that's what rudy giuliani said today. he wasn't arguing about that statement from michael cohen, who is alleging that president trump did know about that meeting before it occurred. rudy giuliani only said that he could state for the record that president trump did not attend that meeting with chose russian officials, which is not something that was in question in the first place. it was whether or not president trump knew about it, which is something that his aides and president trump himself have denied for months now, including that president trump said he just found out about it in july of 2017, a year after it happened. and donald trump jr. testified in front of lawmakers that his father did not know about it before. so it would be increasingly problematic. that is the question now, anderson. it is essentially the president's word versus michael cohen's. but the white house does not seem to be at all enthusiastic about taking questions about michael cohen, including president trump today, who has been tweeting about

as rudy giuliani says?ng us cnn legal analyst anne milgram and garrett graph, author of the threat mate trick, inside the war on global terror. the assertion that the investigation is over, it's something frankly the trump team has been saying now for quite some time. in relative terms, though, it actually hasn't been going on that long compared to the benghazi investigation. >> right. >> compared to iran/contra. >> this investigation has actually moved very quickly. if you look at all the indictments that have been brought, tomorrow the manafort trial starts, it's moving very quickly. they're moving pieces, one piece at a time. as cases become ready, they charge them. there is no question, it's moved very quickly. you know, rudy giuliani knows this, but the investigation is over when the investigation is over. and mueller decides that there are no further leads to run down. and just because he says it's over does not make it true. >> garrick, giuliani is saying he doesn't respect credentials, talking about

mostly from rudy giuliani. the question whether or not we're going to see the president testify, i think he says it remains an open question. it's an interesting it's back on the table because a few weeks ago rudy giuliani said it's off the table. they will not allow the president to be interviewed. now it seems they have changed their minds. they say we're talking about potentially having an interview here. i think that's what mueller is always said to wrap up his case. he said that the final piece of this would be the president himself speaking about to whatever parts of the investigations they would like to hear from the president about whether it's obstruction of justice or collusion. the big question is timing. if you get that before the elections, do you then mover forward and then risk being accused of politicizing so close to an election this issue. do you wait until after the elections. in general their own candidates weaknesses in generic polling and they are worried about elections. >> this is donald

it wasn't clear if that's what giuliani was referencing. it seems probably that is what it is. >> well, it was funny. i was actually in the studio when alisyn was doing that interview, and i almost started laughing, because giuliani said, i don't know what the conflict is, but i would have recused myself if i was mueller. and i was like -- what? it was sort of peculiar. but look, i think what's important to remember about what rudy giuliani says and about -- you know, all -- what the president says, especially on twitter, is that it's designed to go into the conservative ecosphere. it's designed to get into fox news, breitbart, various websites that are supportive so that people can start saying the same thing. no such thing -- there was no collusion, and even if there was collusion, it's not a crime. you will certainly start to hear you will certainly start to hear that more often in the conservative media world. i'm sorry, go ahead, dana. >> no, no, it is. you're exactly right, it is designed to do that. i was talking to some people in th

giuliani and mr. trump through mr. giuliani accused my client, mr. cohen, of saying the word "cash," and i posted a tweet at the time, and i said wait for the tapes. richard nixon couldn't spin the tape that did him in, and there's no way that mr. giuliani, who knows from being u.s. attorney, the only people who use cash are drug dealers and mobsters. cash is not what you do, and it was michael cohen who said, no, no, no, no. and donald trump, despite what rudy giuliani said publicly, the tape contradicts mr. giuliani and the word "cash" is heard by everyone. >> now, the president's legal team disputes what is being said in this tape. they even provided us their own transcript, which we'll put up at some point. they say that the president said, do not pay with cash. check. and that he was advising cohen to do it all on the up and up because the president wanted to make sure that this was papered properly. >> i'm looking at mr. and mrs. donald trump, red america. listen to the tape. it doesn't say what you just heard. it says "cash," and it's mr. cohe

giuliani and trump. and both of them are completely incoherent when it comes to publically defending donald trump, and that makes perfect sense. what they say doesn't make perfect sense, but the fact that both giuliani and trump are incoherent in their attempts to publically defend donald trump does make a certain sense and it means that there is no evidence based defense of the president that is available to donald trump or rudy giuliani because if there was an evidence based defense available, at least one of them would use it. the country and the world are long used to the fact that donald trump is generally incoherent most of the time about most times. he could conceivably have a very good legal defense that could be presented by a good or average or below average defense lawyer. but that's not what we have here. we have donald trump who has been a public liar his entire life being defended by the newly incoherent rudy giuliani. that is a very, very big deal. and what it tells us tonight is that the

. >>> rudy giuliani's wild ride. multiple tv interviews today, three on fox news alone and tonight from the "new york times," the question, what are we witnessing? is he changing trump's defense on collusion, moving the goal post on the fly as we watch? >>> plus, paul manafort, the former trump campaign chairman faces the first trial of the mueller investigation all just hours from now. >>> and the president's threat to shut down the government. something you just don't hear when the same party controls the white house, house and senate as "the 11th hour" gets under way on a monday night. >>> good evening from our nbc news headquarters here in new york. day 557 of the trump administration, 99 days now until the mid term elections. and this might go down as the day we witnessed a change resulting in the new defense strategy. on the part of the trump team. it's about something rudolph giuliani has started to say, and tonight, mark at the "new york times" has put it this way. in the days after the 2016 presidential elec

giuliani had to walk that back. as much as the president likes him out there, he likes him muddying the waters, it is his answer to michael cohen, he wants someone out there to muddy the waters. we have seen mueller's approval rating drop. giuliani has been effective there. it has raised concerns again whether giuliani is too often ahead of his skis and causing more trouble than he is helping. >> as the former fed here at the table, how do the feds view the day that rudy giuliani had and all that he said on television? >> i think as a prosecutor i'm seeing this and i'm seeing a little bit of panic from the president and from rudy giuliani. i have seen it before when a defendant and a defense team starts to feel the facts and the evidence closing in on them and feeling like there is nowhere else to go you will see a change in tone. what has been happening? we are learning more and more about what michael cohen knows. we know the southern district has subpoenaed the long time accountant. we will hear the witnesses in

why would giuliani reveal it now? we want to begin coverage with abby phillips live at the white house with more. good morning. >> reporter: good morning. rudy giuliani went on a media blitz in an attempt to defend his client bus his statements and corrections and statements again have led to confusion, leaving white house aides concerned and trying to distance themselves from his statements. a white house official distancing the president's press team from his outside lawyer rudy giuliani telling cnn they are not coordinating after giuliani's aggressive and confusing media blitz. since the start of the investigation into potential coordination between the trump campaign and russia to interfere in the 2016 election, the message from the president's team has been the same. >> there is no collusion. there was no collusion. no collusion. no collusion. >> monday giuliani appeared to open the door to a different line of defense. >> i'm not sure if that's a crime, colluding about russians. you start analyzing the crime, the

rudy giuliani, you heard him. team trump hasn't heard back from the special counsel in more than a week, he said, what, ten days? he said it's bad faith. why do you think it's been ten days. >> thank you, erin, for your question. let me first say that nobody is above the law. that's what watergate taught us. as a former prosecutor, defendants don't get to set preconditions. the president shouldn't be setting any preconditions. he should be going through that interview the same way other defendants or subjects go through interviews with prosecutors so if there is any bad faith it would be on the part of the president and his white house counsel. >> to the point of ten days and what that means. is that bad faith from mueller? we know it had been sort of every couple of days there was a new intrigue in the saga of the back and forth on the preconditions and mueller's response. do you agree that mueller is engaging in bad faith or giving up? do you see anything sinister in this? >> i think the preconditions that we've

as far as giuliani, they say you can't con a con man, and rudy giuliani should have known what michael a feather. >> what about the chances that donald trump jr. could be brought back to congress and the level of trouble that he might really be? ? can you weigh in on that? >> only in the senate. the house will not do it. the house judiciary committee has done nothing to look at election interference and nothing to look at the trumps. the one committee that should be working on this has done nothing. he had testified before, i think, senate and house intel both, and he may be called back. if he does, i suspect he'd lie again. in the clips i've seen of him, he looks as guilty as he can be. >> in the last half an hour or so, he was talking about protecting the election. meanwhile, you had republicans who passed down all additional funding this week to protect the state and local elections. in your opinion, what do you think it's going to take to get this whole issue taken seriously on capitol hill? >> well, it's going to take republicans and paul ryan and the freedom caucus to have a come

giuliani seems to be confused.ttorney-client privilege and has repeatedly and inaccurately talked about the recording whereby forfeiting all confidentiality. giuliani says cohen is violating attorney-client privilege. but then davis argues, no, they're not. who's correct in. >> last week giuliani and his team said they were waiving privilege on this recording and a few other recordings as well. so there's there seems to be no claim of privilege attached to this recording. secondly, the this recording is evidence of a crime, there is no privilege whatsoever. so attorney-client privilege does not attach. it does seem to me his team are trying to intimidate michael cohen. but i think on the issue of these recordings there's no privilege at play. >> so attorney-client privilege, that should be a moot point on this one. what about giulianiing about the recorded conversation between cohen and then candidate trump, let's listen to that. >> i used to hear rumors about him, about his character and some of the things he did.

is rudy giuliani -- what's he doing? is he actually acting as the president's lawyer here or what is going on? did somebody get to him and say, oh, wait, no, no, no, you misspoke or we're not telling anyone about that yet? >> the person controlling the overall communication strategy is obviously the president. there's no sort of infrastructure that would dictate anything else. so again, i go back to my original point, it's not clear what his strategy is here. it's not clear what he's trying to do. it's difficult to discern what his motives are. >> if people are confused, is giuliani winning? >> yes. >> yes. >> i do think so. >> it's just adding more uncertainty into the situation. >> it muddies the waters and that's his goal. but to your original question about did he get a message saying that he made a mistake? i think so, because two days before the june 9th meeting is the day donald trump stood there and said he's going to have dirt on hillary clinton on monday and miraculously didn't have anything on monday because d

rudy giuliani recognizes the biggest threat is not the legal action. we know that mueller is not going to indict the president. rudy giuliani recognizes that the biggest threat is the political action. the way american voters respond when they get whatever information mueller surfaces. rudy giuliani is trying to get in front of that. >> i want to remind how the white house keeps on changing its story. let's start on 2016 of november. home hicks said "there was no communication" and back in 2017 sanders, "to the best of our knowledge, there was no communication." and donald trump jr. denied any campaign related meetings and a month later he admitted a me meeting with the russians and a day later he admits that the campaign was discussed but no meaningful information was shared. september of last year, don jr. says i did not tell my dad about the meeting. today rudy giuliani says, president trump did not participate in the that meeting. put all of this together, where does it lead us? >> it is a remarkable evolution you are describing there, chris, and b

. >> we have some more rudy giuliani coming up. chuck, thanks for that. you guys stay with us, if you will. when we come back, is the president's former fixer ready to cooperate with prosecutors? michael cohen's new attorney now weighing in, taking aim today at donald trump and rudy giuliani. >>> also ahead, from handshakes to gangster talk, is it time to start worrying again about north korea? the president said the threat was over. >>> and later, growing concern about the president's eagerness to please vladimir putin. man: it takes a lot of work to run this business, but i really love it. i'm on the move all day long, and sometimes i don't eat the way i should. so i drink boost to get the nutrition i'm missing. boost high protein now has 33% more protein, along with 26 essential vitamins and minerals. and it has a guaranteed great taste. man: boost gives me everything i need to be up for doing what i love. boost high protein. be up for it. boost high protein. i saw my leg did not look right. i landed. i was just finishing a ride

>> i see rudy giuliani reasoning here. he wouldn't call it hush money, but negotiating a confidenti confidentiality agreement with someone who has a claim with you is not illegal. unless the purpose of the payment is really political in nature and is not reported subsequent. and then you could have a crime. as i say, we need more to look at this. if i were now counsel to the president, is whether jewel yampb any, by publicly discussing this conversation as the agent of the president now, has waved the attorney-client privilege. and may in fact by that published statement make it very, very easy now for prosecutors to say, this is an admissible item of evidence and because the attorney-client privilege had been waived. >> let's quickly go around the table and we know how when the white house enter into damage control mode, we now have giuliani who's your legal front person, what is the president going to do about this? >> paul makes a point about whether or not what giuliani has now said opens the door to use of this tape.

rudy giuliani still talking. now, he's float iing the idea oa meeting before the meeting with the russians at trump tower. where did that come from? plus, a fire half the size of new york city burning so hot it's creating its own weather patterns, destroying almost 1,000 buildings, taking more lives. the scene in kcalifornia. as thousands go through hell to get out. >>> welcome, everyone. we begin this afternoon with the politics lead. the chairman of the senate judiciary committee, chuck grassley, was minutes ago asked whether the president's son, donald trump jr., may have misled members of congress. as you know, the president's former lawyer, michael cohen, sources say, claims that president trump knew about the trump tower meeting with the russian lawyer promising dirt on hillary clinton ahead of time. they have strongly denied that. quote, if he misled the committee, he's lying to congress. a crime. grassley said about donald trump jr. and that would be up to the prosecutors. not me. a remarkable statement b

and he's now sucking rudy giuliani down into that vortex. because giuliani looked terrible. doing everything he could to call michael cohen a liar. every single person who ever had a child knows that all human beings walking this earth have lied at some point. in some weight he maybe telling truth. we have all the people whether it's cohen, allen who is just rudy giuliani. everyone. everyone who touched by donald trump is disgraced by him. >> you have set up a the sound bite i want to play. this is giuliani now describing michael cohen. >> that's part of the human condition. we make mistakes. people turn out to be disloyal. benedict around was disloyal to george washington. go back to ancient classical literature. you find people you think you trust. i saw the president when he found out he had been taped. and the president was completely shocked. >> i believe that. >> he wasn't angry. president trump can get angry. he was disappointed. like a father betrayed by his son. >> that is some dramatic language there. is this a threat to cohen in effect saying he's fwoing to pay a

and why would giuliani reveal it now? we have it all covered this morning. let's begin with cnn abby phillip live at the white house with more. >> good morning, david. december pile alisyn's valiant attempts to sort this all out, giuliani's media blitz only added to the confusion. he tried to defend his client but left some in fact white house wondering what exactly he was trying to accomplish. >> reporter: a white house official distancing the president's press team from his outside lawyer rudy giuliani. telling cnn, they are not coordinating after giuliani's aggressive and confusing media blitz. since the start of the investigation into potential coordination between the trump campaign and russia to interfere in the 2016 election, the message from the president's team has been the same -- >> there is absolutely no collusion. >> there was no collusion. >> there's no collusion. no collusion. >> reporter: but monday, giuliani appeared to open the door to a different line of defense. >> i don't know if that's a crime, colluding about russians. you start analyz

jim, giuliani seems to be trying muddy the waters! you can be forgiven for being confused as to what giuliani was attempting to confirm and attempting to dispute. we now have a new statement, this coming from donald trump jr.'s attorney. i'm going read that now, he says quote, we have investigating this matter for over a yearened are in command of facts. we are confident of the information that has been provided by donald trump jr. in various investigations. so that there comeing from the president's son. seeking to stick by his public comments, which i'll remind have said he did not tell his father about that meeting in trump tower in 2016. you heard a number of different stories from the president's attorney. >> in a perplexing revelation today, the president's lawyer outlined a previously unknown meeting among high level trump campaign operatives in the days prior to the infamous june 2016 trump tower sit-down with russians. only to turn around and say the get together he had just brought up never actually happened . >> it wasn't a

rudy giuliani says. joining me by phone now, michael scm smith. >> what more can you tell us about the reporting here? >> this was the stuff that was seized by michael cohen's office. the feds went in and took stuff from his office. this is one of those things. michael helcohen did this secre two months before the election. they're discussing what would be a second payment to the model. the second payment that would ensure her silence going forward. this was after the nationa national -- this was another payment and a second payment. >> do you we know why michael cohen would be recording donald trump secretly. >> no, that's an interesting question. why would a lawyer be recording a conversation with someone. that could be seized. we know michael cohen had a history recording a lot of different conversations to a lot of different people but why on such a sensitive thing would he secretly do this. was he doing it as a way to have leverage on the president later or was he doing it in a way of protecting him

giuliani say? strong accusations there. >> the more we hear from rudy giuliani, the more it's clear that his role is to be the public relations lawyer as opposed to the legal adviser. you know, the suggestion that the investigation is tainted, i think he's referring to former fbi agent peter strzok, or the agent that was formally involved in the investigation, who has been off the investigation for over a year. you know, robert mueller is the lead investigator here, who was appointed by rod rosenstein, who himself was appointed by president trump. so the idea that this group is viciously out to get the president, i think, is nonsensical and is really, instead, a pr campaign, as opposed to reflecting reality. >> okay. let's look at what rudy giuliani is saying with regard to having his legal as opposed to pr hat on. and that is that special counsel robert mueller needs to prove factual basis for the investigation and that his client's testimony is essential to completing the probe. so, is mueller le

giuliani. trump reiterated the claim along side the prime minister of italy saying if he doesn't get that big beautiful wall, he is prepared to do a shutdown. listen. >> after many, many years of talk within the united states, i would have no problem doing a shutdown. it's time we had proper border security. >> when republican leadership was asked about this, they collectively said meh. john thune said i hope it is a negotiating tactic. i recognize the look of the republican leadership. it is one my kids give me when i make a completely hollow threat. what do you make of the reaction of republicans based on the threat of the shutdown? >> on one hand it is understandable. donald trump from the very beginning said he wants the border wall. that is his main brand. republicans have not delivered on. that on the other hand, donald trump is in interesting territory. what he is in danger of doing is implying to his base. those people in the house and senate cannot give me a border walla as it is. why

the president certainly, rudy giuliani. the pressure on mueller to deliver, is it important for him to deliver something before the campaign season really starts in earnest after labor day? let me go first to you, joyce. yeah. >> there's a difference between political pressure and legal pressure. barb and i have both been involved in public corruption and white collar cases. they are slow moving. it's surprising to see mueller produce the volume of indictments he has in just this period of time since he was appointed. particularly because these are complex cases that involve foreign actors. from a legal point of view, anyone who is scoring mueller would give him an a-plus for the amount of progress he's made. as you point out, the political side of the calculus is a little bit different. and there is a lot of pressure both from the hill and a desire in the public to see things move more rapidly than typically prosecutors would be able to conclude this sort of complex sort of a case. and it's made even more important with th

>> so i have a new nickname for rudy giuliani, i call him slow-roll giuliani because every time these was trump sitting for an interview with robert mueller and the team, the line gets pushed back and back. i want to remind everybody, giuliani is the lawyer, but it is not the law that mueller has to give all the evidence that shows that donald trump has committed a crime prior to donald trump sitting for an interview. i recall the fact that former president clinton negotiated conditions under which he sat for an interview with ken starr, the special prosecutor back then. however, the conditions included things like closed circuit television feed during the course of the interview. it did not include things like giuliani saying, hey, mueller, show me the evidence before donald trump will sit down. it becomes a non-starter i believe for the robert mueller team. at that rate, why not prosecute donald trump for a crime if you have probable cause that he has committed that crime? >> that's interesting. i'm trying to figure out then who reasoning behind the request and whether or not giulia

giuliani, you're with us? >> how are you?> harris: i'm doing fantastic and i know you have your hands full with a whole lot and i went to get right to the questions if i can. do you want to first on earth with the statement because we certainly want to talk about what's happening this morning so take it away. >> let's begin and with that someone said today there is no collusion and therefore that collusion also is no crime, i've been saying that very beginning, it's a very familiar lawyer's argument that the alternative, my client didn't do it and even if he did it, it's not a crime. and i have said that over and over. collusion is not a crime. the only crime is hacking and is ridiculous to think of the president hacked. why do i say that? i say that to attack the legitimacy of the investigation because it has become crystal clear this investigation that began with peter strzok has been continued as an illegitimate investigation and someday, we may have to prove it is. second thing that i wanted to correct, said why would we

you heard giuliani say today that collusion is not a crime. that waters down the president's denial of links between him is the kremlin, which goes to the heart of the mueller investigation. >>> i want to get back to the trump tower meeting and why rudy giuliani is suddenly talking about it. as one fox news host says to giuliani, no one asked about this. here's giuliani. >> two alleged meetings. fist meeting, group of people, not the president. that group of people says the meeting didn't take place. the only person who has alleged it is cohen. second meeting at the presidential office. in walks donald trump jr., says, let's meet with the russians. didn't take place. >> ken delaney is joining me. giuliani's deliberately muddying the waters here, first of all, talking about collusion. saying he didn't collude, if he did, it wouldn't be a crime. denying donald trump was at a meeting. nobody alleges he was there. there is a method to what itd could be called madness. >> as confusing as this was, i think i understood what he's saying. two meetings

giuliani and trump.f them are completely incoherent when it comes to publically defending donald trump, and that makes perfect sense. what they say doesn't make perfect sense, but the fact that both giuliani and trump are incoherent in

if you watch chris cuomo with rudy giuliani this evening, donald trump is now sucking rudy giuliani down into that vortex because rudy giuliani looked terrible doing everything he could to call michael cohen a liar. every single person who has a child knows that all human beings walking on this earth have lied at some point. cohen may be telling the truth. we got all these people whether it is cohen, rudy giuliani and everyone who's touched by donald trump is disgraced by him. >> you set up a sound bite that i want to play now. this is rudy giuliani describing donald trump. >> anybody can -- you can go back to ancient times where you can find people that you think you trust. i saw the president when he first found out that he had been taped and he was shocked. >> i believe that. >> he was not angry. >> he was not angry. he was disappointed like a father could be betrayed by his son. >> that's a dramatic language. is this a threat to cohen in effect to rudy giuliani saying he's going to pay the price? micha micha michael cohen is not worried of what rudy giuliani say on tv show as oppose

you have rudy giuliani and now -- >> but there's more. >> now you have the giuliani reaction to that. what did he say? >> he responded directly. i sent him lanny davis' tweet and he respond ed by text sayin the following. the truth will set you free. the president did nothing wrong with michael the cohen. everything has been a dead end because there's no there. so this fit for tat is going on here. the important thing to note as we go back and forth on who might know something, who might not know something, what's the truth, so on and so forth, this is michael cohen we're talking about. and michael cohen was up until, i don't know, what time is it, an hour ago, was about as close as you can get to donald trump from his perspective. he absolutely adored donald trump. said publicly he would do anything for donald trump. and did a lot of things for him. and the fact that we are at this level of criticism kind of going back and forth through us about what the other should think about and talk about or maybe not think about or talk about with the feds is really remarkable to see how far we

but the strategy with rudy giuliani, you know, he's baffling to me. is he his lawyer, a buddy, a policy guy, just someone who won't go away? every time he opens his mouth, to me he steps in it. he makes factual statements, legally preproceosterous claims does it in a half sinister way. it seems like he's freelancing, then it seems like he's speaking for the president. it is true that these kind of statements to cohen have a sinister tone. that's what they are intended to do. >> and again, we're hearing from michael cohen. they're taking this as a threat right now at this point. certain hi starting to sound like threats. >> i don't think rudy giuliani is functioning right now as an attorney to the president, he's functioning as a spokesman. he's the attack dog on cable news, taking the fight to the president's enemies, which may include michael cohen. that's his role and function. the sad part, is it's working. public confidence in the investigation is going down. he's chipping away at the credibility in the public's mind of this effort. >> i think the

you know -- >> do you that i flood is having conversations with giuliani or do you think giuliani isrk? >> i think this is asfonishing that giuliani has now referred to what he called him emmitt. he acts liar thash working together. it's hard to imagine they're working together. but he said that emmitt flood had asked -- had been the one to make it so john kelly didn't have to testify. now that's the first witness as far as i can tell that they had in i reservations about giving over to mueller. jared kushner met with them and so forth. so john kelly who wasn't part of the campaign who is chief of staff and so is associated with the white house which emmitt flood is charged with protecting. emmitt flood is not charged with -- he's a government employee. he's a public serve anlt. he's in charge of protecting the white house. giuliani is a personal attorney to donald trump and in some cases private citizen mr. trump and, you know, it spills over into president trump. but they're just playing different games. >> danny, also this morning on "meet the press," giuliani said that there are

as for giuliani, he is claiming collusion is not a crime. this point first arose last may after trump fired director james comey said that he was asked to tend investigation into the recently fired national security adviser mike flynn. boom. then doj appointed bob mueller the special counsel the next day. trump's colossal mistake, taking the one and only possible action that could launch that probe into his white house. it changed the whole arc of his presidency. it spawned the cottage industry of trump legal actions and discussion from former prosecutors explaining this probe into his conduct. we'll have that in a moment. to his allies experimenting on tv with all kinds of defenses and some are better than others. if you say trump was a rookie and he didn't know what his campaign was up to, if true, that's a decent legal defense. if you say trump did collude and that's not a crime, that is not a decent legal defense because it's not true and it makes you sound guilty. so here's how that one got started on fox news. >> i've said it before an

it's curious that rudy giuliani could take this approach. >> you know what it a minds me of is rudy giuliani talking to sean hannity about the stormy daniels payment. seems like there's so much going on that rudy giuliani might have a hard time keeping things straight. is that unfair? >> giuliani has proven himself an unreliable narrater on things that happened to donald trump. he talked to sean thantive. he said that about the stormy daniels payment. then tried to pied to pedal it . we are seeing that. this is something we got wrong, he read something wrong, or this is significant. a story is about to drop and he is trying, unsuccessfully, to get out ahead of it. this raises the question about the significant of that meeting and what it could mean or it speaks to how effective a spokesperson rudy giuliani is being for the president. >> it's an interesting issue because it violates an old defense attorney rule, which is after their first or second meeting with your client, don't be married to their facts. defense attorneys will tell you, clients burn you all the time. they give you the versi

giuliani seems to be accused. he waived attorney-client privilege inaccurately as proved by the tape, talked about the recording forfeiting all confidentiality. >>> president trump is hitting the campaign trail for vulnerable republican candidates 100 days ahead of the midterms. it's unclear if he will hurt or help the districts where he is unpopular with voters. kelly o'donnell has more. >> reporter: presidential pitchman. >> you have to vote republican, people. >> reporter: donald trump talking big with an ambitious midterm. >> i'll go six or seven days a week when we are 60 dais out. >> reporter: trying to activate his own base with control of congress at steak. >> i will be campaigning for all these great people who have a difficult race. >> reporter: a poll finds voters in michigan, minnesota and wisconsin clearly favor democrats in congressional races. though trump won two of those states, his disapproval rating is north of 50%. the president readily injects campaign plugs into government elections. >> the b

that was the clearest version of what giuliani said. again, he is talking about a meeting two days before the trump tower dirt on hillary meeting. giuliani did a shorter riff on this on fox news in which he coins the phrase "the russia transaction." >> he did not participate in any meeting about the russia transaction. >> the president. >> the president did not. and the other people at the meeting that he claims he had without the president about it say he was never there. >> important part to get here is the meeting that happened didn't happen because i talked to people in the meeting and they said there was no meeting. an initial strategy meeting was not attended by trump according to giuliani. the timing here is key. june 9th, 2016, a thursday, that of course is the infamous trump tower meeting following e-mails promising dirt on hillary clinton as part of the russian government's effort to get trump elected. now, two days prior to that, june 7th, a tuesday, that is the day there may have been apparently a strategy session to prepare

and today, the president's current lawyer, rudy giuliani, offered a new message. it doesn't matter if the president colluded, because collusion, giuliani says, is not a crime. >> i've been sitting here looking in the federal code trying to find collusion as a crime. >> it's not. >> collusion is not a crime. >> reporter: it's a message giuliani repeated throughout the day. >> you don't even know if that's a crime, colluding about russ russians. >> okay -- >> you start analyzing the krip. the hacking is the crime. the hacking is the crime. >> that certainly is the original crime. >> the president didn't hack. >> of course not. >> he didn't pay them for hacking. >> reporter: giuliani's meandering and confounding interviews followed a series of tweets from the president blasting special counsel robert mueller. "is robert mueller ever going to release his conflicts of interest with respect to president trump," the president tweeted, "including the fact that we had a very nasty and contentious business relationship." the president offered no evidence and did not even sa

giuliani. and here's why i say that.ard that the tape will completely exonerate the president. then mr. giuliani turns around and says well the tape was doctored. and this is a common refrain. we heard mr. giuliani say michael cohen is a good and honest lawyer and then he turns around and says michael cohen is an absolute liar. but if i can drill down on one thing mr. giuliani said on tv this morning, i think it tends to highlight exactly what we're dealing with here. and what mr. giuliani's real intent s here's one thing he said this morning. i wrote it down. i'll quote it. i don't want to be inaccurate. mr. giuliani this morning said that "michael cohen said the following, i only made the payment that being the ami, karen mcdougal payment, because i personally love the president and milana and that's why i made the payment." mr. giuliani then props that up as gospel. take it to the bank. and because he said that, the president is completely exonerated from campaign finance violations. this is the typical bait and switc

giuliani's argument, however-s a matter of semantics. whatever word you use to describe it, if the president advanced russia's criminal cyberattack on the united states, they could be considered co-conspirators as agents of the kremlin. and conspiracy, by the way, mr. president and your lawyer, is a crime. separately, in a bizarre twist, giuliani also broke some news today. he said he heard from three reporters that miking cohen is alleging that top-level campaign staff met to discuss russian help before the infamous meeting at trump tower, before. two meetings. yet at the same time giuliani revealed the news of an alleged second meeting. he simultaneously denied that it ever took place. >> there was another meeting that has been leaked but hasn't been public yet. >> okay. >> that was a meeting, an alleged meeting, three days before. according to cohen, he says there was a meeting with donald jr., with jared kushner, with paul manafort, with gates, and possibly two others in which they out of the presence of the president discussed a mee

rudy giuliani and lanny davis using the airways to snipe at each other. >> whatever spin rudy giuliani is trying to spin it says cash. why is giuliani dips marriaging michael cohen? because they fear him. >> i don't see how he has any credibility. which lie do you want to pick. the first lie, the second lie or the third lie? howie: joining us is guy benson. sara fischer, a media report for axios. and adrienne elrod. we'll drill down to the details in a minute. does this warrant the intensity of media coverage? guy: i think the president's trusted flipper and lawyer apparently flipping on him is a big story. him telling mueller something, is that a big story? we have to see evidence. if it's michael cohen making a claim about something he thinks mueller wants to hear now that he's in the cross-hairs and he has skin to save. cohen has always been loyal to trump so for him to say this about trump is important. howie: sara, the media loves this particular story because it's sex, lies, and audiotape. sara: the concept of betrayal is something that's always going to grip viewers. but could t

is that trump and giuliani definition of truth?s an oxymoron. stay tuned. >> i'm shocked lawyers would sit there and say tell the truth. of course they are. rudy giuliani is confident he'll tell the truth. lahnee davis is not just a great lawyer, he's good at communication and media strategy, which is why we're talking about things today. >> exactly. he did his job. >> he's sending a tweet saying tell the truth. at the end, tell the truth, which is what everyone should do. >> i hope so. >> we can agree to that. i think there are plenty of people in the world of washington and lawyers again, it's good strategy. >> giuliani said he wants to see all the texts between the members of bob mueller's team. i'll bet a dinner that there will be bias like we saw where they're anti-trump personal views were extremely clear in text. is that fair or is that moving the goal post to ask for those texts? >> i think every time you go into public service at every level, local, state and federal, you have to assume that every text message, every e-mai

as lawyers what we have is our credibility and giuliani at this point has zero. that is troubling to me. to the tape and to your question, the fact is that sh, you know, look. the lawyers want to question the authenticity of a tape but to suggest we have proof, it's altered, and tampered with. the fact this is a distinction to be clear, between tampering with, which suggests and implies an alteration of something, and abruptly shutting it off, which might suggest that it's being viewed not in the context in which it should. and so if you want to make that representation and argument, fair game, please do so. but don't throw out these wild conspiracy theories. the last thing i'll say we are living in altered reality. i've never seen it this bad. alternative facts and people can throw out theorys what they want and the president telling lies every day. let's level with the american people. law is about getting in the arena and people have different perspective and different point of view and make your argument and advocate for your client and let's not confuse and

after giuliani urged cohen to tell the truth. is cohen about to turn on the president? >>> gangster's paradigm. secretary of state pompeo dismisses north korea's characterization of his quote gangster-like mindset in talks. in his meeting with the rkim regime accomplish anything? >>> growing urgency for the last four boys and their coach out of a flooded cave in thailand before the water rises even higher. why is the effort on pause right now? i'm wolf blitzer. you're in "the situation room." >>> the breaking news this hour, sources telling cnn president trump selected the nominee for the supreme court and a process is now under way to get that person and the family to the white house for the president's announcement less than four hours from now. we'll talk about that, much more with senator jeff flake of the judiciary and foreign relations committees and our correspondents, specialists and analysts also standing by. first, let's get straight to our chief white house correspondent gym acosta. what are you picking up over there a

rudy giuliani.nce again unleashed upon the world this weekend, and he was a man with one mission, destroy the reputation of the guy who used to have his job. >> the man is a liar, a prove -- a proven liar. there's no way you're gonna bring down the president of the united states on the testimony, uncorroborated, of a proven liar. >> one of the biggest liars in america. the guy is unethical, a scumbag, a horrible person. >> trevor: which is why president trump hired him in the first place. ( laughter ) ( applause ) that's why he's here, let's be honest -- (as rudy giuliani). so rudy giuliani goes on tv and says cohen is and always was a lying scumbag, but what's great is how cnn was ready for him. >> let me just play for you the things you have said about michael cohen, who you are now going after in no uncertain terms. >> the man is an honest, horrible lawyer. michaelas going to tell the truth. the man is a pathological manipulator, liar. >> okay, so which one is it? >> george washington would have