maria: well, i'm glad you mentioned gary gensler.rstanding why it is possible for chinese companies to trade on u.s. exchanges and not follow the sitting auditing rules -- same auditing rules as everybody else. gary gensler has been overseeing this whole idea of venture capital companies getting american money invested in chinese companies that are tied to the chinese military. why are we funding the expansion of communist china when they are literally about to turn their guns on us with all of the aggression that we're seeing play out from cyber activity and hacks to surveillance balloon? >> maria, this is such an important point. it speaks directly not only to what gensler is doing at the s.e.c. on auditing standards and holding chinese public companies here accountable but also what the president did yesterday on the executive order, what on capitol hill we call reverse cfius where we review american investments going to other countries like china. he's got it narrowly targeted but you have to understand everything in china is abo

gary gensler wants to regulate. that's what democrats do. they restrict and regulate.hat's a different way of looking at the world. maria: great point. the regulatory environment has gotten stricter. this is one of the policies of trump was, you know, cutting regulation is a beautiful thing. remember when he came out with that pile of papers and he had the scissors and cut the red tape. it's true, that leads to growth when you've got less regulation. >> right. >> it does. i think bitcoin's case, it's going to go to zero anyway. let the free markets determine that. you don't have to put restrictions on it. we can keep opening up the cass no, that's fine but it's -- casino, that's fine. but it's going to be worthless. >> bitcoin was up 15% on the ruling that gray scale would have rights to a bitcoin backed etf. i will agree we get caught up in the price of bitcoin. the one thing crypto can do for us that few people are talking about, it actually moves money more efficiently. for example, if you are the bank of tokyo and you want to transfer $100 million of yen from your

gary gensler has said it.an exchange on an etf kind of takes the sam bankman-fried element out of it, doesn't it? what was their rationale? >> so the only rationale that i can share with you all today and all your viewers is what they've put in their denial orders. they have had fears around risk of manipulation and fraud in the underlying bitcoin market and that that couldn't be adequately protected against should bitcoin be inside of the etf wrapper. >> so in the bitcoin market as it's trading, fraud in the trading. >> that is their speculation that they're -- >> wow. >> it wouldn't be sufficient protections to thwart -- >> in trading. >> correct. >> why do they allow futures then? >> a great question. >> i mean, a bitcoin future, that's the whole thing. >> absolutely. >> you can buy this via a bitcoin futures product. >> and that's really the basis of the lawsuit. the sec changed its position, it green lit several futures-based etfs, and the argument we made was those bitcoin futures contracts derive their

the decision took apart the sec or gary gensler's opposition to bitcoin spot etf's.di: more to come here on daybreak australia. daybreak australia. this is bloomberg. it's an amazing thing when you show generosity of spirit to someone. and you want people to be saved and to have a better life, then you don't stop. we have been able to reach over 100 million people impacted and affected, and at risk of hiv. the rocket fund takes all of the work that we're doing, all over the world, and looks at the most effective ways, to get resources to them, to get services to them. the idea that we have saved five million people's lives, it's overwhelming. it's everything. haidi: where expecting payroll from the u.s. friday. our next guest says the fed is nearing the peak of the current tightening cycle. joining us now is carl tannenbaum from the northern trust company. great to have you with us. we are still expecting those u.s. jobs numbers, perhaps lower job growth and cooling wage gains, but they are still pretty resilient. what makes you think we are at the peak of what the f

gensler has justified the stands saying that the agency has taken it to protect investors to protecthe interest rate from front and the sec has approved futures etf but rejected grayscale's spot bitcoin etf, they just did not see the logic. there was an immediate response from grayscale which posted a response on x, formerly known as twitter, proclaiming victory, thinking supporters and calling it him in the middle -- thanking supporters and call it a monumental step forward. but surging as much as seven point 5% -- bitcoin surging as much as 7.5%. grayscale surged as much as 17% as well as coinbase which is involved in litigation with the sec, they are related by the decision and expect to win their challenge with the sec. the biggest gain is in the penny stock, silver gate capital, which collapsed in march, one of the first regional banks to collapse because of its exposure to fdx. the failed crypto exchange and its mid majority crypto holdings. haidi: what happens now? >> nothing will happen soon if you look at the decade long fight that many financial firms have taken to try to g

is that what you play on the holidays you play a video of gensler by the fireplace? let's turn on gensler >> i was waiting for that. >> that was funny. it was funny >> my stepson works at zoom, never went to zoom there was no reason. you see, it's by remote. >> as i like to say, we're the only people who show up five days a week in-person and wear ties that's it. us fridays, i don't >> i don't like being off fridays. i have to work on that what the heck is that about? i think they want me to be off fridays. >> we want to pace you >> i'm doing all this work anyway those are fractious and unruly i once adopted a thoroughbred. you can't. you can't. they'll just throw you >> we need you to keep going >> we don't walk behind you because we're worried you're going to kick us >> we got to pace you. >> retired police horses are the best horses to adopt have you seen the dog we adopted? tony to go with r giga? rigatoni >> i'm so happy to hear that >> we're trying to figure out what religion he is. >> has he told you >> not yet we used 23andme. >> that's not religion >> let's

maria: this is a good point cowen makes, gensler is under pressure to complete the agenda by late aprilse of the congressional review act so the congressional review act gives congress 60 legislative days to void any agency rules. the clock resets if you new congress is sworn in before 60 days. congress is mostly on recess beginning in may of an election year. a gop sweep could let congress void all of these rules. >> that's why he's got on the ropes. maria: that's why elections matter. these are the rules they're talking about today behind the closed door of the sec. this will have a massive impact on business. >> they're worried about it being undone. if there's a gop sweep, they could easily undo this. they should. this is not something that will benefit the american population. maria: do you want to buy here? you've been worried about commercial real estate. how are you feeling about year end in terms of investing in stocks. >> we're close to fully invested. we have a higher cash position than we normally have. we're positioned very defensively. maria: depends on what you're allocat

gensler has raised this issue. that's the subtext of what rubner is trying to say. >> that was a great report thank you. i wanted to ask if you think the time of year we're in is really giving this type of activity more of an emphasis than it would otherwise have and just to put some meat on those bones, 1.8 million contracts traded hands at the end of last week that's about 55% of total index volume so it is a lot of activity, but then the other side that have would be to say, yeah, but it's a ripple in the pond it's market makers they get it done by the end of the day. it doesn't move things that much outside of the effect of one or two hours. what is the right way to think about that >> it is a good point. seasonally here we are i looked up at the volume here at the new york stock exchange yesterday, almost at the end it was like 400 million plus shares normally we're over a billion, right? >> 800 to a billion. >> did this trading actually cause some of the recent i don't think so when you get volatility it incr

is there anyway you can put yourself in gary gensler's shoes? years, he has been raging war on the crypto industry, so does he throw in the towel or double down? katherine: the grayscale case is part of a normal process. you have the courts looking at an agency action and making a decision on that basis. if you are gary gensler at this point, i think it is time to take a step back and reconsider and say, ok, let's find an organized way to get these products out to market, and i think that is what you're going to see happen i think we will see a lot of movement in early january around these products. su: two answers in terms of years, how long do you think it will take before we get there? katherine: for spot bitcoin? su: yes. katherine: next year. su: all right, there you have it. shery: katherine dowling, good to have you with this, chief compliance officer and general counsel of bitwise asset management. we are waiting for japan capital spending numbers. we have been watching eco-data recently, including china, where we have seen manufacturing

this guy had multiple, multiple meetings with gary gensler, and he was spending times bringing -- timeagainst, what was the one? coinbase? ripple? these are not frauds. liz: the dow is on pace for two back to back gains for the week, week after week. losses for the s&p and nasdaq. and as we finish out the week on this friday, it has felt like a volatile one, but the dow is going to close higher. s&p and nasdaq will close lore. that's going to do it for us. "kudlow" is next. ♪ ♪ >> hello, folks, and welcome to a potential edition of "kudlow." i'm sean duff duffy in for larry kudlow are. attorney general merrick garland

dani: we have hurt people from gary gensler on this program talking about fraud being rife within crypto allow more etf's and more trading and also at the same time try to accomplish that aim of protecting consumers? sonali: the difficult part of this is that the ship has left the station. you are looking at the industry outside of bitcoin really boom. outside of spot bitcoin, you are looking at the derivatives market having boosted meaningfully where future ccs have taken off in such a meaningful way. there has been a massive debate about that. is it safer to invest in derivative products or more direct exposure to spot etf's? alix: are we in a world that's were we in a world where certain asset managers could not allocate unless there was enough of an etf? sonali: custody has been a problem. the idea of could or could not -- you've seen some of the biggest houses in the world the reticence, the biggest banks be reticent to adopt crypto in a meaningful way and really be reticent to push their clients into these products without a more regulated market and savor rappers like an etf. ther

what chair gensler is saying is they are looking to make sure one group of investors is not burying an outsized share of benefits in terms of fees being reduced relative to other investors. something interesting about this is if there are complex deals to cash investors sooner rather than later or transfer positions from one fund to another, which again has become fairly common practice, they will need an independent auditor to ensure a fair deal across investor basis. there are some wins for the industry. we have seen hedge funds and private equity firms lobby aggressively against the rule, which will be voted on today by a five member commission. two of those wins include the idea that investors consume more easily. they are going to try to lower it from ordinary language and's -- to ordinary negligence from gross negligence. that is not in the final rule. another win is there is a grandfathering provision which means existing rules and arrangements in effect with investors can remain in effect. these are going to be new rules. clearly, some wins for the industry. the mfa has said th

seems to be garnering more oversight from gary gensler.does seem to be garnering more oversight but i think we are fortunate in this time to say -- to have someone heading the sec for example who knows about this technology and is able to talk about it because i don't know you have that across-the-board in government. right now, if you look back at how very gansler has written about ai technology, he wrote a paper in 2020, 3 years ago, one year after farther was founded and this is when we saw all the pieces come together for ai to start delivering. he has a mission to do the here and now, protect investors. i hope as we go forward he also realizes and leans into protecting investors but also getting maximum number of people exposure to markets because it is a true miracle in markets. ed: can you explain how your technology, proprietary tech, works? i see on your website you still talk up the experience of the human advisors that work with you at farther. brad: yes. i think it's important that we fundamentally believe -- and this is from t

. >> if you degas and get inside gary gensler's mind. he used to teach a class on bitcoin at mit. is rejecting all of these. there's the point where his job is to protect investors but from what, themselves. >> i'm not a guessing man i have too many investors i only point to sec filings that is that they do not believe there is sufficient surveillance over the underlying bitcoin market. if you take a step back when the sec approved bitcoin futures etf applications they said they have enough surveillance over bitcoin because the tide between the bitcoin futures that trade on the cme group in the bitcoin market. now we believe that the sec already has the tools to approve spot coin and others. liz: blackrock everybody got kicked up about blackrock and bitcoin talked 30000 when it filed its application and had to re-file and mentioned to the surveillance company would be they mentioned coinbase. who are you mentioning azure surveillance. >> let's talk about surveillance sharing it's not from the issuer not from grayscale or but blackrock it's between coinbase and the ets nasdaq nyse

. >> gary gensler is not a big fan of cryptocurrency.or case recently in court where he was trying to argue that while the cryptocurrencies was a security and he lost the case. i think the sec has not been able to convince the government yet or these courts that cryptocurrency is such a dangerous thing. a lot of people in the government never thinking gary gensler will not be the chairman of the sec forever. tom: other guys will just wait him out? >> i think that's the strategy is to wait out regulators. lisa: that seems to be something that has worked given the turnover we have seen. we've been talking all week about banks losing talent to private equity and to the severe of debt and equity that has continued to take more and more market share. have you seen that accelerate recently as people really take a look at what they can earn and the potential opportunities in your world? >> some of the large investment banks like goldman sachs and others have people leaving but that's relatively normal. if people leave these firms all the time,

mayor london breed announced the city is working with architecture firm gensler as she tries to revitalize downtown in a four day carnival kicks off in san francisco's civic center today. >> there's going to be food games and rides, rides including a ferris wheel, super slide and spinning teacups. the goal is for the carnival to begin to transform the area into a place where the community can come together. it starts this afternoon at 230. it runs through august 27th, and the hours vary every day. it costs $10 to get in, but you can put that money toward games, rides or food. and kids 11 and under are free. >> i like that. all right. beyonce fans, listen to this. queen bee's birthday is coming up. it's september the 4th, but instead of a birthday, it sounds like she wants fans to help her celebrate the month as is. it's a birth month. >> it's virgo season and it's virgo season, too. >> so in a post on instagram yesterday, beyonce wrote, virgo season is upon us. this tour has been such a joy. and as we approach the last month, my birthday wish is to celebrate with you wearing your most fabu

s gary gensler who has come down with fines, enforcement and lawsuits and really put crypto back on itsls. the ecosystem has been reeling. but this is the second of two major legal setbacks and cracks open the door for projects, products the sec had said were unsafe. it is about grayscale challenge in the sec's rejection of its spot etf. here is what the three-judge panel said. they said it was arbitrary and capricious because the commission failed to explain its different treatment of similar products. we also had a response from grayscale. they proclaimed victory and thanked supporters, saying it is a monumental step for investors and the crypto ecosystem. crypto went on a spectacular rally, with bitcoin surging as much as 7.7%, to reach the highest price since august 17. you look at crypto related stocks, grayscale surged 17%. coinbase which was involved in litigation with the essence see they are happy about the decision. they were up big. the biggest gain of all was for a penny stock. that is silver gate capital. it was one of the first regional banks to collapse because of its exp

this thing is a disaster it's the type of thing that gary gensler is watching.e has to call and say, we have to end this process. it's blank check merger no one even knows how many shares there are they're being redeem right now it's a complete fiasco anyone who's playing it, i've got to tell you, i got a horse right here named paul revere >> one of frank lesser -- >> i played harry the horse in the great "guys and dolls" but that's because she said i could not play sky masterson >> you would have been a great nathan, passing out the whiskey. >> vin fast is not worth anywhere near that and those who are playing it don't understand it could be another getty. it's a shame this stuff is allowed. we are america after all, and that's not an american way to have a market. it makes people -- michael from jpmorgan did a fantastic piece talking about the incredible losses from spacs. it's -- michael is spot on it's wiped out a next generation of people, spacs, mediums, and vinfast auto is worth probably $2.60. it's at $26.82 go ahead and buy it. you'll lose money. i'm of

for these rules out in may we've gotten a lot of comments that have come through on this but gary gensler to the more stringent regulatory and oversight environment we've seen in washington >> we'll see what happens. some of the rules make sense, maybe some are a little too broad. we got to get over to dom chu, looking a the some of the biggest premarket movers this morning. dom? and what's changed, by the way, in the last 10 minutes, 15 minutes. >> it's apple and amazon but other bigger moves, some of these earnings stories in the premarket action are going outside of those we want to turn to finn technical down here, coin bus, crypto currency exchange reporting a smaller. than-second loss you have shars and also beat estimate but guidance was a key pressure of operating profit, may have fallen below some estimates so we're down there. we'll end on cyber security, 350 thursday of shall assumon the revenue outlook fell shy and true and we'll keep an eye on fortnet. back to you. >> thanks. let's take another check on something else that's moving in in other big way, that's aye con nt and t

current ruling that dug into xrp and said the contracts, the trading for retail is not a security gary genslergetting nailed down on what he thinks about these things lay it out for us. tell us where you think things stand based on what the court rule and based on what the law says. >> thanks. good to be with you guys the court decision and there have been a few in the past couple of weeks really just i think validate what i've been saying for a couple of years that there needs to be action by congress so that we can fill these gaps in the crypto space and i've said as the chair of the commodity futures trading commission, we have been bringing enforcement without clear authority over the space and a huge portion and i argued up to 70% of the market is largely unregulated because they constitute commodities. >> that's got to be really frustrated as a regulator. >> it feels frustrating, certainly, but also we're bringing these enforcement cases and bringing them because we're having people come to us it gives us tips and complaints, we're not using traditional tools, registration, surveillance,

and the lawyers who work in the space have a lot of thoughts about how security laws amy and fgary gensleration of the laws. what we've seen with the case is that the s.e.c., just because they say something doesn't mean that their interpretation is correct. and when you push that to a test and push that to a court, what we're fiending is judges are not agreeing with what the s.e.c. is saying. and so i think it's very validating for those of us in this space who are trying to do the right thing, who are trying to comply with necessary laws. it provies a lot of validation that we are looking at this correctly. i think moreover it points to the need for congress to get involved in setting up a broader regulatory framework. just because the crypto industry thinks they can analyze existing laws doesn't mean they have all of the protections we want to see, so we need congress to step in and play a role. that's why we're very hopeful that we've seen some legislation move through the house finances industry and they've tried to address some of those concerns. hopefully for policy makers sitting on

>> i don't know, what's gensler's problem. think it would help, and i also was listening to jay clayton, you hear when jay was here. oh, you weren't here. the fed -- three times this week, weren't you or just twice. kelly was on twice, and you were on twice. >> yes. >> okay. >> generic female anchor. do you remember jay clayton? >> no, just knowing anything that happened earlier in the week. >> that's true. >> i can talk about things in college and high school, though, i can remember -- >> so you're at that point. >> yeah. you'll see. drug maker maker novartis, last sandoz accounted for operating profit. the division faces mounting pressures in the u.s. off patent drug sector. kelly was born in 1986. >> she's a young-in. she thinks, 4%, whoa, she thinks 4% is like, whoa. >> 4% for what? >> like an interest rate on a ten-year, i mean, if you can get 4 4%, just having seen the normal interest rate was 7, 8, 9%. >> right! and that still didn't stop stocks from being preferred in terms of building wealth long term. if you think yo