who won explains lindsey graham? his weakness and falling over donald trump is something we had never seen in a senator before donald trump invaded the republican party. whatever explains lindsey graham we may never know. perhaps we will learn more about him six months after his death as we did with strom thurman. maybe in a peculiar south carolina republican senate tradition, lindsey graham has a secret. and the person lindsey graham knows who loves secrets the most is donald trump. we know now know that donald trump has been happily riding around golf carts in florida knowing that in the basement he had a government document identified in the fbi inventory of the fbi search but said infiltrate, president of france. donald trump showed lindsey graham what he is capable of in the 2016 presidential campaign when lindsey graham was still campaigning against donald trump and accurately criticizing donald trump. and then this happened. >> he gave me his number and i found the card. i wrote the number down. i don't know i

lindsey graham is lying. lindsey graham is lying about a false equivalence between hillary clinton's handling of classified information while she was in office as secretary of state and donald trump's handling of classified information and other government records after he left office and took those records with him as a private citizen. but lindsey graham is also lying about trump supporters and he is insulting them. if donald trump is indicted, 74 million trump supporters will do exactly what they did when donald trump lost the election. nothing. the hundreds of them who might be inclined to write in the streets are spread out throughout the 50 states and it is possible that most of them will have already been convicted of rioting for donald trump at the capitol of january six, and the ringleaders of that riot at the capitol are all in prison. there will not be rioting in the streets in this country of 330 million people of donald trump is charged with a crime. not 1 million people have ever publicly gather

senate south carolina senator lindsey graham. this morning a federal appeals court temporarily blocked and lower courts order requiring that gray must testify before a special grand jury in atlanta. graham argues he shouldn't have to because of legal protections from federal lawmakers. new reporting from political -- appeals court said in a two page order that graham's attorneys and prosecutors from fulton county district attorney fani willis needed to flesh out arguments about whether graham is entitled to have the federal courts placed legal guardrails on the questioning graeme could face. georgia investigators want to get to the bottom of grams -- of georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. raffensperger claims graham asked him if he had the power to reject a certain absentee ballots. in raffensperger's view, that was -- to toss out votes in a free and fair election. quote -- we're going to ask joyce matt vance about all this in just a minute. here's the broader context when it comes to these various investigations into

graham.efore the grand jury in georgia. lower court told him he should app and the appeals said he should reprieve. what does this mean? >> the way this works is the lower court will make a ruling and it goes all the way up. original ruling was about whether lindsey graham can cannot testify all like complete immunity showing up based on the speech and debate clause. it went to the 11th circuit and they sent it back saying let's see if there are certain parts of the testimony that can be actually gotten from mr. graham. so i actually think -- i agree with jessica that this is a delay process but i actually think this could consolidate the ultimate appeal, because any sort of privilege, attorney/client or executive privilege or the fifth amendment needs to be implemented on a question-by-question base. i worked with ken starr in the whitewater investigation and bill clinton as a sitting president had to testify before the grand jury. lindsey graham loved that one and i think this will facilita

now, graham does have one other iron in the fire.lso filed with an appeals court saying he plans to file his appeal and asking that court to put a stay, again, essentially to pause his required tuesday appearance while this appeal plays out. we are still waiting to see what the appeals court says about this. the district attorney who's investigating all of this in georgia, her office has said that graham is a crucial witness. they are particularly interested in a phone call that graham had with georgia secretary of state brad raffensperger. raffensperger came away from the call feeling like the senate was asking him to throw away ba ballots. we'll see if he has to appear before that grand jury on tuesday. sara murray, cnn, washington. >>> let's talk more about all of this now. i want to bring in michael zeldin, host of "that said with michael zeldin" podcast. good to see you. so senator lindsey graham still fighting to stay out of court and testify in georgia. are you convinced that he will testify as scheduled on tuesday? >> i belie

graham denied this but the d.a. says they want to know about the call and what led up to the call and want to know what other conversations graham may have been having with the trump campaign going through the efforts to try to overturn the election in georgia. all after rudy giuliani the former attorney to president donald trump appeared before the grand jury for six hours this week. >> thank you very, very much. now to the fallout over the classified documents former president trump took with him to mar-a-lago. new information about deep concerns inside the biden white house and the intelligence community. let's bring in jessica schneider. tell us about the cnn new reporting we are getting. >> reporter: the team is told that there is deep concern about what trump took and it could potentially put at risk the sources and methods of the u.s. intelligence community and there's deep concern within the intelligence community. representatives from there met with the justice department, the national archives and congress

graham has denied that this was his intent.of the things that the district attorney wants to get to the bottom of with senator graham. we will see if he manages to get out of that tuesday appearance. back to you guys. >> sara murray, thank you so much. >>> let's dig deeper now with cnn legal analyst and former new york prosecutor paul kallan. appreciate you getting up bright and early for us. so lindsey graham says he's protected under the speech and debate clause. he's arguing he was acting in his capacity as a member of congress. what do you make of that position? >> well, good morning, boris. yeah, it is early. but, it's always nice to be with you. the speech and debate clause of the constitution is a very interesting clause and very important one. essentially when the founding fathers were putting the constitution together, they decided that members of congress, when they're engaged in regular legislative duty on the floor of the house or senate, are immune from arrest or being compelled to testify in other places. there wa

graham is now living. i flew down to see them. >> reggie graham did not answer our numerous attempts to reach them but he did talk to luke brendal kim. >> he adamantly denied he ever made a single bad arrest. he made thousands of arrests and not one could he think of where there was a problem with the search warrant or the circumstances didn't play out exactly as was written in the police documentation. >> he absolutely denies? >> absolutely denies. february 2018 meeks legal team filed a motion based on the new information, they asked judge brinkley to toss mcneill's conviction and grant him bail. even the district attorney's office agreed the conviction should be overturned, but judge brinkley who'd overseen meeks case for over a decade deny the motion for bail. and set a date for a hearing. meek would remain in prison. >> it's something that i've never seen a judge do. one of meeks lawyers's judge tacopino, he says the judge has become a big part of the problem for meek. he thinks the rules were designed

graham: ok. dir. wray: and have stolen more of americans' personal and corporate data then every nation combined. so, we will absolutely need more resources to be able to keep pace with something like that. sen. graham: so, write it down. if you don't write it down you have nobody to blame but yourself. if you write it down and we say no, and you can blame us. right, let's move to another topic. international terrorism. are you worried about an attack on the homeland emanating from places like afghanistan? dir. wray: so, we are. as somebody in the fbi building on 9/11, a little over 20 years ago, and have met with the families in the years afterwards, i think about that day everyday. especially now that we are out. i'm worried about the potential loss of sources and collection over there. so, we are going to have growing intelligence gaps. and i'm worried about the possibility we will see al qaeda reconstitute, isis taking advantage of the deteriorating security environment, and terrorists being inspi

you mentioned lindsey graham. he tried a little bit yesterday to clarify those remarks from sunday, when he predicted there would be riots if trump were to be prosecuted for mishandling those documents. here's a reminder of what senator graham said, followed by the way he tried to temper them a bit yesterday. >> most republicans, including me, believes when it comes to trump, there is no law. it's all about getting him. if they try to prosecute president trump for mishandling classified information after hillary clinton set up a server in her basement, they literally will have riots in the street. i worry about our country. if there is a prosecution against president trump based on mishandling classified information after what happened with hillary clinton, there will be frustration, and i fear violence. i reject violence. i'm not calling for violence. violence is not the answer. >> too late, right? it's out in the atmosphere. he's already said it. and he's not alone, joe. >> yeah. >> again, is lindsey graham or o

the question is why is senator graham so hell-bent on not testifying?x, as you know, if all he has to do is tell the truth about his phone call with brad raffensperger and other things that he was involved in the state of georgia, a state he doesn't represent and congress or otherwise. why would it be so harmful for him to sit before the grand jury in fulton county and talk about what he knows? >> that's my question. i'm just trying to get the answer to that. anyway. let's turn back quickly to the pending decision on suing the mar-a-lago search affidavit. because trump's legal team, as we know, is considering stepping into the fray, they've got the fourth amendment base challenge there. suggesting this is from his attorneys who stayed mom by the way during last week's hearings. what do you make, lisa, of trump's legal strategy? >> i don't think it's much of a legal strategy at all. alex, you'll note that president trump and his legal team are really speaking primarily through the megaphone of social media and not through the microphone of the report roo

south carolina senator lindsey graham.ressured by trump on that infamous call, senator graham made a very similar call. graham asked whether raffensperger had the power to toss all mail ballots in counties found to have higher rates of non matching signatures. raffensperger said he was stunned that graham appeared to suggest that he find a way to toss legally cast ballots. it sure looked like he was wanting to go down that road, raffensperger said. now, lindsey graham claims he was just calling to ask some questions, to do his, you know, due diligence. and he has been trying to get out of testifying about that call for months now. today, a federal judge in georgia rolled that senator graham couldn't do that. he was subpoenaed, and he has to testify. a date is now set. lindsey graham is supposed to testify next tuesday. but tonight, we got the news that graham has asked for an even higher federal court for a state in his case, basically delaying, again. senator lindsey graham really does not want to talk about his due dilig

lindsey graham is supposed to testify next tuesday. , tonight we got the news that graham has asked foreven higher federal court for a stay in his case, basically delaying again. senator lindsey graham really doesn't want to talk about his due diligence. and know this case is being overshadowed in the news by all of trump's other legal insanity, but things in georgia are getting very interesting. joining us now is andrew weissmann, former fbi general counsel and former senior member of some special counsel robert mueller's investigative team. he's a professor at and why you law. andrew, thank you for being with us on this friday night. >> nice to be here, alex. >> so, does lindsey graham stand a chance here? or is this just running out the clock as long as he can? >> well, i think he doesn't stand a chance, and i don't think he's gonna be able to run the clock anymore. you know, he lost twice this week. the district judge ruled against him earlier this week, and the decision today was her saying, i am not granting a stay pending appeal, because this is so frivolous. your claim that you

senator graham did not want to testify. this judge now essentially saying what you did goes well beyond the scope of your legislative duties as a senator. so what's the significance of what the judge said today? >> well, the significance is, of course that lindsey graham will have to testify, even though he didn't want to, due to his loyalty to trump. and possibly his concern about his own culpability. but it's a good precedent. you know, you have president trump claiming, kind of a blanket executive privilege. you have now lindsey graham declaring a blanket speech and debate to right to temperature. the judge is saying, no, that goes way too far, you just can't have a get out of jail card with the speech. and even though it's important even though it's not binding on other judges across the country as these go through the courts we may see more of these claims so it's good to get it shut down. of course, lindsey graham will be now testifying so investigators will have the benefit of his testimony assuming he doesn't assert

graham: i think some context is important.nvironment agencies said 98 or 99% of beaches meet the standards. we are talking about 1% of the beaches that do not meet the acceptable standards. i'm sure it would be lovely if it was zero. in a couple years time we will have the super sewer come online in london. to hopefully remove all overflows from the thames region. it is a major focus. francine: what does that mean for credit ratings? graham: operational performance has become a big differentiator. companies keep winning awards and rewards from their customers are strong operational performances. companies like southern are persistently negative. and that is one of the reasons why ratings are starting to differentiate. we still have companies setting up in single a where a strong operating performance means a strong financial performance. tom: how should investors be thinking when they have exposure to these companies? graham: that is the central point. dividends have not been large in the sector for over a decade. and equities

senator lindsey graham has denied that.l challenges and if he has to appear before that grand jury on tuesday. sara murray, cnn, washington. >>> let's get back to michael zeldin on this. we heard that senator graham is now arguing, look, he shouldn't have to testify in this because his actions were related to legislative activity. does his argument have any teeth in your opinion? and how much of a chance does he have at the federal level to appeal this? >> i don't think his argument is persuasive. i agree with the judge that the speech and debate clause, which is what's at stake here, is to protect legislatures from criminal investigation of stuff they do in the course of their official business. here this was not official business, according to the judge, and therefore the speech and debate clause does not protect him. and we saw this in the case of senator menendez from new jersey. remember, he was tried for his lobbying exploits. and he said, too, that his lobbying was covered by speech and debate and the courts unanimou

graham, of course, not always a fan of donald trump. in fact, he has made a real u-turn since that 2016 campaign. >> here is what i think. i think donald trump is a political car wreck. he is a race baiting, xenophobic, religious bigot. he is a jack bleep -- donald trump is not actually strong, he's weak, he's a bully, he's a cartoon character. -- he shouldn't be commander-in-chief. he is destroying the party. it will be a generation before we could overcome this, maybe never. you know how you make america great again? tell donald trump to go to hell. >> now, graham, i suppose, to his credit, has been very honest about why he has come around on donald trump. this is what he said at a right-wing pro trump summit left just last month. >> if you think trump is bad for the party, i disagree with you. i think president trump is good for the party. [applause] let me tell you why. president trump has gotten people who wouldn't give me or romney or anybody else at the time of day -- they believe that he is on their side. i am trying to move tow

catherine graham was the owner and publisher of this newspaper. she was a large presence in everyone's life, even if you didn't have much interaction with her. it turned out that we did. but i think it's best illustrated by her candor and her willingness to push. for instance, after nixon resigned, and we got a personal letter from catherine.--i think you have the original. >> i have the original. >> -- and it was on yellow legal paper. she has more stationary than any 500 people in washington but sshe chose to write on it. i think it was a spontaneous thought. it said, dear carl and bob, now that nixon has resigned, you did some of the stories, fine -- and then i want to quote her -- she said, don't start thinking of yourself too highly. >> [laughter] >> let me give you some advice. the advice is, beware of the demon of pomposity. beware of the demon, pomposity. it launched earlier. we were talking about that. her son, the great publisher don graham, said to me, he said, you know she was talking to herself also. >> i'm going to add one thing sinc

ultimately can dodge this one. >> dana, as we know, senator graham is an agreeable guy. to just cooperate and go and tell them what he knows? >> he wants to make a point. you just heard kim talk about the fact that he is saying no, that this is an appropriate communication. he denies that he tried to pressure election officials to change anything and that he was simply checking in as is his right, not just as a senator, but as then judiciary chairman, and he wants to make a point. and he also argues that by saying yes, you're opening up the floodgates for the potential for local prosecutors to be able to call -- in differently cases to be able to call senators for whatever reason they want. i'm not sure how much that's going to fly in a case like this, which is clearly in a class of its own, in a category of its own. but that's the argument that he is making, that he should not have to testify in this situation given what he says he didn't say and given his position. >> we'll see where that goes. kim, thank you so much for being with us. dana, stay with us for a moment.

but what is different about graham? well, senator lindsey graham is also a witness and a potential participant in donald trump's 2020 election plot, which remains in criminal investigation in georgia. graham trying to fight lawful orders to testify there, so he has at a minimum a conflict. now, graham carefully avoided linking his own legal pressure in georgia to this new apparent warning or threat. instead he argued the double standard about secret documents, which is the federal case, not the georgia case, and argues if trump were indicted on that charge, the riots would be concerned about the double standard. they would be about that. >> most republicans, including me, believes when it comes to trump there is no law. it's all about getting him. if they try to prosecute president trump for mishandling classified information after hillary clinton set you have a server in her basement, there literally will be riots in our street. i worry about our country. >> there literally will be riots in the street. uses his platfor

the tax cuts that she's proposing are not going to help graham, they are not going to help graham.help the millions of people who don't pay enough tax... you, as chancellor, increased people's taxes, you put money and national insurance, you made millions pay more in income tax by changing the thresholds. where is the sense in saying to an average worker, "i'm going to take £230 a year off you in national insurance, "i may take more in income tax, and then i'm going to give you some "of that money back in order to deal with your energy bills"? it doesn't make sense and it's not very conservative, is it? actually, what i did do for the average worker is raise the amount that people can earn before they pay a penny of national insurance. but what is the answer to that, taking money off people on one hand and giving it back with the other? that is a really progressive tax cut that helps people on low and middle incomes the most, actually, it puts £330 in the pockets of hard—working people up and down the country. that's what i did. did we need to raise extra money for the nhs? yes, we

cnn has more on that from graham's dwindling legal options. >> south carolina senator, lindsey graham, is still keeping up the fight, and having to get out of having to appear on tuesday, before a georgia grand jury invest getting efforts to overturn the 2020 election in the state. now, a federal judge already told lindsey graham she was not going to quash his subpoena. graham went back to that judge and said can you stay your decision, can you essentially put paws on this, because i'm planning to appeal? the judge got back to them on friday saying, senator graham raises a number of arguments as to why he is likely to succeed on the merits, but they are all in unpersuasive. now, graham does have one or iron in the fire. he also filed with an appeals court, saying he plans to file his appeal, and asking that court to put a stay again to essentially pause his tuesday appearance while this appeal plays out. we are still waiting to see what the appeals court says about this. the district attorney who is investigating all of this in georgia, her office has said that graham is a crucial wit

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senator graham's spokesman said he was making a prediction and graham said he wasn'ted a ed a advocating for violence. >> it's notable, again, that he's doing this really for the first time in this way tonight in that we learned that on thursday, he's giving a primetime address to the nation on the subject of the soul of the nation. so what do we expect there? >> reporter: he's making three trips to pennsylvania. that one today. he has a second on thursday and another one next week and it comes as former tr er president is going to pennsylvania on saturday. back in 2020, joe biden talked about running for the soul of america, basically saying there is this threat to democracy. that is why he wanted to take office and felt like he needed to run for office to help in that battle. something that he clearly made clear today is something that he still thinks is a threat. it's still very much happening. so the white house has said we should expect him to talk about that on thursday and be forceful. of course, that comes after he was forceful today in pennsylvania. so we'll just see how much he

graham originally said, hey, i'm just doing my job as a senator. under the speech and debate clause. that's wrong. you have protection for talking on the floor for a few narrow things, not anything you do as the senator. in the district court said there is plenty of stuff you can talk about, go talk. the court of appeals this morning said maybe you should consider what he can talk about. he had an -- maybe you should consider it. they sent it back down, they're going to brief it, may be expedited, but they're going to brief it. decide that and then back up to the 11th circuit to the side. even if everyone's moving pretty quickly, that sure sounds like a couple of months until he has to raise his right hand. >> okay, that's what's happening in georgia. a bit of a delay. let's go to florida now. and the fbi searched mar-a-lago. what do you think the redacted affidavit there would look like once the department justice has submitted the revisions? >> they actually said, if we had to redacted it'll look like gibberish. i think it's clear that some of it

graham is in the middle of the pyramid.ints to one of the nonofficial things that graham can tell us. i wrote about this in our amicus brief. contacts that he had with the trump campaign. those are political, not official. they can give us some information on the activities of donald trump's campaign to try to illegitimately overturn the vote in georgia or not. we'll see once he gets asked the question. >> so it is a busy week. not just in georgia but florida as well. on thursday a florida magistrate judge will appear from the department of justice. d.o.j. would want to redact parts of the search affidavit before their would be a release. what would be the benefit if indeed it is released. it is so heavily redacted and people have to figure out a few words all out of context. >> it involve the same kind of compromise that i think the 11th circuit was hinting at when it called for partial quash. partial release, partially not. it the things we can still learn from the redacted affidavit are number one, what exactly does the

and like senator graham, he was 2016 decision not to charge hillary canton as a reference play. other republicans had different criticisms. >> well, my bet is criticism and i think the concern of most of the country, where is the transparency. we want to see. at one thing i have been aggressive about is look, if you're gonna take unprecedented action and rate of former presidents house, you better have a strategy for unprecedented transparency. >> that's new hampshire governor chris sununu. it's worth noting, one of the two unprecedented aspects of this investigation is just how much the government made public. sometimes under court order, but still the unprecedented aspect of it all is that a former president is at the center of a. and what he's saying about it in a supercharged political -- already banned one armed attack so far on the fbi. tonight, the fbi said that president biden will travel to philadelphia for a primetime address what's being billed as a continued battle for the soul of the nation. we'll talk more about that tonight, first, the latest on the documents and

graham was wondering if this is such a great story what are other peoplereporting it ? there was a moment in october i think just after you published this story where there was an enormous boost post that was when walter cronkite devoted a significant part of 2 broadcast to the watergate story. bob, talk about what the significance of that was to the reporting you were doing and to the post . >> what cronkite did was utterly amazing. they did a 15 minute segment and essentially it's put our stories in the front page of the washington post and it was the whole basis for the 15 minute part and then we had a second 15 minute part prepared was down to seven minutes because what bill bailey ... >> had been approached by colson. >> and an approach by colson means i hammer andscrewdriver and he folded a little bit but not completely . and sally quinn was saying that was just ecstatic about that story catherine brown and her memoirs says at that point the washington post is this local paper. walter put us on the map. and she's right. it was a local paper. you couldn't buy the w

lindsey graham is the follower. lindsey graham is the pilot fish. it's not that radical extremists are taking their marching orders implicitly or explicitly from lindsey graham. it does give even more of a green light to those around the former president to say, oh, if senators even now aren't leaving us behind, if they're piling on to what i say, it does encourage that to continue, as kathleen mentioned earlier. i think the danger isn't lindsay graham. the danger is what lindsey graham represents for those around the former president. >> david priest, kathleen belew, thank you both for your expertise tonight on this. >>> outfront now, elie honig, former assistant u.s. attorney. thanks for waiting. this could drop any moment from doj, they have to file this tonight. what do you expect from this filing that is, by the way, twice as long as the court initially said it should be. >> poppy, i think we'll see some serious straightening of the record here. it is quite unusual to request a double length brief. you don't do that because you want to throw in

graham. i'm curious because at the beginning of the taliban taking power, they were very keen to reassure the international community and they wanted legitimacy. they wanted aid. why did they make the decision and lunch? well yeah, i was, i was there and don't on the sidelines of the negotiations where the taliban were trying to reassure the national community as you say. but i think it's worth going back and looking at what exactly they promised. because even though they were trying to indicate that they are ready to have peaceful relations with the outside world and, and even sort of courting foreign investments, they were always very careful to say that what they call domestic issues. you know, issues of social policy, for example, in which they're extremely conservative. these are things to the outside world to not interfere with. and so i, i feel, you know, i've never myself, you know, use this phrase taliban to point out that you sometimes hear because in my view the taliban have always

but lindsey graham has his own exposure here.ican officials and state officials in georgia to ask about the same thing that donald trump was seeking to -- to press at the end of 2020. and that was, hey, isn't the election result in georgia in question. isn't it possible that there is fraud here as donald trump said in one call to the secretary of state. you know, just find me x number of votes, which was the difference between him winning and losing. now, lindsey graham made some calls on donald trump's behalf and he has to answer for what he was doing, what was his motive and what led him to make these calls and ultimately once he answers some of those questions where he has his own exposure, i know doubt believe he'll be asked as well what about donald trump. what did you and donald trump discuss? what did donald trump ask you to do? what was his motive, what was his goal, what was his hope and what did he convey to you? and that is really important for the georgia investigation, determining motive, intent and goal. what was sa

graham has one other iron in the fire. he told the appeals court he's planning on filing an appeal and asked that court if they would stay the lower court's ruling. again, push pause on this so he doesn't have to show up tuesday and so they can wait and see how this appeal plays out. the appeals court has not yet ruled on that ask from graham. the district attorney is interested in lindsey graham because he had a phone call with the georgia secretary of state raffensperger that felt like graham was asking him to throw away ballots in a way that could benefit donald trump, graham has denied that this was his intent but this is of course, just one of the things that the district attorney wants to get to the bottom of with senator graham. we will see if he manages to get out of that tuesday appearance. back to you guys. >> sara murray, thank you. >>> school districts across the country are grappling with a bus driver shortage. how officials are working around that and what they're doing to get more people into the driver's se

lindsey graham speaking to grey gowdy. >> i'll say this, if there's a prosecution of donald trump for mishandling classified information after the clinton debacle, which you presided over and did a hell of a good job, there would be riots in the street. >> the former judiciary chair did not follow that remark by saying, of course, such violence would be wrong. instead, he repeated and amplify whad he said. and the former president reposted several attacks on the fbi and a post of his own in which he appeared to be calling for an uprising within the bureau. quoting now, one of the great agents and others in the fbi going to say we aren't going to take it anymore. he also demanded to be declared, quote, the rightful winner, unquote, of the 2020 election. and like senator graham, he used the 2016 decision not to charge hillary clinton as a reference point. other republicans had different criticisms. >> well, again, my biggest criticism -- and i think the concern of most of the country -- is where's the transparency, right? we want to see it. and one thing i was very aggressive about was

lindsey graham knows what he said last night will inflame people and is dangerous. i hear threats of violence every single day, and i will say victor, if donald trump is indicted, there will be violence. i mean, look what happened on january 6th. but those threats of violence should never stop the pursuit of justice. that's what a country who believes in the rule of law does. lindsey graham knows that and it's shameful he didn't acknowledge that. >> ron, i want your quick thoughts on that. we have all seen this horror movie before as the congressman says. if you have to be worried about violence, and of course we are after seeing the foaming at the mouth mob that came out on january 6th, then that means donald trump can never be held responsible for the things that he's done wrong like the gross mishandling of these classified documents. >> the comments from lindsey graham are really, alisyn, another measure of how much political and social life in america is changing in the trump era. i mean, you know, it happens day by day, in a way that sometimes it's easy to los

. >>> bad news for lindsey graham and his attempts to dodge a subpoena to appear before the fulton county special grand jury. the one investigating republican efforts to overturn the election results in georgia. a federal judge refusing to put a hold on her ruling at the senator has got to appear. we are getting new information about concerns from inside the biden white house and the intelligence community about classified information taken to mar-a-lago. legal analyst and former federal prosecutor elliot williams, visiting professor of american law university, the author of how to think like a lawyer. and joining us, palm beach county state attorney dave ehrenberg. nice to see you here, we've got a law firm spread happening right now. who are we billing for this hour? we don't know, but look, it's just a week ago today that we learned from the court that trump was keeping top-secret, highly classified documents at mar-a-lago. we found out the doj interviewed two top white house lawyers about it and next week we may learn what's in the affidavit that made it so urgent for them to actually

today they are arguing senator graham's testimony could hold it up for months.ick, explain why this matters. >> john, there has been a flewry of legal activities surrounding whether or not lindsey graham is going to have to appear here. he made another attempt to put a stay on his subpoena to appear here next week. this is already after earlier this week, graham and his attorneys filed a stay in a lower court. the judge still hasn't made a decision one way or another, but we are hearing from the district attorney's office they had until 9:00 a.m. to respond, and they did and said it's crucial for graham to show up next week, and if he doesn't, it would delay their investigation for months. here's part of what was said. not simply because he is expected to provide information regarding additional sources of relevant information. they went on to say delaying the senator's testimony would delay his appearance and the entire category of relevant witnesses or information. the judge is going to have to make that decision sometime before tuesday when he's scheduled to

i suppose the first question is, can senator graham appeal? >> absolutely., has already indicated through his office they'll continue to challenge this. if so, they have to seek permission to challenge it in front of the 11th circuit court of appeals here in atlanta. >> this is coming as rudy giuliani has also been ordered by another atlanta area judge to appear in person, i believe, this wednesday before a special grand jury related to the investigation in attempts to overturn election results there in georgia. he has said he is not able to attend and cannot travel. what do you expect the judge to do in response to that? >> well, i think the judge in fulton county has already suggested to giuliani that you need to find a way to get down here. i think there's evidence that he's been able to travel to some extent, but regardless, the judge has already considered those arguments and said, you're going to have to testify. if you can't fly, drive. if you can't drive, get on a train. whatever you need to do to get down here. it's important to understand, these ar

lindsey graham of course knows better.i think this is just par for the course, which is just of course trump acolytes. graham has said -- they just don't want him to face accountability. and generally there's a lot of republican sane, that's the whole idea, they want permanent power, and never face accountability from courts, from the press, ultimately from voters. so there is a big principle behind it in this drive for autonomy. but graham should be saying is that people should turn out in droves at the polls, instead of this very dangerous, dangerous threat. i don't think this will deter a single person who is investigating trump, and ultimately deciding whether to bring charges. so it's people in that regard, but it's incredibly dangerous. he's a u.s. senator, multi term united states senator. he's been a counselor to republican nominee john mccain, the president donald trump, it's incredibly scary. >> the first thing david plouffe said right there is lindsey graham knows better. he does, david, so one of the world is h

about the evidence she has about but lindsey graham did?help that -- when he sees is going on, but i think the more important thing is these are state cases. no one can hope that a republican president is going to come into office and pardon somebody. if he is convicted, that's going to stick, and it's gonna stick for good. he he could try to cooperate. the other thing that the manhattan district attorney's office can do is if he doesn't cooperate voluntarily after the trial, they can just immunize him and put him in a grandeur in for some to testify, and then if he lies then, he will face additional time. so they have a lot of tools up their sleeve and they don't have to worry about the 2024 presidential election, and weisselberg doesn't have a possible out. so they're sort of things to come there. i wouldn't count the manhattan district attorney's office investigation just yet. and fulton is fascinating. lindsey graham, tense your question, is making any and all arguments. to me, it wreaks when we are seeing the former president, do which

i guess let's begin because this news just came in about lindsey graham. and john, i would ask you, i mean, it's interesting because elliott williams was saying last hour to us the speech and debate clause argument could kind of go either way here for graham. right? the question is were these calls to raffensperger about those ballots related to the 2020 election actually part of his job as a lendgislator or not, aa member of congress or not. >> i think you're right. i think it's going to be a close call, and it's going to be litigated for a while, back and forth between the district court and court of appeals. ultimately the united states supreme court is going to weigh in on some issues as relates to this -- these various trump investigations. and for everybody who's investigating trump, that's not a good thing because these investigations need to be with transparency and also with -- move forward quickly. when you have these various evidentiary disputes, it will slow down investigations. >> phil mudd, if i could turn to you on what we learned over the w

so, no, this is not a blanket immunity for lindsey graham. and he's lost this argument over and over so far in the courts. and i think he's going to continue to lose. on the delay thing, i think we have to -- i can't help but remind us of the other thing that's happening, which is the january 6th committee. that does have a deadline, right? we're just a few weeks away from the midterms. and if the house of representatives goes to the gop, that -- that effort will stop. and, so, delays have worked for those witnesses. but that's not the way the judicial system works. and it does go a bit slowly because there are rules of process, evidentiary rules, appeals, legal principals that are adhered to. and i think that's a good thing. and i think, you know, it can hold out for lindsey graham. >> again, the january 6th committee legislative functions. and there is a court of law, right, had a longer limitations on the very notion. let me bring you back in here, dave, because we're talking about what's going on here in georgia because obviously senator

this is lindsey graham's comments. i want your response. >> if they try to prosecute president trump from mishandling classified information, after hillary clinton set up a server in her basement, they literally will be riots in the street. >> donald trump posted graham's comments on social media, and then tonight graham followed up saying he rejected violence wasn't calling for violence. the thing is there's, real potential for violence especially after what we saw on january six. assist why the doj has to be so careful in all of this, but they are in a really dangerous position right now? >> yes, but also that's exactly what lindsey graham and the president trump supporters want us to think. they want this hesitation, that the idea of actually applying the law to former president trump would cause so much violence that donald trump should be allowed to escape without criminal penalty. it is an incredibly dangerous and corrosive action that they are pushing here. this is the equivalent of a mobster saying really nice

graham for miss panelling documents, lindsey graham knows it and shame on him. >> and the conspiracyth the irs, plainly no better. they know this is terrible if they'd done anything remotely like this they'd be in handcuffs as admiral stavridis said. to move this back to the segment three hours with ben collins talking about qanon, there are people out there in this country waiting for activated. they hear the calls from chuck grassley. they hear a call from lindsey graham. say this is war, time to fight back. and now donald trump is participating in that fight, retweeting or retruthing these -- i don't -- what the term -- i just made that up. but amplifying qanon, it might be cheap to the politicians who know better but it's real to the country. >> often in american politics, we think melodramatically, by that, we have clear and good examples of good and evil. this is the evil character. if we could only banish the evil character, we would all be good. we'd be absolved of our sins. and we need to see the back of donald trump's head and everything will be fine. but we slouch and that