. i think she is making the right move. she is indicated that discussions are eminent, but she has used the defendants to suggest that any decision she makes will be about more than one person. and she is, right every prosecutor is concerned about the integrity of their case. and if and when there are charges, if the and one there are convictions, you want them to stand, to be able to hold wrongdoers accountable. and so she is playing the long game as she should hear. i do if the report becomes public but i understand the need for

the district attorney fani willis. she doesn't have to go through bureaucracy or approvals.utting her case in front of a special grand jury which will make a recommendation and then the d.a. will decide whether to seek an indictment with a regular grand jury. on the federal side we have special counsel now, jack smith. he will run the day to day of the investigation. he will make the first recommendation as to whether to indict or not intidict, but tha decision goes to merrick garland. he has to give weight to what special counsel wants to do but on the federal side it will be the attorney general's decision. >> what kind of cooperation, if any, exists between the special counsel and the georgia grand jury? who gets to go first in announce anything results? >> it's a fascinating question. i was both on the federal side and the state side during my career so i can tell you whoever gets to go first will be whoever goes first. there's no way that either side can prevent or slow down the other one from charging first. now sometimes in the situation, you see the parties coordinat

abby, the judge is still hearing arguments about whether to make this report public but heard from fani willisle bit ago and signaled that this special grand jury report again still secret that they recommended indictments potentially multiple indictments and talked a lot about how the d.a.'s office wanted to keep this report under seal to preserve their rights. >> what the state does not want to see happen and don't think there's any way the court would be able to guarantee is if this report was released, there somehow could be arguments made that it impacts the right for later individuals, multiple, to get a fair trial, to have a fair hearing, to be able to be tried in this jurisdiction. >> reporter: now, willis can move ahead with seeking indictments whether the judge decides to make this report public or not. but this is a grand jury that has been digging into, you know, efforts to meddle in the election for seven months, willis said they talked to 75 witnesses. you know, we know they brought in people like rudy giuliani, like south carolina senator lindsey graham, like former trump advise

that is the type of grand jury that fulton county district attorney fani willis worked with for eighttrump made his now infamous phone call to the georgia secretary of state, asking him to find the votes that he needed to win the election. the results of that investigation are now in the form of a written report that the court is considering. willis is free, if she chooses, to return to regular grand jury to seek indictments. >> let's talk about that because this gradually, it can investigate, it can't indict, that would be up to the regular state criminally grand jury. what do you think is likely happening right now in this next phase? >> that is the big question mark here. the court in georgia has scheduled a hearing on january 24th to decide whether or not the investigative grand jury and its report should become public, but willis already has access to that information, her office was intimately involved in the grand jury's work. up to them is the consideration of whether any of the evidence that they have compiled violates georgia law. it is always tough to know what prosecutors

donald is clearly facing fani willis in atlanta, the fulton county, district attorney. the case that jack smith, the prosecutor brought in by merrick garland to pursue over the human intelligence and other highly sensitive documents that donald trump not only took but lied and denied about and refused to return as we were discussing in the previous segment. >> let's take a look at what manhattan da alvin bragg said earlier today about the finds the trump organization will have to pay. >> we've been talking with our partners in our state, legislation in albany, about having stiffer penalties so the companies that have a lot of resources can't just price this in as the cost of doing business. we've been pushing, i said earlier today, right after the sentencing, that this financial penalty is not sufficient, and we are working to stiffen the penalties. >> here's the thing, if they are working to stiffen the penalties, those penalties wouldn't be retroactive. that will be for the next criminal who does this, right? >> yes. we do not have ex post facto laws in our constituti

like you, said a district attorney fani willis told a judge today that the decision is minute on whether bring indictments on donald trump on any of his associates. it is investigation into election interference. though she seemed to be signaling that the special grand jury had recommended some people for criminal charges. we don't know that for certain because of course, we still haven't seen their final report. but after was talking in court about wanting to keep this reports under wraps, she kept referring to how important it is to protect the rights of future defendants. she's said, it was important to preserve the rights of future defendants and to make sure that they were able to get a fair trial in this jurisdiction. remember, she has previously named more than a dozen people as potential targets in this investigation, people like rudy giuliani, donald trump's former attorney, as well as more than a dozen republicans, who served as fake electors for donald trump here. >> did the judge overseeing the special grand jury, have any hints on whether he's england to inclined to reach th