gordon chang, north korean analyst on the phone.th korea appears to have conducted another nuclear test, their 6th since 2006. it triggered a 6.3 tremor, explosion there, that would be the largest of the 6 nuclear tests if it's confirmed to be. we heard from lucas come lynn on explaining how the u.s. will be sending planes into the area to do air samples. but the usgs saying that was a magnitude 6.3 and that's the largest one so far. we have a senior fellow at the defense for democracy. anthony i would like to get your thoughts on what this does appear to be the large yechtd of these nuclear tests. this coming in the backgrounds. kim jong-un saying he expected the loading of a hydrogen bomb on to an icbm just yesterday. >> thanks for having me. it looks like north korea is sending another signal to the united states and our allies in the region that it will continue its nuclear program, nuclear pea weapons perhaps. north korea said by their actions and words. it's another reason we need more robust sanctions against north korea. we

sanctions and what they do mean, author gordon chang, an expert on china and north korea.re. gordon, from a week or two ago, severe threats of severe interruption in trait with china to what looks to be a very inconsequential ban coming to us from the united nations tonight. >> nikki haley said u.n. sanctions that don't significantly i am crease the pressure on north korea have no value. she said they are worse than nothing. and she was right. because they embolden north korea and the chinese. that's what we got a few hours ago. these sanctions are not going to change the way the north koreans and the chinese operate. lou: china is responsible for the development of the ballistic missiles north korea has managed to build and to launch. and those that are about to be constructed and launched again perhaps with nuclear warhead. it's also responsible for the nuclear warheads and weaponry china tested, most of recently we think at least at this point is a hydrogen bomb. where do we go here. china is saying they won't accept new accounts from north korea. if suddenly you were t

gordon chang on why he agrees with adding rogue regime to the travel ban.s next. >> north korea is not a victim. they're terrorists. they kidnapped otto. they tortured him. they intentionally injured him. they are not victims. they're terrorists. you're a rabbit? im vern, the orange money retirement rabbit, from voya. riiight. and that means...? i'm the money you save for retirement. i help you get organized so your money could multiply. see? got it. who's he? he's green money for spending today. you know, paying bills, maybe a little online shopping... makes it easy to tell you apart. that, and i am better looking. i heard that. when it's time to get organized for retirement, it's time to get voya. >> otto was on the stretcher, across in the plane and he was jerking violently, making these inhuman sounds. otto had a shaved head. he had a feeding tube, coming out of his nose. he was staring blankly into space, jerking violently. he bass blind. he was deaf. as we looked at him to try to comfort him, it looked like someone had taken a pair of pliers rearrange

we've been having this conversation with gordon chang.ay in your estimation about north korea? is he growing to say we have a plan and going to leave it up to the defense secretary, the secretary of state? what is on the table? >> i spoke to the president in person about this yesterday saying what are you going to do about north korea? things don't appear to be working? he suggested he's having talks with the chinese premi premier jinping. he said at the moment, there's an increased regime of sanctions. we heard nikki haley and h.r. mcmaster talk about that they're cutting off 90% of exports and 30% of fuel. this won't happen overnight. as the days and weeks wear on, they believe that north korea will be squeezed by the sanctions. that said, if they're not properly enforced, if some of north korea's allies or patrons sneak things across the border or people get them in some other way, the military option is on the table. nikki haley said i have no problem kicking this over to general mattis if necessary. we recall that mattis said in stri

gordon chang, author of nuclear showdown america against the world.ed 259 points with north korea and damage from hurricane irma faded. pictures pointing to a higher rope in. transfer of ulster rally yesterday certainly helping stocks fare. the cac in paris and dax in germany. don 1%. cheryl: japan's nikkei up on .2%. in south korea, the kospi edging upward 72%. lauren: liquid intensity that is out. amazon slashing the price. what happened to "what happened." "fbn:am" starts right now. cheryl: 5:32 a.m. in new york. good morning. cheryl casone. lauren: good morning. i'm lauren simonetti. i have to say it's a good book. cheryl: all the breaking news we've missed overnight. millions of residents in florida started to begin cleanup after irma appeared 60% say it has no power. they cost about $30 billion in damage to us than the estimated $200 billion forecast over the weekend in the storm wasn't as strong as feared although it was still deadly. six people did die in florida alone. it shows the distraction in the florida keys. both in houses damaged in fl

let's go to gordon chang, author of "nuclear show down: north korea takes on the world." gordon, thank you. >> thanks, shep. >> shepard: a bit of a muted response. something about dogs barking. your thoughts? >> yeah, this is extremely significant. what president trump did and what treasury secretary mnuchin is now doing is shutting off the money to the north korean regime. every bank gets a free pass for what they did in the past with their relations with pyongyang. what mnuchin said, look, going forward, if a bank violates u.s. law, it will be designated. you heard that word "designation" in the press conference. that's under 311 of the patriot act. if a bank is so designated, it's cut off from the global financial system because it can no longer transact business in dollars. what the north koreans now will do is try to transact business in other currencies, what the united states is go around the world and make sure they can't use other currencies. >> shepard: the north koreans didn't say much. they wait awhile. you wonder if they won't wait until all of these world lea

gordon chang was saying we need to take stronger action to pressure the chinese. those are all reasonable options. it's worth pointing out that previous administrations including the obama administration took those steps and that sanctions tend to take time and especially with north korea, a regime that has not shown a great concern about the welfare of its own people. so, you know, one scenario here is the one nobody wants to acknowledge which is that we may be in a state where north korea is going to have nuclear weapons, hydrogen bomb and thermonuclear weapons and there's nothing we can do about it. >> nothing we can do about it. matt bennett, is there nothing we can do about it? should more sanctions be investigated? the june -- june 3rd was when the security council unanimously agreed on sanctions and as michael isikoff was saying there, it takes a while for sanks to be implemented and they're still undertaking those which they agreed upon in the security council, for instance, in june. >> there's no question that we should try, but, look, i think democrats l

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thank you, gordon chang.w a headline which alerted me to how committed the international community is. i don't love we can show people that headline but it is likely talking about the smuggling. there we go. it sort of speaks that well be security council has voted in favour of these sanctions, there are plenty of countries who are committed to it. yes, andi committed to it. yes, and i had been hearing... interesting that headline popped up to date, because the last weeks i have heard it from national security people here in washington that they are looking at russia. we just to gordon chang about china but what happens at russia is the news boiler —— the new spoiler on north korea? whether they are muscling in a powered and north korea are messing with the united states and europe, who knows? but there are smuggling routes they have just opened, a ferry service this year into north korea. there is evidence that china is not only trying to trade but exerting its own influence in a new sphere. it will be inter

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gordon chang, let's talk about real options today. what are the real options? >> there's way too much war talk. i think how do we use our economy and financial system to deny kim from building missiles and nukes. >> how do we do that? >> i think we talk about embargo. the last sanctions adopted on august 5 only restrict a small portion, in this case a third of north korea's legal exports, and it doesn't even take into account the stuff that north korea is sending to iran which is about $2 billion, $3 billing eun a year. what we need to do is go after the oil and 5u8 the other things that keeps kim in business. if the wrats is going to show political will, and i think essentially the chinese and the nort north koreans are going to step back and would be more amenable to talking. yes cannot allow the chinese to, for instance, use our financial system to launder money for the north koreans. we can't allow them to send material to the north koreans or supply the most recent ballistic missile material. we need to use our economy rather than the military to serve thi

more on this is going to gordon chang author of the nuclear showdown north korea takes on the world. ea expert gordon, good to see you. >> thank you eric. >> what you expect he will stand tuesday? >> he has got to talk about north korea because if nothing else the north koreans will be in front row! so he has to say something. i think in order to have an effect he has to say something we have not heard which means he needs to be specific. senior officials have been saying that he will also talk about the accountability. but they have not told us what that really means. i think it will use the opportunity to talk about un security council members. not enforcing un sanctions. for instance, china which is both of the first seven of the nine us sanctions on north korea. they have not busted the september 11 sanctions but they are too new. >> what is the point if they're not paying attention to them? >> for instance, there was a big deal about not by north korean coal. but they were coal in april, may and june. >> they are lying. >> yes and i think now they're buying coal through third par

joining us among the great experts in the field, two of them, gordon chang, daily beast columnist, authorlear showdown, north korea takes on the world. and sue mi terra, former nsa director for korea, japan, and oceanic affairs. gordon, i'm not joking when i ask you, how will something like rocket man translate, or don't we care? >> i think we don't care, or at least trump doesn't care. what he really should have said was, missile man because the north koreans have been firing missiles. the last rocket that they fired was i think february, 2016. and the security council permits rocket firings. they don't permit ballistic missile launches. and i think that, you know, kim jong-un must like the attention, but nonetheless, you know, trump has got to back that up especially tomorrow and he has to say something specific because the world is waiting for him to say something different than what he said in the past. >> why, in your view, do we keep talking about military options that we have against north korea that don't result in basically a sea of fire in south korea? why is that happening? >>

. >> i'm joined now by gordon chang, columnist for "the daily beast" and author. let's start on what nikki haley said. look, we've tried the diplomatic route. not much more we can do with sanctions. that sounds like an escalation, kick it over to the pentagon. >> that's what h.r. mcmaster the national security adviser said when he was on the podium with haley. the time has run out for diplomacy. that's consistent with the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff said in july, there's only a few more months for diplomacy. we're seeing a point in the administration where they're starting to think now is a time to pivot to something for coercive. >> what could that entail? >> it could entail the use of force. but i think ambassador haley is wrong. yes, the security council looks like it won't go further on sanctions but that's only because the united states has not put a lot of pressure on china. until we do that, we're not going to give the chinese an incentive to help us at the security council. she's talking about the way the world as it is. but that's not the way th

gordon chang joins us from washington. hat do you think is going on in kim jong un's head when he reads the president's tweets? >> well, he does feel diminished. but what really concerns me, you know, we've had these threats from north korea to incinerate american cities for years, and we even had those entertaining videos, but something is new. with the foreign minister's speech at the u.n. yesterday, he talked about attacking the entire u.s. mainland, but he didn't preface it with what north koreans have always said in the past. in the past they've said, look, if the u.s. strikes us, we will strike you. we didn't hear that yesterday from the foreign minister. and so that is a new development, and i think it indicates that there probably is a change in kim jong un's mind as he views all of these developments. eric: so your interpretation and analysis is they're thinking of a first strike? >> well, i -- [laughter] i don't think they're actually thinking of that, but they're talking about that though. and, you know, the nort

gordon chang, thank you so much. >> thanks, julie.: well, there's trouble brewing in the atlantic again. forecasters keeping an eye on hurricane jose. where it's headed next and whether it could make landfall in the u.s. >>> plus, the white house now suggesting the justice department should consider prosecuting fired fbi director james comey. did comey violate the law when he leaked information about his meetings with president trump? ♪ if you have bad breath and your mouth lacks moisture, you may suffer from dry mouth. try biotène®, the #1 dentist recommended dry mouth brand. it's the only leading brand clinically proven to soothe, moisturize, and freshen breath. try biotène®. it's ok that everybody ignoit's fine.n i drive. because i get a safe driving bonus check every six months i'm accident free. and i don't share it with mom! right, mom?! righhht. safe driving bonus checks. only from allstate. switching to allstate is worth it. ♪ ♪ julie: an active hurricane season continues with yet a possible new threat to the east coast. hurri

i'm joined by gordon chang, author of nuclear showdown: north korea takes on the world. mr. g, thank you. i have no idea what's going on in the head of kim jong un. what can you tell us? >> i think he is very concerned. we live in a democracy. so our government is inherently legitimate. not so the north koreans. and they're very worried about attacks on the dignity of the leader. especially because north korea is like a cult. so it's almost considered to be existential. that's why you got the comments of ri hong yo and this morning at the impromptu press conference, you can see how seriously they take this. >> when you look at these guys, the way they march, the way they smile in unison, everything is synchronized swimming in terms of their physical behavior. it's like they're going to look at the game pictures afterwards. if anybody isn't smiling the right amount, isn't kissing up to the guy appropriately, they're dead. is that the environment in which a guy like him would be sensitive, because he doesn't know what criticism sounds like? >> absolutely right, chris. and to ta

thank you very much, sue mi terry, gordon chang, we'd like to have you both back.e'll have reason to as the story goes on. >>> coming up, what's the chance the senate really can vote to change health care in the coming weeks. and right up after the break, bill krystal is here with us in our studio to react to the latest on the russia investigation and much more as we continue right after this. what is your nationality and i would always answer hispanic. so when i got my ancestry dna results it was a shocker. i'm everything. i'm from all nations. i would look at forms now and wonder what do i mark? because i'm everything. and i marked other. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. when food is good and clean and real, it's ok to crave. and with panera catering, there's more to go around. panera. food as it should be. whfight back fastts, with tums smoothies. it starts dissolving the instant it touches your tongue. and neutralizes stomach acid at the source. ♪ tum -tum -tum -tum smoothies! only from tums marcopolo! marco...!

joining me now is gordon chang, author of "nuclear showdown, north korea takes on the world." david sanger, national security correspondent for "the new york times." david, you are the expert on all things north korea. why do you think he did this now? >> i think he's doing this for two big reasons. first, he's had a summer in which he's just wanted to establish himself as a major nuclear power, akin to, say, pakistan or india, one whose nuclear capability is such that we're not going to get to unwind it. and secondly, i think he wants to divide the american alliance with south korea and japan by making it clear that for all of his talk, president trump is no more willing than his predecessors to go in and actually try to disarm it. that could create a breach of some kind with south koreans and japanese who doubted from the beginning of the campaign whether the president would really come to their aid. >> fascinating. gordon, you said recently that north korea is giving president trump the middle finger. is this about getting under trump's skin? >> well, i think it probably is

joining me now is gordon chang, daily beast columnist and author of "north korea takes on the world."n, thank you. is this thing trivial? does this get the attention of the north korean leader? >> it probably does. he should have said missile man. that not only has the advantages of literation, it has the advantages of accuracy. kim jong-un has not been firing rockets, he's been firing ballistic missiles. they let him fire rockets but it does not permit ballistic missile launches. there is a difference here. i hope the president understands it. i'm sure he does or at least h.r. mcmaster does. it's important to get that straight because for north korea, there is a difference. >> yeah, no, there's definitely a difference. and i'm sure elton john a preesh dwlats from you. >>> meanwhile, the north korean missile flew over japan. one republican congressman believes that the u.s. must take action to deter flights. here' what scott taylor told me earlier today. >> and i also do think we should in conjunction with our partners in south korea and japan talk about potentially shooting down a mi

gordon chang a columnist from the daily beast. >> tomorrow msnbc is celebrating all those who try toworld a better place with the global citizen festival. next we are going to speak with a supermodel and activist petra about a better place. we'll talk wiabout natural disaster after natural disaster and organizers such as this in action long after the television cameras leave. ♪ so, i was at mom and dad's and found this. cd's, baseball cards... your old magic set? and this wrestling ticket... which you still owe me for. seriously? $25? i didn't even want to go. ahhh, your diary. "mom says it's totally natural..." $25 is nothing. abracadabra, bro. the bank of america mobile banking app. the fast, secure and simple way to send money. whether it's connecting one of or bringing wifi to 65,000 fans. campuses. businesses count on communication, and communication counts on centurylink. you for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends, three jobs... you're like nothing can replace brad. then liberty m

churchillian they were not the greatest and diplomatic languages but they were him to china and then gordon chang also if i were president i wouldn't use those words but i won't dwell on i would want more of what north korea is doing that on two words that were said spontaneously by the present the united states mr months away you quoted mr burns and mr burns was also extremely critical of our don't know triumph or essentially trying to blame are to blame south korea for what mr trump called in peace with the talk of appeasement with the north also adding that they meaning the north only understand one thing what could that one thing being in your view that's not what i'm talking about the reference that i had oksana was that in the words the words on fire and fury of those words were aimed at china to get china involved in this thing no i'm not going to do all on on words that one particular president doesn't use or does use and i came here to talk about north korea and the threat that it has to the mr mansell my point was that mr trump employs very unconventional language not only with regards

gordon chang is here. there is so much to talk about here. the story keeps going and going with more tests. north korea has the bomb and it's 8 times more powerful than the one dropped on hiroshima. >> we go after north korea's sponsors. china is vulnerable. their biggest bank named for devising and operating a money laundering scheme, that's a violation of our patriot act. we could declare it a money laundering scheme and that will deny it dollars. it's a death sentence. bank of china as big as it is, the fourth biggest bank in the world is not the biggest chinese bank that's been money laundering. this gives president trump an important point of leverage on the chinese. if i take your financial system down, so goes your economy. your economy goes down, there is no more political system with the communist party. i'm saying war is catastrophic. kennedy: we are talking about millions of people who could guy in seoul and korea and the western united states. and that is not an option. we have this real black and white way of seeing the world. so

. >> jon: i am joined now by gordon chang, the sanctions were not as tough as the u.s.ted but they are tougher than has been in place before in china back to them. >> yes but china has backed the previous eight sets of sanctions, this is number nine and they are just a marginal increase over number eight. the real problem with sanctions as these are half measures and because of them we are going to wait to see if china and the international community enforces them but we do not have that much time. we don't have very much time to figure this out. ten years ago we could deal with half measures, but not now. >> jon: of these are half measures, what would you propose as full measures? >> we do need a blockade on north korea to make sure north korea doesn't sell missiles to iran or chemical weapons to syria. we have the authority to do it. we don't have the authority in those u.n. sanctions which were adopted on monday but because the north koreans have aggregated the korean war armistice at least three times, that means we can sink north korean ships. if we had the authori

cheryl: for more on this let's bring in gordon chang. columnist for the daily beast and author of nuclear showdown, north korea takes on the world. gordon, good morning. >> thank you so much. cheryl: what do you make of the new sanctions? this is companies, financial institutions, this is individuals and this is china, do you feel good about this move? >> i feel really good about this because this move is significant and it does mean what president trump said, either do business with the north koreans or do you do business was, now the real issue will be enforcement. the treasury department now has all the authority it needs, but it needs to go around the world mopping up all of these flows of funds into north korea and it's not just china, we are talking about a dozen countries in africa, and we are talking about countries around the world, so this is going to be an important exercise for treasury and i hope that they have the staff to be able to do this because people have been saying that even before this announcement with much less au

. >> joining me now is gordon chang, author of nuclear showdown, north korea takes on the world.ou called the north korean test earlier this week a belligerent action, what's your analysis of this latest test. >> this is ten times more than the previous test on september 9 of last year. 120 kilotons could very well be the h-bomb they claim. they think the trump administration is in chaos. but they also believe that china is not in a position to respond. you have the chinese ruler heading into the 19th communist party congress. a very sensitive time. they probably believe they can get a way with a lot at this time which is the reason they detonated the new get this moment. >> i've heard experts over multiple administration say north korea's the problem that keeps them up at night. if u.s. troops in harm's way, sold nearby, what are the options at this point? >> i think we can do really severe sanctions. but we should be talking about is an embargo. if the chinese in russia don't want to participate in it that we can't force them. we can oppose things on moscow and beijing. if we k

from asia analyst gordon chang. thanks for being here. it seems this is a much different level, that this is a big deal. the executive order that stops funding. >> this is a big deal. chinese banks have been money-laundering for the north korea's, they get a free pass. everything they've done which is awful up to today, we'll forget about it. going forward it means they can be designated. that means they will lose their access to doing business in dollars and essentially at the death sentence. with the united states is doing is saying to them, look, we forget the past but you never, ever think about handling another dollar for the north koreans. >> bret: is it an effort to get kim jong un to the table? >> eventually it will be. we should be talking to kim jong un but only when he realizes he has no choice but to disarm. if we talk to him before that point, he's going to use negotiations to rudely build up his missiles and nukes. that's what he did during the six party talks of the george w. bush administration. they stalled and stalled. i

. >> gordon chang, author of "nuclear showdown" north korea takes on the world. gordon, always good to see you. >> great to see you, leland. >> north korea really is taking on the world. we don't know whether kim jong-un boxes cnn or fox news f you're watching, hello. or bbc. but he almost certainly heard what president trump just said, in that sound bite yesterday, when he was leaving church. he hears that, what does he think? >> think that i kim jong-un says it doesn't matter, the united states has not imposed any costs on north korea they can't bear. and the other thing, they're probably looking at moscow and beijing, thinking the chinese and the russians very well may have their back. he knows that the chinese ruler is in the runup to the 19th chinese congress, preoccupied about consolidating power. it's unlikely he will pay too much attention to kim except we know that xi will support the north could reaps in the security council as they're doing at this moment. >> in a sense, might kim jong-un be correct, the russians and the chinese have his back as much in

gordon chang said we haven't put the screws on china in one of the things we could do is we could stoprom being able to trade in dollars. and that would grind at the chinese economy to a halt and they would have to play ball with us. i am a little bit afraid that maybe vladimir putin is right there that north korea would rather starve their own people then bend to the will of the west. hold on, let me finish. i think this in part because of the deal the ukraine made with us back in the '90s if they give up their nuclear program and we would protect them. guess what, russia rolled in and we did nothing. north korea saw that ed is an example so maybe they're going to hang onto those nukes until the bitter end. >> brian: if you want to get china involved, i think you're never going to have them okay we will cut off trade. 650 billion in annual trade. will hurd -- we will hurt ourselves as much as china. i would add sanctioned the banks directly. 83% of our exports come from china. if you are able to get them to stop the oil, if you're able to get the banks to stop dealing. to go economy t

and also gordon chang and ian bremmer. great to have all of you. gordon you sat here 24 hours ago. since then there have only been more troubling developments. north korea has put out an announcement they are going to annihilate the u.s. mainland. appear to be moving and icbm into place. >> well the one thing ta is going to change is the north koreans are going to fire a icbm. they fired off two stage i-cbm's in july. we know they have a kno 8. they showed it to us in april, 2012. they haven't tested it. i would expect them to do something that will take us by surprise, i'm looking for an int intercontinental missile that's going to be different than the ones in h the past. >> what would that look like? certainly much more range and also in april parade this year, the north koreans showed another. it looked like the -- that has a rage of at least 8,700 miles. that puts virtually all the u.s. in risk. i don't know exactly what is being transported westward but i'm sure it's going to be something that will grab us at a very emotional level like this detonation of the bomb. >> the tec

you've probably had gordon chang on before. he talked about this.pply of oil. we're not the only ones that have a bone to pick with them. the philippines and the vietnamese has to go through the south china sea. the secondary effects that the chinese should look at to get north korea under control. if they don't, they'll suffer consequences. >> neil: thanks, tony. >> thank you. >> neil: on to lighter news or more -- i don't know -- monetary news. apple has a new iphone coming out. you'll have to wait awhile. and you'll have to say it because it will set you back $1,000. i'll explain after this. marco...! polo! marco...! polo! marco...! polo! marco...! polo! marco...! sì? polo! marco...! polo! scusa? ma io sono marco polo, ma... marco...! playing "marco polo" with marco polo? surprising. ragazzini, io sono marco polo. sì, sono qui... what's not surprising? how much money amanda and keith saved by switching to geico. ahhh... polo. marco...! polo! fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. polo! endless shrimp is back at red lobster. and w

gordon chang is here author of "nuclear show down: north korea takes on the world."s this stuff. you advocated a long time for not dealing with anybody that trades with north korea. that's not really possible because china is on that list. of the new things being suggested, what might work? >> the oil embargo certainly would work. the north koreans we know have been storing up oil in anticipation of this embargo. they're very worried about it. china, of course, is going to be very loathed to do that. as a matter of fact, the beginning of august when the security council met for the resolution with 2371, the u.s. did impose an oil embargo. china said no. we relented. we're coming back with it with better arguments. >> shepard: and freezing assets of kim jong-un. can that be done? >> he doesn't travel anyway. he doesn't go to china and his father went to china about five or six times. kim jong-un is not going leave pyongyang. he's concerned about his own security. he doesn't want to be overthrown while traveling outside of the country. the travel ban isn't going to mak

gordon chang, author of nuclear showdown. on this explosion would hurt about in london. the police are now saying they are trading it as a terror incident. this is after an explosion inside one of the carriages there. there has been a picture circulating on social media. it does not appear to show extensive damage to the inside of the train carriages. we understand according to eyewitness reports there are a number of injured. we will keep you up-to-date with anything the police tell us. this investigation is ongoing. we'll have more on that and look at central banks. this is bloomberg. ♪ ♪ this is "bloomberg surveillance." tom, you must look at the markets today. there's something funny after we had this missile after north korea. if you look at the havens and how they are moving, a little bit risk off, really a little bit. it seems markets are becoming more immune to that cycle of provocation. let's get back to huw van steenis and paul donovan. is it wrong that markets are largely ignoring geopolitical events? huw: i think

. >> we had gordon chang on earlier and he was talking about the pressure that china could put on north korea to stop these missi missile tests. but also spoke about what the u.s. could do to china, possibly changing the bank of china because they violated the patriot act by doing this and putting pressure on the bank of china. what has the reaction been there possibly to pressure from the united states. are they taking it seriously? diplomatic conversations has not worked. >> i only picked up half of your question there, but i think you were asking about the questions whether sanctions could be affected. china has moved to implement more sanctions against north korea in recent months. so the chinese would say they are doing a great deal and others say they haven't done enough. the economic pressure hasn't been followed through as could be partly because of china. again, the chinese view is that the idea of a collapse of the north korean state is incomprehensible for them. they view it as a huge refugee crisis for the chinese. view it to leading down a path that might see a u.s. take-ov

joining me live now are gordon chang, he's the author of nuclear show down.e's also a daily beast column nis. abraham denmark, former deputy defense secretary of east asia. gentlemen, good to see you. gordon, let me start with you. we've just received word on what president trump discussed with the south korean president today. let me read this to you. the president donald j. trump spoke today with the president moon jae-in of south korea. president trump provided his conceptual approval for the purchase of many billions of dollars worth of military weapons from u.s. by south korea. is there an implication there that we should know about? we know that north korea buys u.s. military weapons. we have a mutual defense agreement with them. any news here? >> the big news is that the united states agreed to scrap all limits to the pay loads that north korean missiles can launch and that's important because we have this 1979 agreement with the south koreans, severely what they can do. those limits are now going to be taken out, and that's going to, of course, upset

i don't think we'll have a complete picture but i defer to gordon chang.e knows more about this than i do. this is a result of donald trump's consistent pressure on the chinese not just asking the chinese to do our bidding with the north koreans but telling them there's going to be prices to pay if you don't work with us. i think the speech may have helped but i think it has more to do with a consistent argument that trump has been making both in public and private with the chinese. >> bret: to go back to last week where we have the treasury secretary on and he foreshadowed this moments. >> i worked on an executive order that's ready if the president wants to use it. we can stop trade with any country that does business with north korea. we are going to be careful using these tools but the president is committed. we will use economic sanctions to bring north korea to the table. >> bret: you are saying stopping trade with china? >> stopping trade with anybody. >> i think steve is right. it's a very significant concession by the chinese that the central bank

gordon chang. thank you. thanks. >> thanks. >> >>> north korea chams this was moment maid. we're going to tell you why that could be significant. but up next. we're going to take a look at what happens for the 80% of houston homeowners that do not have flood insurance. i'm see you back at the top of the hour with the latest on north korea and harvey. stay with us. around here, i'm lucky to get through a shift without a disaster. heads up! you know what, don't worry about it. my bargain detergent couldn't keep up. it was mostly water. so, i switched to tide pods. they're super concentrated, so i get a better clean. i mean, i give away water for free. i'm not about to pay for it in my detergent. number one trusted. number one awarded. it's got to be tide can make anyone slow downt and pull up a seat to the table. that's why she takes the time to season her turkey to perfection, and make stuffing from scratch. so that you can spend time on what really matters. marie callender's. it's time to savor. you don't let

despite gordon chang's saying it is going to collapse. they are quite a different view. so in this overall economic picture, looking at 25 or 30 , a newll at one time united states president who comes in the business world, has to look at the overall strategic context and my view is, trilateral cooperation among south korea and japan and denied -- makes a lot more sense so to answer your question to them, i do think it needs political framework of some kind. it will probably help a lot with both japan and south korea for them to say, the americans want this. there is an american framework here. we're not doing it because korea and japan love each other, we are doing it because americans want this. but the damage to our relationship with china, that will exist and we will need a good explanation for why we are doing this and i would suggest one of them can be, the chinese are invited to this exercise, too, as long as they meet certain conditions but the conditions may be very difficult for china to meet. democracy would be one of them. [laughter] >> sorry for the long ans

joining us now, gordon chang author of nuclear showdown. thank you some much for talking to us. china, russia are two key constituents there, two key pieces of this puzzle. basically, he is saying it's time for us to get together or we are going to destroy north korea. in the meantime, they've been side blinded because were talking about tony 5 million people who currently live in north korea and its award in their neighborhood they don't necessarily want. what are china and russia going to do? >> they're basically following the united states rain now because trump has the initiative. you have to remember that what the president said was we will totally destroy north korea, but that was after the words if we are forced to defend ourselves or our allies. what trump did was he restated the american deterrence policy. he put it into different words in that choice of words is catching attention. not only of the chinese and russians, but the japanese and south koreans as you pointed ou out. >> julie: i want to point out the japanese because they have been extremely silent. definitely

gordon chang and also gordon, do you agrees with a nonstarter. >> if we putin sentives that they haven'tre, maybe they will change their mind. everyone says that chinese will never pressure the north koreans and the north koreans will never give up their nukes but that is true but unless the united states used its leverage, we could change that. and we could undermine the chinese economy by going against their banks which have been money laundering and that puts pressure on beijing. beijing has overwhelming leverage over the north koreans and if we start a chain of events, it would actually effect not only china's decisions but north korea. >> you are talking about threatening to destroy the chinese economy? >> not to destroy the economy. but to enforce u.s. law. so for instance, bank of china, big four bank has been named in the u.n. 2016 report for money laundering. that is a violation of u.s. law. so what we could do it declare it to be a primary money laundering concern and it could no longer have access to dollars and that could cripple them and change the political system. the chin

also joining us gordon chang the ar thundershower of "nuclear showdown, north korea takes on the world," a columnist for "the daily beast." and sean turner, the director of communications for u.s. intelligence. let's talk about real world options this morning. you saw the president's tweet where he said the u.s. is willing to cut off real trade with any country that does business with north korea, meaning listen up, china. is that the right way to go in your mind? is that the real world option here? >> that is the real world option. after that -- this was not just some isolated donald trump tweet. secretary mnuchin said he was going to put together a sanctions package which would accomplish the same thing. this changes everyone's calculus. we always say the north koreans will never give up their nukes. the chinese will never press the north koreans unless the united states puts pressure on both these countries and makes the incentives very different. an embargo -- xi jinping is full neshl up until that time. afterwards going forward he's going to be more difficult to deal with. trump h

i want to go now to gordon chang, author. what do you know at this point about this missile, which, just to be clear here, when you look at the mileage, as we were talking to jim sciutto, certainly would, again, show that north korea could strike guam when you look at the miles, 2300 miles was the range here. >> the other thing is, we don't know if north koreans shortened the burn. they had a missile with much longer range but decided not to show us the full range of the missile. so there is a lot that we don't know. i think that after the analysis, we will figure out a few things but the really important thing is that this is a political message as well. they just had the security council sanctions. the north koreans were especially defiant by arcing it over hokkaido. so they are saying, we can't be stopped. don't even try to stop us. >> colonel layton, in just the past 17 days, you've had three tests, two missiles. in just 17 days. why so much in such a short span of time? >> well, erin, that's one of the big mysteries that

retired general, mark, and gordon chang. colonel, let me start with you. north korea now threatening to test in their words the strongest hydrogen bomb test over the pacific ocean. just to make sure we emphasize this again, this will be the first nuclear weapon detonated in nearly 40 years. there's a reason people stopped doing it. it could kill people. this would be unprecedented. >> the it would. it would be one of the most heinous acts when it comes to nuclear nonproliferation, also one of the biggest issues that the united states would have to deal with in not only east asia, but globally. we're talking about the total annihilation in essence of the whole nonproliferation regime and what that means is that all of a sudden, we hut ourselves at risk and not only from a nuclear standpoint, but also from a safety and security standpoint for everybody in our society. and that is really what this is all about. >> so, general, what would happen if kim jong-un does this? >> well, erin, there are probably about 20 different scenarios of how it might happen. if

joining us now for reaction as gordon chang, east asian expert and colonized with "the daily beast."nk that this announcement by china was very significant for a reason that you think china never thought they would do? >> it is because of the pressure from president trump. the chinese, despite the friction with being young, support the kim regime. they look at trump and they don't want -- that is why the chinese went beyond what he was sanctions require, and the whole issue is going to be people saying, this must be a change in the attitude in beijing. no, i think it is really going to be -- everybody is going to be looking at how rigorously the trump administration continues to enforce this. if the administration does that, the chinese are going to continue to yield to the president because they know that the u.s. isoi overwhelming -- hs overwhelming leverage over the chinese. >> dana: do you think president trump is calling the shots in asia right now? >> absolutely. everybody says of the chinese oh the 21st century. they can't even deal with north korea. right now, it's the united

in order to be able to shift pyongyang in the way it needs to shift. >> laura rosenberger and gordon chang, thank you for coming on today. happy labor day. >>> after weeks of uncertainty, president trump is poised to end the program protecting 800,000 undocumented immigrants brought to this country as children. but there's a catch. more on that, in a second. i didn't know where i was from ethnically. so we sent that sample off to ancestry. my ancestry dna results are that i am 26% nigerian. i am just trying to learn as much as i can about my culture. i put the gele on my head and i looked into the mirror and i was trying not to cry. because it's a hat, but it's like the most important hat i've ever owned. discover the story only your dna can tell. order your kit now at ancestrydna.com. there's nothing more important to me than my vacation. so when i need to book a hotel room, i want someone who makes it easy to find what i want. booking.com gets it. and with the book now, pay later feature, i can hold on to my hard-earned cash until check-in. your vacation is very important. that's why boo