the question is, and it's always a question in our politics from a govern to goldwater in both parts. someone could be more nominatable than electable. how do you sell governor perry to bucks county. who tend of the day dispeas -- >> charlie: an america and independent america. >> correct. >> charlie: because of the social conservatives and other views. >> correct. and i don't know the answer to that. he has a terrific story to tell on jobs to the extent that he defines himself as the job creator in texas. tation is one of three states, only three states that today has more jobs than it had when the recession began. >> charlie: i know that's a fact. why is that? >> it's partly basic friendally climate. >> charlie: in terms of taxation. >> it's a right to work state. the whole thing comes together. >> charlie: so you've used this term,tation exceptionalism. clearly the goveor will use it. >> yes. >> what about american exceptionalism. >> i profoundly believe on it. >> charlie: has it been tarnished? >> i don't think so. the president famously when asked about this said well i think the

consider what happened in 1964 when the republican party was enthralled with berry goldwater, nelson rockefeller, the governor of new york was practically run off stage when he tried to warn the party about the perils of going too far to the right. >> the republican party is in real danger of subversion by a radical, well-financed -- we have no program for america, no program for the republican party, no program to keep the peace and bring freedom to the world. >> shortly after that speech, republican delegates dominated goldwater. he went on to lose to lyndon johnson. no presidential candidate from either party has managed a bigger electoral victory since. joining me now, msnbc analyst and "the huffington post" reporter alex wagner. >> it's a pleasure to be here. >> that moment of film with nelson rockefeller is amazing from me that that's from 1964, because it feels like he could be talking about the tea party right now. >> sure. >> so when huntsman takes this role, whoa, we are going too far to the right. what is the audience, what gap is he trying to fill? >> huntsman said i'm a

you're back to barry goldwater in 1964. what happened today when you had a sense of compromise is equal to rockefeller agreeing with barry goldwater and joining. that's almost what you have right now, but it's not surprising. >> goldwater gets the last laugh in that encounter. wayne slater, senior political writer for the dallas morning news. thank you for dropping by. >> great to be with you. >>> recall elections are rapidly approaching in wisconsin to counter governor scott walker's union-busting agenda. "the ed show" have the latest gomts. it it benefits tens of millions of women. come to think of, men. some good news up next. ugh, my feet are killin' me. well, we're here to get you custom orthotic inserts. dr. scholl's custom fit orthotic center recommends the custom-fit orthotic that's best for your tired feet. foot-care scientists are behind it. you'll get all-day relief. for your tired achy feet. for locations, see drscholls.com. thank you... >>> this is what people think about what has been happening in washington o

republican delegates nominated goldwater.went on to lose to lyndon johnson who won with an astonishing 60% of the vote. no presidential candidate has done that since. >> alex wagner. >> it is a pleasure to be here. >> it's lovely to see you. we were distracted earlier before the shot talking about all that of. that film with nelson rockefeller is amazing that's from 1964. it feels like he could be speaking about the tea party right now. >> sure. >> so when huntsman takes this roll and says, whoa, we are going too far to the right, who is the audience for that? what gap is he trying to fill? >> huntsman in std aid in that interview i'm the center right candidate for a center right country. that is very much tdb. if you look at the footage and we see how far this country and this party, the republican party has come to the right, i mean, it is now -- we're in a position where ronald reagan on a lot of things looks like a moderate. george w. bush worked with teddy kennedy to pass no child behind. i mean, that was a handful of ye

you're back to barry goldwater in 1964.oday when you had a sense of compromise is equal to rockefeller agreeing with barry goldwater and joining. that's almost what you have right now, but it's not surprising. >> goldwater gets the last laugh in that encounter. wayne slater, senior political writer for the dallas morning news. thank you for dropping by. >> great to be with you. >>> recall elections are rapidly approaching in wisconsin to counter governor scott walker's union-busting agenda. "the ed show" have the latest gomts. it it benefits tens of millions of women. come to think of, men. some good news up next. ♪ let me entertain you ♪ let me make you smile ♪ let me do a few tricks ♪ some old and then some new tricks ♪ ♪ i'm very versatile ♪ so let me entertain you ♪ and we'll have a real good time ♪ [ male announcer ] with beats audio and flash, you can experience richer music and download movies straight to the new hp touchpad with webos. and download movies straight to the new hp touchpad it's true. you never forget y

conservatives and you know now they want to claim to be in the tradition of ronald reagan or even goldwater and it's natural and accepted because they've ended up in the leadership position yeah generally and why are they supporting that why do we ave a see you that hires a guy like christopher mileages easy that says so the g.o.p. or the conservative ten rather than a c. pac go proud is not welcome the gay republican group the economist john birch society is not welcome libertarians get harassed if not banned where does that come from you know all right now you've got a multi-sided civil war going on on the right and among the establishment conservatives like those associated with the american conservative union on the one hand you know there's a temptation and it's actually created by some of the people who are most critical of for example ron paul and the anti statist antiwar movement that he leads there's a temptation to identify everyone who's an insurgent who is outside the mainstream as being a liberal. hereon we're being a part of the ron paul movement and i think you find actually

i understand sometimes bob goldwater is the only option. i am hoping this will help cut costs elsewhere. >> i heard you say and $800,000 contract, so i am glad to hear it is and $80,000 contract. any other comments? >> no. this is for tap water, so why would we need awful water? -- awful water -- bottled water? >> there are a small amount of schools but have water now because of some plumbing issues. >> i go to places where they have those things let look like they've got it but is -- things get look like they bought it, but it is filled with tap water, because i think our water in san francisco is great, so i do not know why we need to buy bottled water. you can use the same fountain. you can fill the bottled water with have water and put it in. >> there may be a particular issue with plumbing in a few schools that we are addressing as they are modernized, and once that happens we will be able to use the tap water, because the plumbing will have been modernized. that is a small number. i think we all enjoy it, so we will do our best to mak

but it is not surprising. >> goldwater gets the last laugh in that encounter.cal writer for the dallas morning news. thank you for dropping by. >> great to be with you. >>> recall elections are rapidly approaching. the ed show will have the latest developments after this show. and here the best new thing in the world today benefits tens of millions of women. and come to think of it, men. good news up next. [ melody ] the bar is raised for everybody in an ap class, from the teachers to the students. i had a student the other day that said... "miss stacy, this class is changing the way that i look at things." sparking that interest and showing them that math and science are exciting... it's why i teach. ♪ i know they can, even when they think they can't. ♪ you could save a bundle with geico's multi-policy discount. geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. ♪ geico, saving people money on more than just car insurance. >> announcer: there's a new breakthrough for men experiencing hair loss. introducing the new extreme lasercomb from hair club. it'

. >> shooting from the lip -- >> also, could he be another barry goldwater, who appeals to it narrow range -- >> but he is a proven vote- getter anin texas -- >> i used to think he was the one populist demagogue who could win the national election. his first week was not encouraging on that. may be is just the first week, maybe he will learn from his mistakes. the texas story is a good story and he has a big personality and people like big personalities. >> when you examine it, which people have been happy to do, not just democrats, even his electoral record, he won at 13 points, at e ermous over the course of the elections. but it is a totally republican state, and other republicans won by 19 points. >> perry finished ahead of romney in the iowa straw poll. if you are romney, how do you play this guy? right now he is basically ignoring and talks about the president. >> the ignoring strategy is correct. he has a field of people running to be his challenger. it is like boxing, who is going to get that title fight? why should he wait in? -- wawdde in. it is the right strategy as of now

>> because of the possibility of another goldwater debacle like '64.he more people find out how conservative rick perry is, gives a great speech, excites the base, but i think he frightens enough independents and ex sights enough liberals that it would help obama at a time when he does need help. >> get from arence and eleanor is eleanor didn't -- mitt romney has an acceptability i think to an awful lot of people in the center and on the right. i think in a race with obama right now, he would win because the country would say, okay, we're going to take a chance with him. about but the other republicans have very sharp edges, which in a general election would be exposed, and you'd have a closer contest. >> okay. obama's albatross, the economy? >> the congressional budget office reported this week that unemployment will remain high between now and the end -- question, why is the public lost faith in president obama? is strictly the economy or more than the economy, like are the voters who voted for change not seeing the change? >> democrats are still sti

changes as information moves at the speed a lot of this is not the left i mean this is stuff the barry goldwater we're very concerned with this could be an aggregation of this massive power outage that you know where a corporation can accumulate wealth well passable that's why there are limitations on that power and not right corporations we are considered business records just didn't see it as we both said in this one thousand nine hundred forces f.c.c. kate. yes in which you know the high court said no corporations don't have a right to privacy that your i have so there are limitations to those rights that it was ordering and so it's put as it's going to be and it's going to be nuanced with a point in time is that in the end if we want to do all the good things that the left talks about in terms of regulating these corporations and tamping down and making sure that they are behaving properly in the environment in the legal world and in the world we all have to live we have to treat them in a certain way we have to sort of give them to school so real so little i don't know nothing with respect

and you know who goldwater is. the audience punctuated the deanyone el deanyone el deanyone else -- said where's our party. and who will make it necessary to march in the streets of birmingham? where's the political party that will protect the citizens of albany, georgia? do you know in albany, georgia nine of our leaders have been indicted not by dixiecrats but by the federal government. what did the federal government when deputy sheriff beat cb kane and left him for debt or when they assaulted the pregnant wife of slater kane and she lost her baby and the crowd joined in to give john lewis of his speech so far. he's shouting a defiant jeremiah proclaimed of the millions at the memorial and the thousands watching on tv. we cannot be patient we do not want our freedom gradually but we want to be free now. we're tired. we're tired of being beaten by policemen. we are tired of seeing our people locked up in jail over and over again and then you holler be patient. we want our freedom and we want it now and he had to

most of us -- people in congress, barry goldwater's republican party, which turned from the party of lincoln into the party of the white south on a dime and one year in 1964. and i hope it doesn't stay because i know all kind of republicans who like to get the party of lincoln back. southern sheriffs and politicians. c-span: j.b. stoner? >> guest: ghosh, j.b. stoner, yes. if you are talking about somebody -- somebody who mix religion into an instrument of hatred like j.b. stoner there are plenty of those. they are the top of the list. c-span: you're is the book, the second and three volume series by j.b. stoner, this one called "pillar of fire" america in the teen years 1963-1965. thank you. >> guest: thank you, brian .. >> you were looking for a venue where you could use it and said it to join the most elite unit i can join, or -- i think that's one -- or maybe you felt that there was the absence of that in your life. you might have been adrift or wondering, you know, am i going the right way? am i headed for jail or a life that's not, you know, not going to really bring out all tha

that anything except the death penalty everything else huge rick constitutional robert taft barry goldwater so. at least you know what your guilt and despite his seventy five years many of his fans look like this is the man he needs to be president well i think he's a smart guy and i think he would change things and need to be changed personally would describe myself prior to being seen ron paul in the zero eight election so election cycles are a liberal democrat you know but i saw him up on stage talking you know against against the wars against you know these violations over civil liberties and why why are the democrats saying this or even this we need to fix the country we've maxed out our get ceiling as it is and then weren't too many countries and this is where it all happens a famous iowa straw poll here at iowa state university now ron paul has reportedly already sold thousands of tickets this is where he'll be spending most of tomorrow as people cast their votes most people here think he will do exceptionally well the question is can he come in first if the answer will have to wait

republican base is pushing all these tea party candidates in are they going to end up with another barry goldwater situation i think it's very possible i mean with rick perry and michele bachmann in particular. the tea party if we all recall those poll numbers of the tea party love to push back and you know two years ago a year now to go sixty five percent of americans approve of the tea party that's what sixty five percent of americans thought the tea party was what they read about in their high school or you know junior high school or elementary school textbooks right now they know what this tea party really is and they don't like it a bit carl on the democratic side is joe biden is considerably older than barack obama and it was four years that we've been over that and i think a lot of democrats think that he's a little bit of a loose cannon to be president. or maybe have characterized that run but whatever he's not generally considered to be the guy who's going to run in two thousand and sixteen is a possibility f.d.r. did this three times picked a different vice president is it possible that

goldwater conservatives. libertarian conservatives. we have these different kinds of conservatives and the genius of ronald reagan in my view is he was able to bring harmony to the cacophony of voices and unite us and focus us on what we had an comment and not what divided us. he was able to provide a cohesive fusion is done that was aided by the coalition unified interest in defeating communism and made the different factions realize if we focus on what we have in common to defeat communism, we will get there but if the war 80% of my ally you're not 20% might an emmy. we need to invoke this aspect of reagan if we focus on the taliban choice we have before us this choice of two futures and if we focus on the fiscal responsibility of growing the economy, getting jobs back to the american people and with "american individualism" this will create a new diffusionism to connect to the next generation and unite the various tribes of conservatism and attract a new generation to the republican party. alternately my book was the culmination of

goldwater conservatives. libertarian conservatives.we have all these different kinds of conservatives. and good genius of ronald reagan in my view is that he could bring harmony to the cacophony of voices and the conservative movement and unites us and focus us on what we had in common but not what divided us. he was able to provide a cohesive fusion and it was aided by the coalition unified interest to defeat communism and made all of the different factions realize if we focus on what we have in common, we will get there but did you are 80% might ally you are not 20 percent of my enemy. also that we need to invoke the aspect of reagan today. and refocus on the challenge and choice before us in 2012 if we focus on the fiscal responsibility to grow the economy and get jobs back to the american people and channel the essence of individualism, this will create a new fusion is them to unite the tribes of conservatism and attract a new generation to the republican party. my book was requested undertook research survey republican philosophy

my question is whether that divide continues ala goldwater in '64.derate and conservative republican establishment. i think it is possible somebody could do that this time around with the same disastrous consequences. >> where was a return to sound philosophy. >> that was the difference. >> i don't see barack obama carrying 44 states next year. >> i >> we are running out of time here. >> again, i go back to ronald reagan. we were ahead of ronald reagan in 32 states at the end of 1983. >> look. >> what was the final count? >> 49-1. that's because i stole the 1. >> what do you mean you stole the 1? >> no. we had a few people who were retired who voted. >> if unemployment stays where it is, and gas prices are $2 higher than they were. $4 trillion added to the deficit. you know what? you absolutely do. but there are sound, excellent candidates out there -- >> do you think that michele bachmann can beat barack obama? >> absolutely. i think that perry and romney could go after each other, ignoring michelle, like a lot of the media is. i think she could ris

my question is whether that divide continues ala goldwater in '64.blican party from the moderate and conservative republican establishment. i think it is possible somebody could do that this time around with the same disastrous consequences. >> where was a return to sound philosophy. >> that was the difference. >> i don't see barack obama carrying 44 states next year. >> i don't see a republican -- you have to look at this you keep saying generic -- >> sean: we are running out of time. he's down in florida, pennsylvania, ohio, michigan and wisconsin. that's a lot of states he has to shore up. >> back to ronald reagan we were ahead in 32 states in 1983. >> sean: what was the final count? >> 49-1. because i stole the one. >> sean: what do you mean you stole the one? >> not really. >> if unemployment stays where it is, gas prices, -- [ talking over each other ] >> there are sound excellent candidates out there -- >> you believe michelle bachmann can beat barack obama? >> absolutely. i think perry and romney could go after each other, ignoring michelle r

it paints the picture of a candidate that would be the most conservative dins since barry goldwater and someone who thinks the majority of the federal government's activities are unconstitutional that means social security, medicare, all regulation of banks. it means all kind of environmental regulations and federal involvement in education. it's a bracing far right states rights track. i was a little surprised to see from someone who has national political ambitions. >> here's him defending this on the stump on sunday in eu iowa. do we have the quote about entitlement? >> i know our friends on the democrat side are going to jump and say those bad old mean republicans. they are going to take away social security and medicare. no, we're not. but we are going to make sure the next generation is taken care of and the next generation does, in fact, have the security that they know they can have in this country. >> now, this gets -- i was talking to someone from texas politics today. they said the most searing thing about perry is he is able to take extreme positions and when people nail the

george mcgovern, barry goldwater. he doesn't travel. he doesn't appeal to anything beyond a very narrow base. but it's funny. he's become almost an elder statesman. a lot of things he said about the economy and sound money, now everybody's saying. >> saying the same thing. so as we go before beat go to break here, that's your final advice for everyone? i'm going to let you put a stamp on it, if you will. >> the race is down to really i think two now, mitt romney and rick perry. may the best man win. >> not michele bachmann? >> i don't think she'll make it. >> you heard it. alex cas tell lan knows, really appreciate it. up next here on cnn, what the democrats think of today's gop straw poll. debbie wasserman schultz drops by and speaks with us and we have a reminder we are following breaking news out of indiana. a is taken at the state fair has collapsed where the country band sugarland was scheduled to perform. this is new video. you see all of the emergency workers there on the scene. it's from our affiliate wthr. there are numerous in

. >> maybe it's goldwater republicans. >> another classic "go dog go" a blue doing in a car, where areg? why are they going away so fast? the blue dog, democratic caucus has been decimated. in the elections, they are retiring, losing. where are they going? apparently not back to congress. >> i think you spend too much time worrying about the blue dog. you are reading a lot into that one. >> the last one, this could be prophetic. who sank the boat. if anything captures the 2012 elections, it's the phrase "who sank the boat." unfortunately for republicans, in this book, the donkey did not sink the boat, it was a tiny mouse. we'll have this fight next year. >> a small minority of one party. i got two on there, grace for president i love. an incredible explanation of the electoral. >> otto runs for president, it beats up on negative campaign running. >>> read, ames, fire, our supertuesday panel joins us for a look ahead to this weekend in iowa. >>> what about the calls for the president to maybe bring congress back to respond to the wall street chaos. that's coming up. >>> why not "soup of

. >> is this like a throw-back to barry goldwater? far back does this take the republican party? >> a lot of people, i think, in the early states of republican primary voters are making a mistake right now in that they compare rick perry to george w. bush. it's a national compareson. they were both texas governors. they sound a lot alike like me. we've been joking in texas that george w. bush is kind of a thinky one next to that. it's really easy to underestimate rick perry. he's very cagey. he's a very, very good campaigner and hasn't put much thought for effort into governing as far as i can tell. it's equally easy to overestimate rick perry. i don't think any of his competition needs to decide, okay, we lost this for sure because perry is in the race. he's never been in a solid race that is a fair fight against some republicans who are funded and effective and have a compelling message. i think that's an untested deal for perry. >> well, speaking of money, he can sure rake it in. it will be interesting to find. great to have you gu

they will play perry for goldwater. it's rick perry's race to lose. go take a cold shower. a matter of principles in terms of politics. is this true? talking about rick perry, mitt romney seems like the lost guy here for a minute. is this still his race to lose? >> out there saying, hey, guys. i'm here. i can hear you. you're talking about me. >> i'm right here. >> exactly. there are some people who -- but romney has run before. i think because of that there are a lot of skeptics about some of the things he did last time. trying very hard not to replay the same mistakes. yeah, it is mitt romney's race to lose. >> rick perry is clearly coming up on the rail. >> he's going right after romney. he isn't beating around the bush at all. >> if rick perry was running ghent a mitt romney of 2008, this would be rick perry's race. amazing, how disciplined mitt romney has been so far. >> yes. >> focus, he stays on. doesn't leave message and is better on the stump than last time. it's a really -- >> anyone out there and seen mitt romney i attribute a lot of it to matt rose, his campaign

there's goldwater conservatives. there are libertarian conservatives.e have all these kinds of conservatives, and the genius of ronald reagan, in my view, is that he was able to bring harmony to the group of voices within the conservative movement and unite us and focus us what we had in common, not on what divided us, and he was able to provide a cohesive fusionism and it was aided by the interest in defeating communism, and he made all the factions realize if we focus on what we have in common, defeating communism, we will get there, but if you are 80% my ally, you are not 20% my enemy, and the 11th commandment helped also. i think we need to invoke this aspect of reagan today. if we focus on the challenge and the choice we have up in 2012, this choice of two futures, and if we focus on the fiscal responsibility, growing the economy, getting jobs back to the american people, and we channel the essence of american individualism, i think this will create a new fusionism that connects to the next generation, unite the various tribes of conservativism, an

in the election years of 1964 and 1972 and 84, republicans goldwater and mcgovern and mondale sufferedfeats. now in the popular history because all three were terrible candidates and maybe they were. but it's also the case that each of those three ran in years where the nation experienced historic income growth. thus, rendering the candidate according to many political scientists almost irrelevant against the good economic numbers. look, i know we all love to think of campaigns as a dramatic contest between two heroic or not so heroic gladiators, good for ratings, media, great to write about. the political scientists who study this stuff don't tend to see it that way. if you don't know who the candidates are, you can predict how elections will go. not good news for the president who remains relatively popular, much more popular than [ inaudible ] any right to be, but nevertheless, is looking at high unemployment, huge deficits, no real light at the end of the economic tunnel. even a dramatic economic improvement may not be enough. as one obama adviser told politico, quote, the numbers

or even barry goldwater. candidates with intense support but unable to reach across the middle. and you ack sent that when you shoot from the lip as some texans are known to do. does he have mad cowboy disease? >> and eric, he talked today -- he joked, he mocked the president going to el paso and saying the border is as safe as it has been in recent memory. obviously he's a border state governor. obviously he has a unique perspective being from texas. but if you just look at the numbers, el paso, texas on the border is one of the cities in america with the lowest rates of violent crime. others are on the border, too, san diego and phoenix. el paso had 12 murders in 2009. if you go just across the border, the town across the border had 2,000. there is a town across the border. border patrol agents today, 20,000700 -- 20,700. the number of those people coming across the border is also down. so can the governor's credibility be questioned when he says things that numbers don't seem to support? >> oh, i think it depends on which numbers you look at on that, john. yes, the violence i

appeals to the base but that in a general election he could become george mcgovern or even barry goldwater, candidates with intense support but unable to reach across the middle. and you accent that when you shoot from the lip as some texans are known to do, you know, does he have mad cowboy disease. >> and, he talked today, he joked, he mocked the president going to el paso and saying the border is as safe as it's been in recent memory. obviously he's a border state governor. obviously he has a unique perspective being from texas, but if uf just look at the numbers, if you look at the numbers, el paso, texas, on the border is one of the cities in america with the lowest rate of violent crime. others are on the border, too, san diego and phoenix. el paso had 12 murders in 2009. if you go across the border, the town across the border had 2,000. more than double the size of border patrol agents than in 2004. 1,200 national guardsmen across the border and if you look at the study and more attribute it to the economy than the obama administration but the number coming across the border is also

. >> how do you think the goldwater lawsuit is going to go against -- do you know anything about that? is. >> it's not constitutional. you cannot have appointed, people who are appointed having control over hundreds of billions of dollars in federal spending. no judicial review, no administrative review, and congress has very high hurdles that it has to reach in order to be able to overrule it. and the president wants to sequester any funds that the congress might pass to overrule the ipads. it's shockingly powerful to have these appointees, basically, be able to have the force of law. these are ultra czars. >> right. >> and it absolutely has to be repealed, and democrats are not willing to defend it. >> and is it constitutional to bind another congress? can they really do that like obamacare says it is? and do people -- >> well, we're going to find out. >> -- understand that obamacare has already gutted medicare. it's already happened. if we don't repeal it, the costs have already come outment -- out. >> certainly, the ipad is a rationing board, and these bureaucrats who haven't been

of a communist country 90 miles from american shores was simply intolerable and not just to barry goldwater, richard nixon but really to everybody. so fidel castro was interrogated on the subject of communism everywhere he went on his visit. by vice president nixon, by congressional subcommittee, by scores of journalists. everybody asked him the same question, dr. castro, are you a communist? and he answered the same, no, he was not a communist, never had been, never would be. when castro finally left new york on april 25th, the police were relieved to see him go, but most new yorkers were happy that he'd come to visit. an editorial in "the new york times" summed up the general attitude toward castro as he left, quote, he made it quite clear that neither he nor anyone of importance in his government, so far as he knew, was a communist. by the same token, it seems obvious that the americans feel better about castro than they did before. well, that changed. that changed very fast. in the book i go into some detail regarding what happened after castro returned to cuba after his american visit,

alabama, we passed the goldwater-nichols act that did a much better job of dealing with this problem book is "in my time," a collaboration with your daughter, liz cheney, the former vice president, dick cheney. so honored that you would sit on the curvy couch with us. thanks so much. >> it's nice to be here. >> brian: thank you for your service to the country. >> thank you. >> gretchen: coming up, are the teachers unions to blame for the trouble with our schools? we'll tell you. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] the most legroom per dollar of any car in america. the all-new nissan versa sedan from $10,990. innovation sized. innovation for all. >> gretchen: welcome back. public education in america is a battlefield and two camps are duking it out for the future of your kids. unions, who are looking to keep the status weigh for the most part, and performers, like michelle rhee whom we had on the show yesterday. >> it is very clear that we continue to have significant problems with our public education system in america. we are 25th out of 34 developed nations across the globe in mathematics and