she once worked, and harlan crow allows clarence thomas's mother to live rent free in a house that harlanome of the purchase price of that house directly into clarence thomas's pocket. harlan crow than fixed up the house, and how clarence thomas 's mother is living at no expense at all to clarence thomas, all thanks to the best friend a supreme court justice could ever have as long as that justice does not mind being exposed as the most corrupt supreme court justice the court has ever had. if there has been a more corrupt supreme court justice than clarence thomas, then that corruption has more remain secret. no such corruption has ever been made public. in an interview with the atlantic, published today, harlan crow expresses astonishment that anyone could ever be concerned about the integrity of clarence thomas. i have never, nor would i ever, think about talking about matters that relate to the judiciary with justice clarence thomas, crow said. he told the atlantic, they talk about thomas like the weather, and sports, and then decided to amend that after the interview in an email sayin

that was right wing billionaire and gop megadonor, harlan crow's response to send to judiciary democrats crow refused to give the committee information about his relationship with supreme court justice, clarence thomas. now, that romance came under scrutiny last month -- revealing justice thomas had allegedly taken and failed to disclose gifts, including luxury six figure jet setting troops around the world, all paid for by harlan crow's deep pockets. now, for the first time, we're hearing from harlan crow himself. in a new interview with the atlanta, crow told my next guest, quote, i have never, nor would i ever, think about talking about matters that relate to the judiciary with justice clarence thomas. adding that they, quote, talk about the kind of things friends talk about. joining me now is graham -- staff writer at the atlantic, who interviewed harlan crow about his relationship with justice thomas. graham, thank you so much for being here. i was fascinated by your piece. you know, access to harlan crow is not being given liberally, it's not like he sitting down and talk to the me

and flight records suggest harlan crow perhaps even flew justice thomas in for the swearing in on harlanate jet. but who's it judge getting sworn in? she's on the supreme court justice. judge ho is one of the three circuit court judges that will decide whether or not mifepristone remains in this country. if you understand in which he may be leaping on this matter take a listen to how he answered this question today. >> so in the preamble to the -- >> judge ho has called abortion a moral tragedy. he's down-played the judge's actions before the senate and defended justice thomas' acceptance of gifts from harlan crow, the guy who hosted judge ho's swearing in. today the senate judiciary subcommittee held a hearing on justice thomas' acceptance of all these things so we have something nice to talk about. dahlia, thank you for being here tonight. >> good to be with you. >> what happened in the senate subcommittee hearing today? >> it was fairly amazing because you had a judge, a now senior judge who was a reagan appointee who worked for all sorts of conservative causes essentially come forwar

as far as i can tell from the people we talk to, the way justice thomas has handled the harlan crow moment is, and the hundreds of thousands of dollars in gifts and apparently crow has bestowed upon them with these trips and other things, other gifts, it all starts to complicate the smell test there. it is not about ginni. it is about the very wealthy, very conservative, white people doing something that has never really been done with the supreme court justice, a very powerful, supreme court justice. i happen to know in trying to find out how many other trips were being taken by members of the supreme court. this is by any standards that anybody talks about, this is the largest case of the biggest example, the most fragrant example of the supreme court accepting gifts of the magnitude of hundreds of thousands of dollars, including $500,000 given by harlan crow to ginni's political action group she was running. she was paid $120,000 a year out of that. these are all things that are factual and accurate. i think, very different than anything michelle obama ever did or could conceive of. hos

according to maura porting from propublica, flight record suggests that harlan crow perhaps even flewearing in on harlan grows private jet. but who is the judge here who is getting sworn in? he's not a supreme court judges. judge ho is one of the series circuit court judges who will decide whether or not mifepristone will main accessible in this country, at least until the supreme court weighs in. and if you like an understanding of which way judge ho might be leaning on this matter, listen to the question he asked during a hearing today is the defense tried to ask why the fda expedited its approval of mifepristone. >> so in the preamble to the regulation -- >> on mother's day. we're celebrating illness? >> no, your honor. >> judge ho has called abortion immoral tragedy. his downplayed judge andrew kaz merrick sexes before the senate, and he is defended justice thomas's acceptance of gifts from harlan crow, the guy who hosted judge ho's swearing. in today's senate judiciary committee held a hearing about justice thomas's acceptance of all these nice things, so we have a lot to talk. a

coming up next, has harlan crow spent more time buying hitler's paintings and memorabilia harlan crow'sy committee said he will not testify to the committee about how much money he has spent on clarence thomas and is another example of why our next guest supreme court reporter dahlia lithwick reflect should all the supreme court the same way we cover congress. ♪ma ma ma ma♪ [clears throut] for fast sore throat relief, try vicks vapocool drops with two times more menthol per drop*, and the powerful rush of vicks vapors for fast-acting relief you can feel. vicks vapocool drops. fast relief you can feel. (psst psst) ahhhh... with flonase, allergies don't have to be scary spraying flonase daily gives you long-lasting, non-drowsy relief. (psst psst) flonase. all good. ♪ they need their lawn back fast and you need scotts turf builder rapid grass. it grows grass 2 times faster than just seed alone. giving you a stronger lawn. smell that freedom, eh? pick up a bag at lowe's today. feed your lawn. feed it. (water splashing) hey, dad... hum... what's the ocean like? ♪ are there animals living und

senator ron wyden wants to get information from harlan crow.fts, complied with all relevant federal tax and ethics laws. when the chairman of the finance committee is wondering about whether you are obeying tax law, they know what they're talking about there. this story now is filled with possible federal tax violations. >> oh, it's filled with tax violations. it's filled with conflicts of interest. it's filled with corruption. it's filled with ethics violations that any american would understand. i'm glad that senator wyden his starting to pursue this. the senate in the house need to haul harlan crow into a hearing to understand exactly what he did under earth to support clarence thomas, to support ginni thomas, to support clarence thomas's great nephew or whomever it is that he was the legal guardian for. and the american people deserve to understand the degree of intertwining finances between harlan crow and justice thomas. we know their relationship began after justice thomas reached the supreme court. so, this is not a pre-existing relatio

i'm waiting to find out he paid for colonoscopy surgery, something like that, because harlan crow runsntire family. >> this is what ron wyden tweeted, he's pushing for answers. he wants crow to answer questions. if he doesn't comply, i will explore other tools at the finance committee's disposal to shed more light on what appears to be blatant corruption. i think to that point, richard, it almost doesn't matter if crow specifically had cases before the court. he's a big donor to republicans like greg abbott, who banned abortion in his state. he's a big co -- a cofounder of club for growth which has gotten all of its asks from citizens united on, on this court. in the past three decades they publicly donated $14.7 million to candidates and committees, at least there 13 million went to republicans. they're getting republican outcomes. it doesn't need to be specific cases. and let's go back to scalia. justice scalia when he died, he literally was staying for free at a west texas hunting lodge owned by a business person whose company had recently had a matter before the supreme court. is t

harlan crow's office did respond to this story. t says but what it doesn't say. it is not a denial. crow's office saying, point-blank, that justice thomas never asked harlan crow to make payments. still, it's the latest in a series of revelations of drip, drip, drip discloures from the media that illustrate a secret and potentially improper financial relationship between a billionaire and conservative supreme court justice. it's where we begin the hour with some of our favorite reporters and friends. brian fallon is here. kim atkins stohr is here. barbara mcquade, former u.s. attorney, now law professor. when he thought he was out of here, we grab andrew weissmann to stay with us through this conversation. i want to say two things at the outset. paying for -- first of all, clarence thomas raising as a son a relative is an honorable thing. i don't know him, but it sounds like a nice thing to do. harlan crow paying for someone's tuition is an honorable thing. but that doesn't erase the public's right to know why clarence thomas didn't

harlan crow's ravishing supreme court justice clarence thomas and his relatives.ex texas lawyers continue to sound the alarm. much more of the katie phang show to come, so keep it right here on msnbc. msnbc want a worry-free way to kill bugs? zevo traps use light, not odors or chemical insecticides, to attract and trap flying insects. they work continuously so you don't have to. zevo. people-friendly. bug-deadly. this week is your chance to try any subway footlong for free. like the subway series menu. just buy any footlong in the app, and get one free. everyone loves free stuff chuck. can we get peyton a footlong? get it before it's gone. on the subway app. do you struggle with occasional nerve aches get it before it's gone. in your hands or feet? try nervive nerve relief from the world's number one nerve care company. nervive contains ala to relieve nerve aches, and b-complex vitamins to fortify healthy nerves. try nervive. and, try nervive pain relieving roll-on. paradontax blood when you brush could lead to worse over time. help stop the clock on gum disease n

as harlan crow spent more on clarence thomas that a costume to by adolf hitler's paintings, harlan crow'sight to ask questions of the man who owns the home that clarence thomas's mother currently lives in, and owns, and autographed copy of adolf hitler's book, mein kampf. harlan crow's lawyers say the senate judiciary committee has no jurisdiction over ethics of the supreme court, but that is, of course, false. the reason harlan crow cannot pay clarence thomas 1 million dollars, where $10 million to deliver a lecture this weekend at the massive library that harlan crow's texas home, where the hitler painting lives, along with the hitler teapot, and the hitler autographed copy of mein kampf, is that congress legislated a ban on lecture fees for supreme court justices in the same way that congress passed a ban on lecture fees for members of the house and senate. one of the countermeasures to republican billionaire control of the supreme court, is to expand the supreme court, the senate judiciary committee has a bill pending, and the committee, right now, tonight, to expand the supreme court

for his part, harlan crow is defending his actions. saying, in part, quote, harlan crow has long been passionate about the importance of quality education and giving back to those less fortunate, especially at risk youth. a friend of justice thomas also released a long statement on the matter, arguing it is a, quote, malicious story, shows nothing except for the fact that promises and crows are kind, generous, and loving people who tried to help this young man. the statement also confirms that harlan crow did pay for martin's first year at randolph meaghan academy and the year at his other boarding school in georgia. i should note, the friend who wrote that long statement is the man depicted in the center of this painting. harlan crow, far right, commissioned this artwork to commemorate the time spent at his adirondack resort every summer with justice clarence thomas, second from the right. now, let's just take a step back from a moment, consider the nature of this relationship between harlan crow and clarence thomas. call it a deer in

in the early 2000s he decided to send him to private high schools and harlan crow stepped in to foot ition at two different schools though the duration and total sum of those payments remains unclear. in a statement to propublica another long time friend of thomas' says harlan crow paid two years worth of admission to those schools which would amount to about $100,000 of undisclosed tuition gifts. while nbc has not independently verified this reporting crow responded to propublica with a statement about how he supported tuition for many kids, and he did not deny the reporting. now, crow wasn't the only person who offered thomas tuition money. remember there was that 2002 financial disclosure form where clarence thomas reported a $5,000 gift for mark martin's education. that gift was from the owners of a florida based pest control company. as propublica reports thomas was very careful in accepting and disclosing that contribution. according to two journalists who wrote a biography of thomas, at first thomas was worried about the propriety of the donation. he agreed to accept it if it w

you know what that means, that means there is more to say about clarence thomas and harlan crow and harlan crow refusing to reveal to senator whitehouse, as he politely requested, everything, all of the money that harlan crow spent on clarence thomas. we'll get the senator's latest attempt to get that information, when he joins us tonight. >> lawrence, he has been leading the charge on that in a way that i think is so critical, given the other silence from his colleagues on the other side of the aisle. i am eager to hear what he says. >> he has really stepped up. alex, there is a tweet that i want to read to you. this is from feisty granny, which is a handout that i think will probably available to you for years from now, -- she says, i never had doubts. this was not his first time dealing with the negotiations. he knows what he is doing. i ignored all the breathless reporting knowing that it would be okay. she is of course talking about president biden's handling at the debt ceiling negotiations. feisty granny is just much cooler than i am about this. i was worried for months and weeks. b

i think, look, i've met harlan crow. he's a wonderful person. i think that we should kind of get away from this assumption that the only time the money corrupts is when it's written by a person who prescribes to right leaning politics, right? i think money corrupts absolutely, and i think we should focus on that. >> we all agree on that. we just happen to have a face for this one and leonard leo because "the washington post" just tonight has published this new information about ginni thomas and how much money she has apparently taken from him and how he tried to expunge her name from some of the records, according to "the washington post." >> don't you think it's absolving clarence thomas from impropriety by politicizing this. we're not talking about it in any other case except the one that's in front of our face, and to have a supreme court justice have this type of proximity to someone like harlan crow and to be this deep in with him, that doesn't give you pause and make you feel a certain way? >> first of all, i don't think those words ever c

means that means there is more to say about clarence thomas and harlan crow and harlan crow refusing to -- as he is politely requested, everything, all of the money that harlan crow has spent on clarence thomas will get the senator's latest attempt to get that information. >> he has been leading to charge on that, it way that was so critical given the utter silence honors -- so i'm eager >> there's a tweet i want to redo, this is from feisty granny, which is a handle that i think will probably be available to you 40 years from now when you might want to use it. she says i never have doubts that this was not his first time dealing with negotiations. he knows what he's doing, i ignored all of the breathless reporting, knowing that it would be okay. she is, of course, talking about president biden's handling of the debt ceiling negotiations. feisty granny is just much cooler than i am about this, i was worried for months and weeks but it turns out the guesswork thing that i offered to the audience last week turned out to be pretty much what happened over the weekend. >> well, lawrence,

theth revelations regarding clarence thomas as two decades worth of vacations with harlan crow was reported by propublica's nonpartisan media outlets and the revelations that clarence thomas's mom had a home purchase by crow and neil gorsuch in the land deal that he failed to disclose and the land sold nine days after he is confirmed. that's something that democrats should have tried to figure outt by now but they didn't. it was politico that figured out. it's bad on senator kennedy's part to say that democrats are conflating a big scandal. this is independent reporting that they are reacting to. i would say yes there've been revisions of modifications to disclosure forms filed by the supreme court justices over the years but does havee largely entailed errors or omissions. with clarence thomas' situation he profited from the sale of a home 10tu years ago purchased by harlan crow. the disclosure forms, the little law on the books right now requiring certain things to be disclosed by justices requires any sort of real estate transaction to the list on the form so it's hard to imagine that he

let me read more of this harlan crow interview. it is extraordinary.w the press person under -- well, yeah, he will. this is terrible press work also. quote, the deal over thomas' mother's house seemed to baffle crow completely. he said he considers thomas' rise the kind of american story you dream about. he asked thomas if he could buy the house at fair market value and develop the area with eventually opening the house to the public to honor him. quote, i'm a real estate guy crow added. thomas's mother received an estate part of the transaction which is very common in real estate deals involving the elderly. an insignificant expense compared to the cost of the deal as a whole. only rich people describe the price of a house as insignificant and say it's common for the elderly and say i'm a real estate guy. and the bigger problem around all of this is they didn't tell anybody. brian fallon, what do you think of what we're learning from harlan crow himself? >> well, so much of what got said in that "atlantic" piece doesn't pass the laugh test. first and

hangs, we all see federal society leonard leo who the washington post between republican megadonor harlan crowupreme court justice. the stunning image captures the real story. not only are thomas and crow pictured here at crows luxurious adirondack resort, where this painting hangs, we all see federal society leonard leo who the washington post reports directed tens of thousands of dollars to the form of ginni thomas while keeping her name off billing paperwork. although msnbc news has not independently verified this. and then there's mark carlotta, the former general -- under donald trump and a lawyer for ginni thomas. he's also been writing defense of his whole arrangement. dispute resolution, of the university of georgia law school. the story of chummy-ness and, i would argue, corruption, told in this image, is not tangential to the story of our current 63 conservative super majority in the court and the dobbs decision that struck down roe v. wade and the many other dangerous decisions that have already been issued and will be issued by this court. it is all one story. to understand that st

and harlan crow stepped into which some of the bill. tins tuition at two different schools -- for the duration and the total sum of those payments remains unclear and in a statement to propublica, mark paoletta, another longtime friends of --, said crow paid two years worth of tuition at the schools, which would amount to about $100,000 of undisclosed to asian gives. while nbc has not independently verified this reporting, crow responded to propublica with the statement about he supported tuition for many kids, and he did not deny the reporting. now, crow was not the only person who offered thomas tuition money. remember, there was that 2002 financial disclosure form. and clarence thomas reported a 5000-dollar gift for mark martin's education. that give, that $5,000 a gift was, from earl and louise dixon, a the owners of a florida-based pest control company. as propublica reports, thomas was very careful in accepting in these closing that contribution. according to two journals who wrote a biography of, thomas at first thomas was worried

you obtained records of these payments by harlan crow. $6,200 for one month at a georgia boarding school. your report said crow paid for a full year at that school, and that came after he already paid for a year at another boarding school in virginia. so, how much money in total are we talking here? >> so, the exact total that crow paid for this child's tuition over the years isn't exactly clear, but you know, if thomas's friend, actually, after we published this story, came out and released a statement confirming that crow had paid for tuition at both of these schools, and he said that he paid for one year at each. and if you look at the tuition rates from that time, that would be about $100,000. >> $100,000. wow. and you note that two possible reasons justice thomas would not have to disclose these tuition payments. one is that his grand nephew likely does not qualify as a dependent child under a federal law, which defines that is, "a son, daughter, stepson or stepdaughter." thomas has said, "we're raising him as a son, but he is his gr

smell incredible... ♪ and leave your hair touchably soft and smooth. ♪ herbal essences enchts. >>> harlan crowsclosed gifts he has given to supreme court justice clarence thomas. crow attempted to explain away any accusations of corruption when it comes to his relationship with thomas, he says he's never tried to influence a case in the supreme court adding quote, it would be absurd to talk to justice thomas about supreme court cases because that's not my world. graham wood joins me now. congratulations on the interview. i just think that when you read the story about harlan crow and you realize what a curious mind he has, obviously, and we'll talk about what he has in his house, and the people that he's collected over his life, the i%1t,endship, but we understand a w wh i friends. that moment, graham, and there's also at the moment at the end where you are taken to look for some nazi memorabilia in his house because he also collects that, and he's kind of found to have misled you. can you explain? >> harlan crow, in addition to being a real estate magnet is an incredible collector of historic

former administrator at hidden lake academy in georgia and a bank statement for the information on harlan crow'ses, conservative lawyer mark, said on twitter that crow paid for a year at hidden lake for the then teen and for the first year he spent at another private boarding school. randolph macon academy in virginia. he says thomas never asked crow to pay the tuition. calls the propublica report an effort to smear justice thomas, and he argues thomas didn't have to report the tuition payments because the grandnephew didn't qualify as a legal dependent. but a few years earlier, thomas did report tuition help from another friend. >> these arguments that the child was not a dependent are beside the point. this tuition payment was a gift to justice thomas. he has a legal obligation to disclose. he's disclosed tuition payments before. he needed to do it again here. >> reporter: harlan crow's office told cnn that he and his wife help many young people with tuition and "it's disappointing that those with partisan political interests would try to turn helping at-risk youth with tuition assistance into

harlan crow has regular interests before the supreme court. he funds groups that are making claims before the court. he is part of a vast right-wing infrastructure seeking to influence the court. so, maybe there is an argument to be had, if it is a friend who has zero interests that you are potentially rendering a decision on. but that's not what was going on. your what was going on here with clarence thomas is somebody that wanted the court to act on his company's behalf, befriended supreme court justice, funneled millions of dollars to that justices family. every american knows that that is out of bounds. that is why seven or eight out of ten americans think that clarence thomas should be held accountable for what he has done. >> well, not just accountable. many americans would say he should resign. massachusetts democratic senator -- your colleague in the senate -- ed markey today, tweeted, quote, clarence thomas must resign. do you agree with him? >> i haven't called on thomas to resign. i am not sure how helpful that would be. i think our

host: barbara brings up harlan crow.he reporting of pro publica on the lavish gifts and vacations harlan crow gave to justice thomas and ginni thomas over the years. how does your documentary deal with those reports? guest: essentially, clarence thomas -- someone said this in our conversation this morning here. clarence thomas is in the company --let's do it this way. as a child, he viewed the world and himself in it as untouchable in america. he has been working against climbing out of that untouchable status to get the equivalent of the highest caste in america. if we had -- what that meant in his life experience, you had to become extremely friendly with, or in his case, with the wealthy men. he gets there after's confirmation readings. he stops reading the new york times, the washington post, and relies for information about the world on two people. his wife, ginny, who tells him what is happening and what her take is. we know what her take is, very binary, black-and-white, evil and good. this might surprise a lot of

emerges about justice clarence thomas' secret financial dealings with republican activist billionaire harlan crowd that thomas failed to report frequent trips paid for by crow, including aboard his private yacht and jet. thomas also failed to disclose he sold property to him, including a home where his mother now lives rent free. in addition, he paid for the tuition of his grandnephew which is over $6,000 a month. the washington post reports conservative judicial activist leonard leo arranged for clarence thomas's wife, ginni thomas, to be paid at least $80,000 dollars for consulting work over a decade ago. without mentioning her name. month later, the nonprofit filed an amicus brief in shelby county v. holder, in which thomas cast the deciding vote in a 5-to-4 ruling that gutted the voting rights act of 1965. despite these revelations, the supreme court chief justice john roberts has refused because to look into ethics rules for justices. then we have the case of his wife adding over $10 million for being a headhunter for elite firms. these law firms often have cases before the supreme court. we

i don't want them to be harlan crow's next project.onger messages right now will have a good effect for generations. >> -- ill-defined but do you think we are getting there? >> i think we're getting close. i think there are -- there was the first ever bipartisan supreme court ethics bill in the senate. the first supreme court ethics bill was introduced to the house about ten days ago, and it's very basic. it says code of conduct for the justices, enforceable with an ethics officer and, by the way, if there is another major league, don't do a stupid internal investigation that does not find anything. the dead part of the bill is higher the fbi or nsa to help you out. >> there are people that know how to do these things. gabe roth, you've been on this longer than anyone else. thank you for your time. emma brown, thank you for that reporting. we appreciate time tonight. coming up, donald trump has a very important decision to make this weekend before his civil rape trial resumes in eight new york city courtroom on monday. we'll tell you w

in that room there are standing in, it's a private library and home of harlan crow.propublica, flight records suggest, perhaps even justice clarence thomas in for this private,? . . ,,. >>? >> -- >>,? >>,. >>,. . -- . ,. . >>. >>? >>,,,,,,. ,. ,. ,,,,. ,,,. . >>,,,,,? >>,,. ,,,. . ,,. >>,,,. ,, the when we called he and why because who we a minorville this man is involved in a lot of tucker's a very conservative justices, and let us talk about jim who made clear that he is not a fan of stone or some parts of bodily autonomy when it comes to pregnancy. what do you expect for the fifth circuit and him on this issue in particular? >> i think, in some sense, we saw the dry run where they initially, the fifth circuit initially ruled on judge merrick's order and they said, will set the clock back to 2016, and we'll just pretend that what judge kacsmaryk did was reasonable. in some sense, they got spanked by the u.s. supreme court that did not let the state go into effect, so what we saw today, my colleague mark stern as they put it well, but they were acting out. they were

host: barbara brings up harlan crow.he reporting of pro publica on the lavish gifts and vacations harlan crow gave to justice thomas and ginni thomas over the years. how does your documentary deal with those reports? guest: essentially, clarence thomas -- someone said this in our conversation this morning here. clarence thomas is in the company --let's do it this way. as a child, he viewed the world and himself in it as untouchable in america. he has been working against climbing out of that untouchable status to get the equivalent of the highest caste in america. if we had -- what that meant in his life experience, you had to become extremely friendly with, or in his case, with the wealthy men. he gets there after's confirmation readings. he stops reading the new york times, the washington post, and relies for information about the world on two people. his wife, ginny, who tells him what is happening and what her take is. we know what her take is, very binary, black-and-white, evil and good. this might surprise a lot of

harlan crow reportedly gives $500,000 to a political nonprofit started by ginni thomas. co institute crow in 2011. 2012, conservative activists leonard leo instructs kelly and conaway to -- give ginni thomas another $25,000. he says the paperwork should include no mention of ginni, of course. 2014, thomas selves three pieces of property. he co-owns to crow. including his mother's house. despite the law outlining that such real estate sales must be disclosed. thomas doesn't do so. what my panel is back with me. carol, that was kind of the timeline we put together. let's start with this letter from harlan crow's attorneys to the senate finance committee this week. where he basically doesn't want to cooperate. how solid do you think there are legal rationale for ignoring the panel's inquiries. this is a senate congressional committee. >> i think ultimately, they would win on this front. the weird thing is that ultimately, that issue could end up going up in front of the supreme court. that's what's so uncomfortable an awkward about this entire scenario. this is all about sta

in response to a story detailing undisclosed gifts and trips paid for by republican mega donor harlan crowe statement admitting the reporting was true, and brushing it off as something friends do. first of all, this friendship started after clarence thomas was already confirmed to the supreme court, he was a supreme court justice already, and harlan crow gave him a ride on his private plane. i don't know about you, but i can't say i know many people who pay for their family vacations totaling half 1 million dollars, but okay. and then there was conservative activists letter leo's response in the washington post that he directed under the table payments to thomas is with ginni thomas, emphasizing that the paperwork should have no mention of ginni of course. of course! leo did not deny the story, telling the host knowing how disrespectful, militias, and gossipy people can be, i have always tried to protect the privacy of justice thomas and ginni. sham on all of you all that for gossiping about shady payments to the wife of a supreme court justice, outrageous. there were the responses to the

to the left of clarence is harlan crow. in the middle under the sculpture is mark paletto, a close family friend of the thomases, who worked on the trump administration, including preparing two of the court hearings. the man in the glasses is leonard leo, who funneled all that money to ginni, and the man in the red shorts is a former law clerk to thomas. he took up a case in 2008 before the supreme court, and guess what, he won that case, and clarence thomas did not recuse. your thoughts on this court, which does seem to be made up of a bunch of rich guys and their friends, a bunch of friends of rich guys, i should say. >> so here's what shocks me about all this. you know, when i take white house staffers out to coffee, they won't let me pay for their latte. you know, i used to work at a think tank. we had hill staffers come over sometimes for lunch meetings and they would always ask, how much did this lunch cost? the reason why is because it's more than $25, they're not allowed to eat it. like, everyone in government has s

he was referring to the cascade of gifts from harlan crow over the years. the questions about the payments. harlan crow did not dispute the facts of the reporting in a statement, instead fo notion thg been passion about the importance of quality education, and giving back to those less fortunate. and there is your point for the washington post that further complicates matters for justice thomas. quote, no mention of ginni, of course, that's what conservative judicial activists leonard leota gop pollster kellyanne conway after directing her to bill a nonprofit group he advises, and use that money to secretly pay ginni thomas, who is of course the wife of clarence thomas. that is according to documents reviewed by the post. nbc news has not independently verify those documents. but according to the post, conway's firm sent that nonprofit a 25,000 dollar bill that day. per ellen heard leo's instructions, the bill listed the purpose of the payment as supplement for constitutional polling and opinion consulting. in a statement to the post, leonard leo said that

raised him as a son, and so for high school thomas sent the child to private boarding school, and harlan crowy picked up the tab. and for context, i mean, we've previously reported that crow's unusual role helping fund the lives of thomas and his family including the private jet flights, the international yacht vacations, actually paying him and his relatives money in an undisclosed real estate deal, and this adds a whole new dimension to that. >> and according to your reporting, this goes back to 2008, the tuition payments specifically, when this relative was in high school. your team as you mentioned has uncovered not just this but you've over the course of several weeks reported on private yachts, luxurious vacations, real estate transactions. i think the big question a lot of us are wondering is why? why was crow providing all of this? do you have any sense of that answer? >> well, we have what crow and thomas have said, which is that this is just a friendship. we are dear friends. we broke our first story about luxury travel, crow said that he's extended this sort of hospitality to his m

harlan crow owned half the inventory.can all see clarence thomas, but he belongs to billionaire harlan crow. and that's what an nft is. [laughter] [applause] everybody has some scandals. like the challenging times we live in, i look around this room and see people who are hard-working. many of you i don't think you should be working that hard. we should be inspired by the people in france, they rioted when the retirement went up to age -- two years to 64. they rioted because they didn't want to work until 64. meanwhile, in america we have an 80-year-old man begging us for four more years of work. begging. baking. -- begging. [laughter] let me finish the job, that's not a campaign slogan, that's a plea. i do wish you the best of luck on the campaign trail. you have a lot of things -- a lot of hurdles. we know about the documents, there's been no scandal more damaging than the scandal of if -- is joe biden awake? say what you want with our president -- when he wakes up from that nap. work gets done. he might doze off but th

in a statement, harlan crow and his wife did not deny the story.aying they have long been passionate about giving back to -- youth. joining me now, to discuss, is ian millhiser, senior correspondent at vox, where he focuses on the supreme court. he also wrote the book, the agenda, how the republican supreme court is reshaping america. okay, ian, the post reports that leo instructed -- republican pollster kellyanne conway to bill a nonprofit he advices advises and then give that money to ginni thomas. and, that same nonprofit filed a brief in to the supreme court in a huge voting rights case. what is your take away here? what are your thoughts? >> yeah, can i have any other take away other than the most obvious one? i mean, how corrupt does this guy have to be at this point? you have got leonard leo, who is sort of the sven golly svangali -- paying for his mother's home, paying for his devoto son and his grand nephew tuition. giving these random gifts like a 19,000 dollar bible that used to belong to frederick douglass. if this were any other govern

viewers know i like harlan crow.say i trust the citizens of this country so i will disclose my connection and that is that. as for going forward, i confess i am a little concerned about congress doing it. a, they are polarized. b, i'm not concerned about their own ethical standards. they go diving for dollars and they do nasty fundraising. i do think the court should take advantage of this moment and say , ok, there is a problem here and we will put disclosure in and make it clear things like a gift from leonard lilo -- leonard leo, who unlike roman crow, actually has business before the court. it is an opportunity to be clear and make stricter rules and make the court a more trusted institution. geoff: in the senate hearing this past week, it made clear a code of conduct if congress does act, it will not be a bipartisan congressional effort because republicans accused democrats of casting doubt on the court because the court has not been ruling in democrats' favor. how might this play out? >> [laughter] my reaction

harlan crow mentioned in the pro public story, we have a section where we talk about his relationship with the justice in which he was trying to fund a library that is getting renovated. he offered to fund it. they would rename the library in the name of clarence thomas. it is how the justice kind of learned and saw the world. an avid book reader. very dear to him. harlan crow thought we can renovate the library, but it became a very controversial, politically charged issue. ultimately, a lot of protests against renaming the library. there was a compromise to rename a wing, a section of it. he financed part of it. not at the same level he would have had he been willing to rename the library. >> has it been a culture shock to be out here after being on the east coast? >> i love it, i'm an outdoor person, i love the walks and the hikes, the ocean. it is invigorating out here. it helps spur the creativity. i understand why we say the creativity is -- it is a creative place, and i love being out here. >> you had two years to define the role of the los angeles times in the southland. what

and then what also emerged this week is harlan crow had also helped pay for the private education ofbeen living with justice thomas and his wife ginnie. so again, it's just the idea of how much money is flowing to justice thomas and why? do these influential benefactors believe they can get something from him, or is it purely out of friendship as they all insist? buzz it does raise the question of how it might affect the case, anderson. >> friendship is one thing, but you would think supreme court justices wouldn't need a -- you know, a yearly, you know, spread sheet reminder or computer program with ethics rules on it for them to click off on to prove they understand ethics. you would think of all people that supreme court justices would have the highest ethical standards without being forced to or prodded to or having to be reminded of. according to "the washington post" while arranging this payment, leonard leo instructed kellyanne conway, quote, no mention of ginny". leo said they were just protecting the privacy of thomas and mrs. thomas. conway condemned "the washington post" f

senate kemp democrats want to k what gift harlan crow gave to justice thomas. judiciary committee sends this letter to crow, what they want is an itemized list of anything valuable, not just that he got from harlan crow, but his family and other justices, right? what can you tell us? >> reporter: yeah, exactly. this is the judiciary committee asking for more information about the things that they do know, the things that have been reported on publicly, in the instance of harlan crow and justice thomas. but, it is hard to ask for the things that you don't know exist. and that's partly why we're watching this senate judiciary committee or democrats from that committee move forward in trying to make the court be more transparent in things of this nature. so what they're asking for from harlan crow in this instance is everything from an itemized list of all transportation and lodging to real estate transactions to the more obvious, gifts and donations. all of those sort of run afoul of the ethics that this committee thinks the supreme court should uphold, but doesn

he was referring to the cascade of gifts from harlan crow over the years. payments. hurling crow did not dispute the facts of the reporting in the statement, it instead focuses on the boat that he has long been passionate about the importance of -- education in giving back to those less fortunate. then there is reporting from the washington post that further complicates matters for justice thomas. quote, no mention of genie, of course. that is what conservative -- told the -- kellyanne conway after directing her to building a nonprofit group that he advises to use that money to secretly pay ginni thomas, who is of course the wife of clarence thomas. that is according to documents reviewed by the post nbc news has not independently reviewed those documents but according to the post, conway's firm sent a non profit a 25,000 dollar bill that day. as per leonard leo's instructions, -- supplement for constitution polling in opinion consulting. in a statement to the post, -- ginni tomas's work had nothing to do with the courts, adding, quote, knowing how disrespe